Mesa Triaxis vs Fractal AxeFx Ultra

[TrueTone500]

So I picked up a Mesa Triaxis last night from a Craigslist ad. Tons of cool gear showing up locally, since eBay extended their dispute time to 6 months. I was going to get a used AxeFx Ultra, but a friend told me to get the Triaxis, since it has the TX4D board in it. I haven't played through it yet, but I'm curious to hear from the vets who have experience with both units.

 

[rlord1974]

I'm curious to hear your thoughts. I had one back in the early 90's but dumped it when I moved back to heads around '95. Recently been thinking of picking another one up.

Plug in and report back already! ;-)

 

[dpeterson]

Well you have the good one.. if it has the recto board, lead 1 red should be totally usable. Sold mine, just now getting the axe to sound what i remember my triaxis sounding like. Had to push to get the lead 1 red modeled.

 

[TrueTone500]

I've owned 2 x Mark IIC+'s, DR, Mark IV, Mark III, Quad, and Mark V... Out of these, my Mark IIC+'s, DR, and the Quad were my favorites. DR was great, but mine (according to Mesa) was a prototype that Mesa refused to repair. Mesa said; "That amp wasn't suppose to be sold!" Whatever... The issue I ran into with the stand-alones, was that I couldn't use them to their full potential where I lived. Their sweet-spot was much too loud, and attenuators would not give me the same vibe I was getting at higher volumes.

I've only put a little over an hour on the Triaxis, and I am blown the f--k away! Not just with the gain tones, but the clean tones as well. I'm still going through it, so this is just a short of what I'm hearing... I'm going by what the former owner has programmed into the unit, unless it's been reinitialized.

LD1 and LD2 Green channels are simply beautiful sounding to my ears. That's coming from someone who favors AC30's and Twins for clean tones.
LD1 Yellow is a sweet blend of harmonics. I can't wait to jam some retro tones with pedals - not they're needed.
LD1 Red has the most musical sounding bottom-end I've ever heard! I'd say LD1 Red sounds damn close, if not exactly like my prototype DR head.
LD2 Yellow, which are especially sweet for brit gain tones. I think this is going to be my all-around general utility channel.
LD2 Red is my Mark IIC+ and Quad preamp - to a T! For modified high-gain 80's, this is the one.

I was actually looking for a preamp to run in one of the TC2290 switchable loops, to give my RK100 a clean tone. The Triaxis was priced right, so I figured I'd try it out. Since I no-longer own my Boogie amps, I can't do an actual A/B comparison for comment, but if I were to go by memory, I'd say that the Triaxis isn't quite as "raw" sounding as my Boogie's (except for LD2 Red). This is actually a good thing, and here's why...

I always felt that my Boogie's were a bit too raw sounding at lower volumes. When I'd turn them up, the power tubes would blend-in and smooth-out the harmonics from the preamp. I don't know if my blending comment is correct, but that's my interpretation. With this Triaxis, I'm now getting those cranked Boogie gain tones that I craved at tolerable volume levels. I assume Mesa may have implemented some op-amps, I don't know?

I'm running the Triaxis into the return of my RK100, so it's being powered with 4 x =C= 6L6's. Some some reason, my effects sound better using the Triaxis than they do with the RK100 preamp? Impedance issue, maybe? I can't say how mine sounds compared to other versions of the Triaxis, but this one (so far) is the bomb-diggity!

Just for the sake of accuracy, it's definitely a TX4D...

 

[mentoneman]

i had both and thought the axe had way more going on BUT the clean sounds in the triaxis were sweeter than any i could find in the ultra. you can dial in a very convincing petrucci hyperclean sound with the triaxis rhythm yellow and a decent fender vintage sound with the rhythm green.

the attack envelope in the axe was always way too sharp to my ears on cleans and i could never get it to round out and compress as sweetly as most any good clean amp.

i really didn't find the dynamic voice circuit anything like the true mesa graphic eq section in the real boogie heads i owned but good news is you can buy the stand alone mesa graphic eq pedal now and get that part of the amp more true to form.

 

[TrueTone500]

...you can buy the stand alone mesa graphic eq pedal now and get that part of the amp more true to form.

Interesting.

 

[rsm]

Mine has the phat mod, not clear if yours' does?

