Live Gig Volume Discussion

[rupe]

Stage volume while gigging is an old subject but one with a few rather new solutions. In the past I was more or less the guy who set my amp how I wanted it and made everybody else deal with it. I no longer look at that "method" as a viable option and would like to come up with a way to manage my stage volume while still getting everything out of my amp.

The two main solutions that I'm weighing are Clearsonic plexiglass panels or using an iso-cab such as the Rivera Silent Sister (attenuators are out...my new amp simply doesn't play nice with them).

What are your thoughts, experiences, stories, etc regarding these stage volume reduction techniques? Advantages/disadvantages? Any other solutions that I might want to look into?

 

[tripstan]

I use to point my cab backwards or to the side away from the band and audience. It works pretty good but doesn't always do the job, sometimes it's still to loud other times it's not loud enough. I'm also not a huge fan of attenuators. So now I use a volume pedal in the series loop of my amp. Works great! I can crank my masters and use the volume pedal in the loop as an attenuator. Lowers the volume without changing the tone. Problem is if your not using an amp with a series loop you can't do that.

 

[Gainzilla]

Its a fine line for sure and God knows that Ive crossed it more than my share. Theres something to be said about feeling it as well as hearing it...

 

[billm408]

IME, drums dictate stage volume. I need to hear myself above the drums w/o overpowering them.
On the rare occasion when we get to play a bigger stage with good monitor/side fill mixes, I make an effort to keep my volume down a bit to allow the soundman some headroom. As long as I'm pushing the tubes enough to get some saturation and the tone I want. Not a fan of attenuators and have never tried a plexi shield. But then again, for the dive bars we play, we only mic the kick drum and vocals.

 

[reverymike]

I've been round and round with this issue. Lately, I turn my cabinet backwards and crank the fuck up. Works pretty good and doesn't take the head off the soundguy or people up front.

You have to be loud enough to get the proper interaction between your guitar and amp, as well as at a reasonable volume in regards to the drums. The thing I HATE, is when I turn down to appease the sound guy, and then after the first set, people are coming up to me and saying that they can't hear the guitar at all. That pisses me off. If you're a soundguy and make that demand that the guitarists need to turn down, then you better make sure they're in the mix and able to be heard.

For YEARS, I was the guy who made sure I tried to stay at a reasonable as to work 'with' the soundman. Eventually, I got a little tired of people saying they couldn't hear me. So, lately, I am a little louder than what I think the soundguy wants. . .and I let him deal with it. The results have actually been very good. Many times, a soundman will do a line check on the instruments and then set the volume based on what that instrument sounds like by itself. Then, when the band starts playing, it ends up being too quiet.

 

[Gainzilla]

The thing I HATE, is when I turn down to appease the sound guy, and then after the first set, people are coming up to me and saying that they can't hear the guitar at all. That pisses me off. If you're a soundguy and make that demand that the guitarists need to turn down, then you better make sure they're in the mix and able to be heard.

For YEARS, I was the guy who made sure I tried to stay at a reasonable as to work 'with' the soundman. Eventually, I got a little tired of people saying they couldn't hear me. So, lately, I am a little louder than what I think the soundguy wants. . .and I let him deal with it.

Hit the nail on the head for me and my experiences, Especially the part in bold

 

[ShomerShabbos]

I've been round and round with this issue. Lately, I turn my cabinet backwards and crank the fuck up. Works pretty good and doesn't take the head off the soundguy or people up front.

You have to be loud enough to get the proper interaction between your guitar and amp, as well as at a reasonable volume in regards to the drums. The thing I HATE, is when I turn down to appease the sound guy, and then after the first set, people are coming up to me and saying that they can't hear the guitar at all. That pisses me off. If you're a soundguy and make that demand that the guitarists need to turn down, then you better make sure they're in the mix and able to be heard.

For YEARS, I was the guy who made sure I tried to stay at a reasonable as to work 'with' the soundman. Eventually, I got a little tired of people saying they couldn't hear me. So, lately, I am a little louder than what I think the soundguy wants. . .and I let him deal with it. The results have actually been very good. Many times, a soundman will do a line check on the instruments and then set the volume based on what that instrument sounds like by itself. Then, when the band starts playing, it ends up being too quiet.

This.


Turn your rig up to where its consistent with the drums, and that's that. You're the artist. You shouldn't intentionally be a pain in the ass, but its your first priority to turn in a great performance. Pleasing the tech crew is secondary. If you're not comfortable you can't do that.

 

[supersonic]

I've been thinking about putting a guitar speaker into a foldback wedge and putting it in front of me, as well as using my cab.

 

[glassjaw7]

The thing I HATE, is when I turn down to appease the sound guy, and then after the first set, people are coming up to me and saying that they can't hear the guitar at all. That pisses me off. If you're a soundguy and make that demand that the guitarists need to turn down, then you better make sure they're in the mix and able to be heard.

For YEARS, I was the guy who made sure I tried to stay at a reasonable as to work 'with' the soundman. Eventually, I got a little tired of people saying they couldn't hear me. So, lately, I am a little louder than what I think the soundguy wants. . .and I let him deal with it.

Hit the nail on the head for me and my experiences, Especially the part in bold

Yep, exactly. Been there myself. Good thing is that we've corrected this by getting a great new sound guy (has tech'd and ran audio for Alice Cooper, Frampton, Puddle of Mudd, etc) and he knows when to boost my leads and gets a great FOH sound.

...bad news is we're not on good terms at the moment. He wants to manage us and he asked for a permanent contract/agreement and rights to creative control and 20% of everything...forever. Of course, we said no and now he's being a bitch and doesn't want to run sound for us. Said he has "two other bands he's gonna blow up" Riiiight.

