MIDI Control// Pedal switcher

[Gambit]

Hey, I made the topic which a lot of people are chiming in on.... on the best way to run two or three amps simultanously and how to run FX into those amps. Many people are suggesting having an amp clean and having the other two running effects which would be seperate units.

As far as amp switchers the VOODOO labs one is said to be a piece of junk here, I appreciate that info before I bought it.

My question for this topic is I intend to buy a MIDI controller to control my front end pedals (via 2-3 pedal switchers), rack effects and possibly amp selection. I have no idea yet how to switch amps via midi yet, im learning.

I've researched and understand the ground control pro by VOODOO labs pretty well, how do we feel in general about it as a midi switcher? Is there one people here like better that isn't insanely expensive?

I'm also planning to get the pedal switchers to act as true bypasses as I do run a lot of pedals infront of my amp. The GCP can control this, I imagine another midi switcher would be able to as well If I went with another brand?


Thx everyone, im new to a lot of this and I really appreciate the help!

 

[steve_k]

The GCX and GCP are affordable, readily available and good pieces of kit to put together a Midi controlled rack. The alphanumeric capabilities of the switcher are a plus. The GCP is fairly easy to program once you read the manual a few times.

Steve

 

[glpg80]

you can use the GCX to control up to 16 channels. the coolest thing i love about the GCX is that when you turn a channel off, its out of your signal chain. so theres no tone sucking from pedals that arent bypassed or have AD/DA converters in them like the TC nova delay.

plus its relatively cheap - $350 used. you can run it off of an midi pedal that sends midi out, but the GCP seems to be the better controller here if you want alot of options.

if you dont want alot of options, get a smaller foot controller and it will still work as long as it also sends midi out

 

[glpg80]

Hey, I made the topic which a lot of people are chiming in on.... on the best way to run two or three amps simultanously and how to run FX into those amps. Many people are suggesting having an amp clean and having the other two running effects which would be seperate units.

As far as amp switchers the VOODOO labs one is said to be a piece of junk here, I appreciate that info before I bought it.

My question for this topic is I intend to buy a MIDI controller to control my front end pedals (via 2-3 pedal switchers), rack effects and possibly amp selection. I have no idea yet how to switch amps via midi yet, im learning.

I've researched and understand the ground control pro by VOODOO labs pretty well, how do we feel in general about it as a midi switcher? Is there one people here like better that isn't insanely expensive?

I'm also planning to get the pedal switchers to act as true bypasses as I do run a lot of pedals infront of my amp. The GCP can control this, I imagine another midi switcher would be able to as well If I went with another brand?


Thx everyone, im new to a lot of this and I really appreciate the help!

lady gaga is hot as hell - nice avatar

 

[Gambit]

Yeah, she is fuckin hot lol.

Only issues ive heard with VOODOO stuff is the amp switcher which is what's being discussed mostly in the other thread I started.

My goal is to run my guitar into stompboxes then into several amps (2-3). I have been informed on these boards that its really a bitch to have all of those amps using the same FX piece (rack), so the "wet" amp or amps I choose will have seperate rack FX. If it means I have to buy two of the same than so be it.

I want to be able to control my stompboxes and rack FX via midi, which based on my prior research and this thread will be the GCP. I will have the GCP control the stompboxes in front of the amp with VOODOO labs pedal switchers which are midi accessable.

If I am correct the only use I would have for the GCX would be to control stompboxes in my rack set up... what else would I use it for? Amp functions like channel switching? Not so sure about that.


Right now the big question is still how to run the multiple amps at once, at least two if not 3 heads. Most likely 2 speakers.

I've heard lately the MESA high imput amp switcher, theres a radial product being discussed and the voodoo labs switcher has been ruled out.


Feedback!!!!!! =)

 

[Zachman]

Yeah, she is fuckin hot lol.

Only issues ive heard with VOODOO stuff is the amp switcher which is what's being discussed mostly in the other thread I started.

My goal is to run my guitar into stompboxes then into several amps (2-3). I have been informed on these boards that its really a bitch to have all of those amps using the same FX piece (rack), so the "wet" amp or amps I choose will have seperate rack FX. If it means I have to buy two of the same than so be it.