I have a few tube preamps, and was a big ADA user back in the day, still have my main MP-2 with noise mod. Selling my JMP-1 and JFX-1, but I've been using my TriAxis with a Torpedo CAB in the insert loop of my G-System rig for a few years now. PITA to program presets, and the MIDI set-up was a mindfuck for me at first, but it sounds great to me. I can use a single clean preset in the TriAxis and give it many different characters by changing the CAB presets; I also have a Nova Drive (MIDI controlled) and EH BMPwTW in the analog loops of the G.

TriAxis is a killer preamp IMO. If you need a direct to FRFR / recording solution for the TriAxis, have a look at the CAB.

 

[steve_k]

Send it in to remove the Fat mod if you want to use the Recto modes.

 

[TrueTone500]

Send it in to remove the Fat mod if you want to use the Recto modes.

How can I tell if it has the Fat mod? Can I not use Recto modes with the fat mod? I've been looking at Boogie Board posts, but I'm finding conflicting information.

Should I send it to MESA for a full inspection and maintenance?

 

[TrueTone500]

Okay... I found some info on TBBF.

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28054

"Personally i have now played all Versions of the Triaxis:
Version 1,
Version 2 with TX4 B/C/D,
Version 2 with all TX4 boards FAT modded and NonFAT
and the new TX5

For me, the best sounding Triaxis is: "Version 2 with a TX4-D FAT"
The Leadsound of the LD1-Red Channel on this version is absolutly
awesome, and I never want to go without it.

The TX5 is the most disappointing sound i have ever heard.
Its a total letdown! A Triaxis with a TX5 is a total devaluation of
LD1-Red. Worthless, you don't want to hear it. No gain, no bite,
no agression in sound, no searing, no singing - nothing! The sound
is quite dead. Mesa really did the wrong decision on that..."
- Bibo

I played it more earlier, and it is awesome! I'm thinking about offing my RK completely, and going with a kick-ass power amp... I like the look of the RK sitting on my studio, so it's going to be tough letting it go.

Then I find this...

There doesn't seem to be any consistency in TX4 boards and what truly is Phat/Non-Phat and what is needed to reverse a Phat Mod from all the pics/info I'm finding. Here is the info for supposedly reversing a Phat Mod:

"To reverse "Fat Mod" you’ve to add 4 caps and 4 resistors and change 2 resistors.

1) Add 4 resistors:
R9 :120 KOhm
R44 : 33 KOhm
R45 : 330 KOhm
R46 : 82 KOhm

2) Add 4 disc. caps:
C5, C6 & C12 : 0.001 µF
C22 : 47 pF

3) Change these 2 resistors near the center of the board and labelled MID & BASS. Replace them with:
R33 (MID) : 1 MOhm
R34 (BASS) : 10 Kohm"


Seems straight forward enough. Problem is, here's a pic of mine that's supposed to be a non-Phat mod:

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/2973/tx4fb9.jpg

But then I glance through it, see no C6, no R9, etc. So I think "maybe it's really a Phat Mod." Then I run across this, which is also supposed to be a non-Phat mod:

http://w3.enternet.hu/zwerner/tx4.jpg

BUT, this one is missing R46 (though the other has it), R9, it has C6 (where as the other one doesn't have it), etc. So what gives?

Neither one, both supposedly non-Phat models, match up with the instructions above for removing a Phat mod. So for anyone technical, are either of those or neither those a non-Phat mod? Are those instructions above right to remove a Phat Mod?

Hoping someone can share some insight, because I can't find any consistency. There's 2 TX4 boards that are supposedly non-Phat, and they don't match each other, and neither one matches the instructions for Phat Mod removal.

Anyone here with factory non-Phat Mod v2 care to post a pic of their TX4 board for comparison? Hoping someone else in the know can shed some light."
-NewWorldMan

I have no idea if mine is Phat modded or not? It would seem that MESA may have made some revisions to the mod.

 

[steve_k]

Send it in to remove the Fat mod if you want to use the Recto modes.

How can I tell if it has the Fat mod? Can I not use Recto modes with the fat mod? I've been looking at Boogie Board posts, but I'm finding conflicting information.

Should I send it to MESA for a full inspection and maintenance?

