Make a 20w amp sound big/closer to 100w

[Akira69]

So i have a runt 20 and notice it sounds alittle small, not much low end. I thought it could just be the runt but the jj jr also sounds the same. I have direct profiles of the be 100 and jj they are alittle scooped with more bass by comparison. So eq in fx loop then match by ear to get close to the big brothers. Question is what is it in the power section that makes such a big difference? Power tubes?

 

[napalmdeath]

EL84's.

 

[ZEN Amps]

Question is what is it in the power section that makes such a big difference? Power tubes?

Transformers and tubes primarily. An EQ won't help.

Punchy, high headroom EL34 and 6L6 power sections have been lauded for decades on end for good reason. Despite what the lunchbox crowd claim, there's no substitute for big brass balls if you know your stuff.

 

[BeZo]

Bass frequencies take more power to produce. This is why a bass amp is 300 watts to a 100 watt guitar amp (tube). Some amps try to compensate by having a bassier tone stack, but low end still takes juice to push out.

Side note: This is why singers have to move away from the mic to hit high notes. The diaphragm and lungs are a set system, and belt out the same power every time. However, since high notes take less energy to produce, they come out louder with the same power behind them. So I can eat the mic to do low guttural growls and yelling, but get a foot back to do hair metal bullshit.

 

[thegame]

Slave the smaller amp into a Freyette Power Station

 

[psychodave]

So i have a runt 20 and notice it sounds alittle small, not much low end. I thought it could just be the runt but the jj jr also sounds the same. I have direct profiles of the be 100 and jj they are alittle scooped with more bass by comparison. So eq in fx loop then match by ear to get close to the big brothers. Question is what is it in the power section that makes such a big difference? Power tubes?

The output power is what makes the difference. Most of us can hear a difference between a 50 watt and 100 watt Marshall. An EQ in the loop will certainly help, but there is no substitute for actual power.

You could also use a bigger speaker cab to help compensate.

All of this said, there are some mods in the depth section that could help you get more bottom end. I believe Friedman uses a 220k/.0047uf fixed depth circuit? You could always try swapping out the 220k resistor for a 500k or use a 1 meg pot. This will add a little more to the sound.

 

[panhead]

Slave the smaller amp into a Freyette Power Station

Will still sound like El84`s

 

[ZEEGLER]

I just sold my Runt for this reason. Sounds thin and too bright. The only way to get a half decent tone out of it is to turn the bass way up, and turn the treble and presence way down. Even the mids sound too bright. I've tried different speakers, different guitars, etc. I haven't tried an EQ in the loop, but it's too late now because it will be gone this evening.

 

[panhead]

The midrange freq of El84`s are very prevalent and on the bright side. Crank a vintage Vox ac30 and you will see that the percieved loudness verges on a 100 watt marshall

 

[harddriver]

Transformers and tubes primarily. An EQ won't help.

Punchy, high headroom EL34 and 6L6 power sections have been lauded for decades on end for good reason. Despite what the lunchbox crowd claim, there's no substitute for big brass balls if you know your stuff.

Could not have said it better myself...............

 

[harddriver]

Slave the smaller amp into a Freyette Power Station

If you like the tone of the Runt 20 then Slaving it into a big wattage power amp would be the only answer to give it more of large amp low end punch and headroom. Tube power amps might be your better choice but the Matrix GT1000FX is an excellent Mosfet power amp. The Fryette PS2 or the PS100 that have an adjustable depth mod and presence controls would be invaluable set your low end and high responses to your liking.

As Psychodave mentioned you could add either a depth mod pot ro a fixed depth mod to add lowend to your Runt 20 but without big power and larger transformers by itself it will never truly punch like a 50 or 100 watt amp. The tone may be great but you are experiencing the limitations of small wattage amps.

 

[Akira69]

I just sold my Runt for this reason. Sounds thin and too bright. The only way to get a half decent tone out of it is to turn the bass way up, and turn the treble and presence way down. Even the mids sound too bright. I've tried different speakers, different guitars, etc. I haven't tried an EQ in the loop, but it's too late now because it will be gone this evening.

yep to me sounds terrible without eq in loop. I have pres 6 treb 6 mid 5 and bass 8, then eq in loop -3/4db 800, -1db 400, this make a huge difference, Until i can afford the big boy thus will have to do. But it still sounds better then anything from the kemper