Anyway, back to the volume issue-I always get my amp good and loud. If I'm a bit quiet at soundcheck, I'll bump it up later and let the soundguy figure it out. As mentioned above, there is something to be said for feeling as well as hearing the tone. And besides, our rhythm player plays way too damn loud so I don't have a choice!

 

[kissmyace]

Getting over the drums is always the issue, for smaller places. Our drummer recently got electric drums, for the smaller gigs and its like heaven. The whole stage volume is down and everyone (but the drummer) loves them. Larger gigs get the real drums and every one has to turn up

 

[thiswaythatway]

For YEARS, I was the guy who made sure I tried to stay at a reasonable as to work 'with' the soundman. Eventually, I got a little tired of people saying they couldn't hear me. So, lately, I am a little louder than what I think the soundguy wants. . .and I let him deal with it. The results have actually been very good. Many times, a soundman will do a line check on the instruments and then set the volume based on what that instrument sounds like by itself. Then, when the band starts playing, it ends up being too quiet.

Whenever I had that problem I found that it wasn't volume, it was the direction the cab was pointing. First thing is point the cab AWAY from the sound guy. Actually, before that the first thing to do is buy the sound guy a beer and tell him NASCAR rules and you'll be good to go.

 

[guitarmike]

I've been thinking about putting a guitar speaker into a foldback wedge and putting it in front of me, as well as using my cab.

I do something like that at church. the cabinet points away from the congregation and i have a tubeworks vertical 2x1 aiming at me for sustain and feedback. Works great.

 

[squank]

For YEARS, I was the guy who made sure I tried to stay at a reasonable as to work 'with' the soundman. Eventually, I got a little tired of people saying they couldn't hear me. So, lately, I am a little louder than what I think the soundguy wants. . .and I let him deal with it. The results have actually been very good. Many times, a soundman will do a line check on the instruments and then set the volume based on what that instrument sounds like by itself. Then, when the band starts playing, it ends up being too quiet.

Whenever I had that problem I found that it wasn't volume, it was the direction the cab was pointing. First thing is point the cab AWAY from the sound guy. Actually, before that the first thing to do is buy the sound guy a beer and tell him NASCAR rules and you'll be good to go.

LOL

 

[mentoneman]

i'm very aware of stage volume, both as a foh engineer and a player who uses a 100 watt head and 4x12 on stage less than 3 feet away from a steinway concert grand.

i face both the 4x12 dry cab and the 1x12 tech 21 wet cab towards me.

as i turn up the amp, i re-eq it to balance low end because as i've said before, the cab becomes more resonant in the lows as the overall volume increases, and the less bass you can get away with the better for the overall mix, and the best amps i've owned/played don't rely on the bass control being hot in order to achieve a nice tone and feel. i love using my FFT iphone app from studio six digital to monitor the overall frequency response and volume.

i normally hover around 90db standing 3-4 feet from the front of my cabs, but occasionally take it up a bit to the 95-100 zone depending on the situation. i routinely put the tech 21 on an amp stand and cover the open back with something, or put it on the enhancer tilt back stand, to reduce bleed.

finally i use a hotplate because turning up the power tubes not only provides a natural compression which makes chords and single notes more consistent in volume, for me it allows me to reduce front end gain and get clearer tones, and get a better balance of sustain and smooth speaker breakup.

 

[steve_k]

Put an ear plug dispenser at the front of the stage.

 

[pjrake]

I'm thinking of using a 212 MESA cab (instead of the 412 I have now), and getting the FUCHS attenuator to tame the amp a bit onstage.

I too have the same problem; in the studio before the rest of the band arrives I can reach that "sweet" spot and the amp sounds amazing, but it's just TOO loud.

PJ

 

[mindseye]

For small places where volume is a issue I give the sound guy a direct out off my AxeII then bring up my cab a little to fill out the monitor mix.

bigger places I give the sound guy a choice of my AxeII or the 609 that's permanently mounted in my cab road case, they usually run a mix of both and it sounds great in FOH.

Our singer usually goes out in the crowd area during sound check to make sure our stage volume is even across me the other guitar player and bass dood..........all this has been working pretty good for us, YMMV

 

[pjrake]

For small places where volume is a issue I give the sound guy a direct out off my AxeII then bring up my cab a little to fill out the monitor mix.

bigger places I give the sound guy a choice of my AxeII or the 609 that's permanently mounted in my cab road case, they usually run a mix of both and it sounds great in FOH.

Our singer usually goes out in the crowd area during sound check to make sure our stage volume is even across me the other guitar player and bass dood..........all this has been working pretty good for us, YMMV

How do you tame the Diezel?

Awesome setup, btw!

PJ

 

[Badronald]

I'm likely going to start gigging for the 1st time with my Triple Rec within a few month's and I'm afraid it's going to rape the p.a. Should be interesting.

 

[mindseye]

For small places where volume is a issue I give the sound guy a direct out off my AxeII then bring up my cab a little to fill out the monitor mix.

bigger places I give the sound guy a choice of my AxeII or the 609 that's permanently mounted in my cab road case, they usually run a mix of both and it sounds great in FOH.

Our singer usually goes out in the crowd area during sound check to make sure our stage volume is even across me the other guitar player and bass dood..........all this has been working pretty good for us, YMMV

How do you tame the Diezel?

Awesome setup, btw!

PJ

Thanks!!!!
It's pretty much my dream rig that has taken me a long time to put together.
The MV on the Diezel is just awesome IMHO, I dont really feel like my tone sucks when its down low....Its just a really great amp that works so well for me and what I do.