Yours has the phat mod. You could have it undone if you want to play on the Recto channels as they definitely sound better. I think Mesa made the changes because of the 2:90 release, after they stopped production of the Strategy power amps. Not sure what you are using for power, but the Strategy 295/395 Simulclass power amps are the best around if you can find one. I have several of them tucked away. As far as the TA's go, i have 3 of them. one v1 with the Brit red channel, one v2, non-phat with the Recto and a v2 with the phat mod. Most all the other modes sound similar on all 3.

 

[tech21man]

As the thread started about the mesa vs the fractal, a rumor was that the fractal owner cliff was a fan of the triaxis originally.


I loved the triaxis while I had it and compared it to the then axe-fx standard.

It was close, closer than I expected but not the same and the triaxis was better. Noticeably so if you chase the last % of sound but not so that you'll regard the axe as a plastic representation of it. If you like functionality and effects integration you could just use the axe-fx in its place doing all the work. I mean as a compliment to the axe-fx and as a fuck of to those early adopters that said it was the same or better ("realer!"...) than most tube amps. It was not.


But the mesa studio preamp was a/b much better than the triaxis and a lot better than the axe-fx anyway if you chase the mark sound in preamp form. And cheaper but less easy to work with.



Still I gotta ask. Wasn't lead 2 yellow the mark circuit (IIC+) and lead 2 red the recto-ish board? It's been so long I forget. It was the highlight of the unit as it employed the cold clipping third stage and cathode follower for the tonestack (post distortion) SLO/rectifier topology vs the fender based plate early tonestack of the mark series. I prefered lead 2 red by a mile for aggresive playing. Lead 2 yellow with volume is as great a lead sound you can get.


Also, the dynamic voice circuit and its op amp are always on even if dynamic voice is off...that is the downside of the unit. Maybe mesa thought that it wouldn't matter. I'd appreciate a true bypass of that path and a better graphic unit or whatever afterwards.


Great preamps. Love it with EL34 power amps (lead 2 red) but its soul match is the 2:90 and the power amp that deploys it's capabilities (midi switch between modern/deep/wattage and any preset on the triaxis).

 

[TrueTone500]

Send it in to remove the Fat mod if you want to use the Recto modes.

How can I tell if it has the Fat mod? Can I not use Recto modes with the fat mod? I've been looking at Boogie Board posts, but I'm finding conflicting information.

Should I send it to MESA for a full inspection and maintenance?

Yours has the phat mod. You could have it undone if you want to play on the Recto channels as they definitely sound better. I think Mesa made the changes because of the 2:90 release, after they stopped production of the Strategy power amps. Not sure what you are using for power, but the Strategy 295/395 Simulclass power amps are the best around if you can find one. I have several of them tucked away. As far as the TA's go, i have 3 of them. one v1 with the Brit red channel, one v2, non-phat with the Recto and a v2 with the phat mod. Most all the other modes sound similar on all 3.

Thank you! I'm using the power section of my Cornford RK100 loaded w/6L6 power tubes. Instead of reversing the Phat mod, I'm going to do as you did, and get each Triaxis version. Although I won't use it as much, I don't want to lose the TX4 Phat mod sound.

 

[steve_k]

Send it in to remove the Fat mod if you want to use the Recto modes.

How can I tell if it has the Fat mod? Can I not use Recto modes with the fat mod? I've been looking at Boogie Board posts, but I'm finding conflicting information.

Should I send it to MESA for a full inspection and maintenance?

Yours has the phat mod. You could have it undone if you want to play on the Recto channels as they definitely sound better. I think Mesa made the changes because of the 2:90 release, after they stopped production of the Strategy power amps. Not sure what you are using for power, but the Strategy 295/395 Simulclass power amps are the best around if you can find one. I have several of them tucked away. As far as the TA's go, i have 3 of them. one v1 with the Brit red channel, one v2, non-phat with the Recto and a v2 with the phat mod. Most all the other modes sound similar on all 3.

Thank you! I'm using the power section of my Cornford RK100 loaded w/6L6 power tubes. Instead of reversing the Phat mod, I'm going to do as you did, and get each Triaxis version. Although I won't use it as much, I don't want to lose the TX4 Phat mod sound.

If you are after a really nice L2 Yellow IIC+ tone (ala early Hetfield), grab a Mesa 5 band EQ pedal. Run it straight from the FX send of the TA (bypasses the MV of the TA) and into the FX return of your Corndog. Use some of the dynamic voicing on the TA plus the EQ to sculpt the tone you like.

 

[TrueTone500]

Send it in to remove the Fat mod if you want to use the Recto modes.

How can I tell if it has the Fat mod? Can I not use Recto modes with the fat mod? I've been looking at Boogie Board posts, but I'm finding conflicting information.

Should I send it to MESA for a full inspection and maintenance?

Yours has the phat mod. You could have it undone if you want to play on the Recto channels as they definitely sound better. I think Mesa made the changes because of the 2:90 release, after they stopped production of the Strategy power amps. Not sure what you are using for power, but the Strategy 295/395 Simulclass power amps are the best around if you can find one. I have several of them tucked away. As far as the TA's go, i have 3 of them. one v1 with the Brit red channel, one v2, non-phat with the Recto and a v2 with the phat mod. Most all the other modes sound similar on all 3.

Thank you! I'm using the power section of my Cornford RK100 loaded w/6L6 power tubes. Instead of reversing the Phat mod, I'm going to do as you did, and get each Triaxis version. Although I won't use it as much, I don't want to lose the TX4 Phat mod sound.

If you are after a really nice L2 Yellow IIC+ tone (ala early Hetfield), grab a Mesa 5 band EQ pedal. Run it straight from the FX send of the TA (bypasses the MV of the TA) and into the FX return of your Corndog. Use some of the dynamic voicing on the TA plus the EQ to sculpt the tone you like.

Thanks, I'll try that. I'm working out a local deal on another TA (TX4-D) and 2:90 power amp. My idea is to send one of TA's to MESA, and let them reverse the Phat mod to the Recto specs... Is that a good idea, or no? Would I have more sound options throughout, of just a different sounding LD1 Red? Do you recommend going with 2 x 1x12 Thiel cabs or a 4x12 stereo? Do you prefer MESA cabinets with the TA and 2:90 rig?

 

[steve_k]

Send it in to remove the Fat mod if you want to use the Recto modes.

How can I tell if it has the Fat mod? Can I not use Recto modes with the fat mod? I've been looking at Boogie Board posts, but I'm finding conflicting information.

Should I send it to MESA for a full inspection and maintenance?

Yours has the phat mod. You could have it undone if you want to play on the Recto channels as they definitely sound better. I think Mesa made the changes because of the 2:90 release, after they stopped production of the Strategy power amps. Not sure what you are using for power, but the Strategy 295/395 Simulclass power amps are the best around if you can find one. I have several of them tucked away. As far as the TA's go, i have 3 of them. one v1 with the Brit red channel, one v2, non-phat with the Recto and a v2 with the phat mod. Most all the other modes sound similar on all 3.

Thank you! I'm using the power section of my Cornford RK100 loaded w/6L6 power tubes. Instead of reversing the Phat mod, I'm going to do as you did, and get each Triaxis version. Although I won't use it as much, I don't want to lose the TX4 Phat mod sound.

If you are after a really nice L2 Yellow IIC+ tone (ala early Hetfield), grab a Mesa 5 band EQ pedal. Run it straight from the FX send of the TA (bypasses the MV of the TA) and into the FX return of your Corndog. Use some of the dynamic voicing on the TA plus the EQ to sculpt the tone you like.

Thanks, I'll try that. I'm working out a local deal on another TA (TX4-D) and 2:90 power amp. My idea is to send one of TA's to MESA, and let them reverse the Phat mod to the Recto specs... Is that a good idea, or no? Would I have more sound options throughout, of just a different sounding LD1 Red? Do you recommend going with 2 x 1x12 Thiel cabs or a 4x12 stereo? Do you prefer MESA cabinets with the TA and 2:90 rig?

if you have the option available to you, avoid the 290 altogether. find a Simul 295 or 395 power amp or a Strategy 400. but, if you are dead set on a 290 (for full function of the TA), let me know. i happen to have two of them available to sell if you are interested. one just came back serviced from boogie.

 

[mentoneman]

back when i had it the v2.0 no phat mod was the one to have. v2.0 opened up the midi real time control and recto lead 1 red sound.

lead 2 green was the mark IV sound which i used for ej lead sounds, lead 2 yellow was their mark Iic and i loved that one for main lead sounds ala dann huff/landau tones, and lead 2 red was supposed to be mark III but it never lived up to that for me as i had an actual mark III to compare to.

i remember really missing the real 5 band graphic eq and the presence control on the amp compared to the "virtual" dynamic voice and presence controls.

 

[TrueTone500]

From the Triaxis manual:

THE MODES ARE SHAPED AS FOLLOWS:
Rhy-Green=Vintage Fat Rhythm
Rhy-Yellow=Modern Bright
Rhy Lead 1-Green=Vintage Mark 1 Lead
Lead 1-Yellow=Gain Boost MK I Ld.
Lead 1 - Red = Classic British Lead (non-Phat Mod version?)
Lead 2 - Green = Mid Gain MK IV Lead
Lead 2 - Yellow = Classic MKII Lead (MK II-IV)
Lead 2 - Red = Searing MKIII Lead

LD 1 RED:
This aggressive mode shares much of the circuitry with both Lead 1 Green and Yellow and then adds extra focus and punch in the upper midrange. This mid-forward voicing lends a more urgent, tight character to the mix and is perfect for showcasing Lead 1’s heavier side. Because of this added midrange, the Red mode slices through a mix in the sonic region where the rock snare lives and is especially great for crunch rhythm in either classic or modern gain realms.

LEAD 2:
As we said, was derived from the basic MK II style design, so we thought it fitting to dedicate two of the three modes to previously raved over classic Boogie amplifiers, the MK IV and the Mark II C+. These are represented in the Green and Yellow modes respectively. The Green circuit is taken directly from a Mark IV Lead channel. Green is focused gain. It uses the concept of the Mark IV’s Mid Gain, a feature added in 1989, to enhance the attack and to lower the medium midrange “meat” of the sound. By enhancing this part of the spectrum a rich, bold, yet singing quality is produced. Thick would be the best way to describe its’ character, while Punchy would accurately describe its’ attack. It does saturate the note fairly completely, especially at high gain settings, but the attack envelope is so right at lower gain settings, that roots players usually love this Green mode. Its’ thicker mid- range punch really helps melody lines played on the high strings, particularly high on the neck. With higher Gain and Drive settings the high notes soar and sing, yet don’t get too soupy to be heard in a big mix. Green is especially helpful in getting rid of unwanted fret buzz or other annoying idiosyncrasies of an instrument that may be set up wrong. It tends to cover up buzz leaving just the note with greater purity. This is most apparent when a weak single coil is used for soloing. LEAD 2 Green is the cure for this dilemma. It adds the needed frequencies and its’ gain is the steroid habit these weaklings need to deliver a bold lead voice. Green is the mode of choice anytime you need to deliver a statement and you don’t have the luxury of several tracks. It is single note authority at its’ expressive best.

LD2 YELLOW:
This is Boogie! This mode is the sound that started the craze that be came what is slanged as the “California” sound, or the “L.A.” guitar tone. Lukather, Landau, Keaggy, Lynch, Gillis, Prince, and Metallica catapulted this sound into the fore front of hit making guitar sounds throughout the eighties. Metallica continues to search high and low for pristine C+ heads to add to their amplifier collection - deeming them essential for recording, but you don’t have to! The Yellow mode is the reincarnation of the fabled Mark II-C+ Lead mode. Its blend of bold punch and evenly stacked liquid harmonics produces a lead voice that transforms any player who spends enough time to let it...into a virtuoso of feeling, soul, and statement. It growls with ferocity in the low range, staying tight and urgent. A “thonk and chirp” is experienced traveling through the midrange frequencies. Then suddenly, as if someone redialed for the highs, an explosive, yet liquid top-end comes ripping out as you squeeze every luscious note out of the treble strings. Sound almost sexual? Primal? Well many a II-C+ junkie will confess that broken hearts are often cured from a couple weeks rocking with a C+. Seriously, the blend of this mode is so amazing, that most players are finding new great sounds 2 and 3 years after their first ear to ear grin!

By what I've read so far, it sounds like the LD1 Red mode was originally designed to be a "Marshall" voiced mode? I haven't played a pre-Recto version, so I can't comment. The LD1 Red in mine is f--king awesome sounding!!! If I wasn't getting a second TA, there's no way I'd retro mod it to non-Phat specs. When I hit LD1 Red, I was literally startled by the tone!

"The TX4 is the "Recto" board which approximates the red channel of the Dual Rectifier amplifier. The "Phat Mod" is a tweak that smooths-out the top-end in LD1 Red mode, giving it the Vintage voicing found on the Dual Rectifier amplifier..."
- MW

As the earlier pics show, it looks as though there are variations of the Phat Mod... I'm going to call MB tomorrow, and try to gather more intel.

 

[TrueTone500]

I found this today...

"The Mesa/Boogie TriAxis is basically the culmination of all the Mark series put into a single preamp. There are a vast amount of channels, about 128, which can be programmed completely seperate from each other.

"There are 2 Green channels, which are the cleans from the Mark I, and Mark II amps, three Yellow channels which are the drive channels from the Mark II, III, and IV amps. There are then two Red channels which are rectifier-like, but in themselves have their own characteristics that set them apart from an actual Rectifier amp.

For high gain, it is incredible! I'm running on the LD2 Red channel for my main distortion, and it's simply incredible. As of right now, I have a very "The Glass Prison" rhythm tone that can be easily manipulated into a Meshuggah-esque sound, just by the press of a few buttons. The thing about Mesa amps, is that their EQ is primarily situated around the treble, and everything is based off of that. It's not necessary to have your gain too high on this amp, because when it's cranked with a poweramp, it just roars!

The cleans are extremely versatile, going from a crisp Fender-esque clean that can be overdriven with dynamics and volume to the dirty cleans of a Marshall. I use an EQ in front of the tones, because in all honesty, the Tri-Axis does not do these tones perfectly, yet has its own color that shines through marvelously.

The Tri-Axis was designed for the Stereo 2:90 poweramp, but I know of a few people who use the 2:50 and it sounds wonderful with that..."

- JoshIsNumber3

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/forums/show ... p?t=484359

So... A TX4 loaded Triaxis without the Phat Mod is Rectifier tone (LD1 Red) with "Modern" voicing. A TX4 loaded Triaxis with the Phat Mod is Rectifier tone (LD1 Red) with "Vintage" voicing. As someone who has owned a Dual Rectifier amp, I preferred the "Vintage" voicing. Mine was the prototype, so the production models may sound different.

Here's how one player describes the early "British" voiced LD1 Red channel...

guitarspaz
Supporting Member
Feedback Score: 0 reviews

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 505
Great unit! It pays to read the manual. I got annoyed with all the programming and sold it. Got a Mak4 because it has knobs, and never looked back as far as rack gear goes. If you need a bunch of tones for say a cover band, it's great. All modes were usable, except for one... I think it was some British red channel or something, but it sucked! Mine was an early serial number unit, and I think they changed that in later versions.

 

[TrueTone500]

I was going to purchase a Mesa 2:90, but was advised to instead get an ADA Ampulator to run directly into my mixing board.

Here are a couple posts from ADA Ampulator users....

"Easy to use, although there are some very subtle knobs on the front pannel. It pays to read the manual, which is pretty good. I use this in conjunction with a Mesa/Boogie TriAxis preamp. The combination of the TriAxis preamp and the Ampulator is wonderful! It improves the feel of the system and not just the sound. This is the only thing in its class. It is a power amp simulator as well as a cabinet simulator. It improves the feel of my preamp, making it feel like I'm really bouncing an amp around stage..."

Mike - "I bought an Ampulator and FINALLY figured out how to get the best sound from it. I have it in effects loop of the GSP. If there's any raspyness in the GSP distortion, you can set the Ampulator to slightly compress (different sound entirely than pre tube compressor of the GSP) the signal. The result is a fluid, cleaner, rounder sounding singing distortion ala Larry Carlton, Robben Ford. The feel improves also. In addition, the Ampulator adds balls that I don't believe you can get EVEN WITH a tube power amp, unless it's CRANKED TO FULL (or almost full). IMHO the most benefit obtained from a tube power amp is with it maxed out. I tried to get close to the Ampulator effect with EQ and GSP compression, and nothing comes close..."