I want to be able to control my stompboxes and rack FX via midi, which based on my prior research and this thread will be the GCP. I will have the GCP control the stompboxes in front of the amp with VOODOO labs pedal switchers which are midi accessable.

If I am correct the only use I would have for the GCX would be to control stompboxes in my rack set up... what else would I use it for? Amp functions like channel switching? Not so sure about that.


Right now the big question is still how to run the multiple amps at once, at least two if not 3 heads. Most likely 2 speakers.

I've heard lately the MESA high imput amp switcher, theres a radial product being discussed and the voodoo labs switcher has been ruled out.


Feedback!!!!!! =)

I spelled it out for you in the other thread.

 

[stephen sawall]

With the GCP you can control up to 4 GCX. With the GCX's you can control all your pedals, rack effects, preamps, poweramps, heads, amp combos and channel switching on the amps and preamps.

There are other brands that can do the same .... but I do not know of one that gives you bang for buck of these.

Read the manual for both of these and it all well become clear ....

http://www.voodoolab.com/manuals/gcx_manual.pdf

http://www.voodoolab.com/manuals/gcpro_manual.pdf

I was doing all this with 3 amps, GCP and 2 GCX ..... It was just a pain in the ass to gigs with. If you plan on never moving it or have a crew to set up your gear fine.

Over several months I wired it up about every way you can imagine. Looping out the preamps from my heads. Switching on and off 1,2 or three of the power amps from the heads. Good luck getting the whole rig in phase if you use more than 2 amps in any way.

This is what I do....

I set up my rig so I have a wet amp (preamp distortion) that runs all the time ....if I use any effects or not.

The other amp (power amp distortion) only has effects in front (It can be dry or what ever pedals you want for both amps. This amp is turned on and off with presets.

I have about a dozen amps and can use any 1 or 2 amps without a ton of set up time.

There are a lot more ways this can be wired .... this works for me.

 

[Jack Luminous]

I looked long and hard for a solution to this very problem and the best all-in-one tool out there for this purpose is the Brunetti Matrix :

http://www.brunetti.it/products_item_en ... 1213709510

It works just as advertised. Everything is buffered and transformer-isolated so no hum, noise, ground loops, pops/clicks etc. It sounds great too.
You can run 3 amps (or preamps or whatever), 3 pre-amp pedals, 2 post-amp stereo effects and all that into one or two cabs. The unused tube amps are protected against failure with an internal load when not running in a cab obviously.

 

[chunktone]

One thing to keep in mind is you have to use the GCP footcontroller if you use the GCX. This is the main reason I'm going with RJM.

http://shop.toursupply.com/effect-gizmo ... aptor.html

 

[Gambit]

With the GCP you can control up to 4 GCX. With the GCX's you can control all your pedals, rack effects, preamps, poweramps, heads, amp combos and channel switching on the amps and preamps.

There are other brands that can do the same .... but I do not know of one that gives you bang for buck of these.

Read the manual for both of these and it all well become clear ....

http://www.voodoolab.com/manuals/gcx_manual.pdf

http://www.voodoolab.com/manuals/gcpro_manual.pdf

I was doing all this with 3 amps, GCP and 2 GCX ..... It was just a pain in the ass to gigs with. If you plan on never moving it or have a crew to set up your gear fine.

Over several months I wired it up about every way you can imagine. Looping out the preamps from my heads. Switching on and off 1,2 or three of the power amps from the heads. Good luck getting the whole rig in phase if you use more than 2 amps in any way.

This is what I do....

I set up my rig so I have a wet amp (preamp distortion) that runs all the time ....if I use any effects or not.

The other amp (power amp distortion) only has effects in front (It can be dry or what ever pedals you want for both amps. This amp is turned on and off with presets.

I have about a dozen amps and can use any 1 or 2 amps without a ton of set up time.

There are a lot more ways this can be wired .... this works for me.

If I went from the GCP to the pedal switchers via midi, then to my rack FX and then back to the pedal switcher... what would be the benefit of running the rack FX through the GCX vs just wiring them through the amps FX loops?

When you say amp combos, im not sure what you mean.... I dont think I can run multiple amps through a GCX, or split my single to 2 or 3 amps with it. Im pretty sure thats what weve been talking about in the other thread, best way to run 2-3 amps at once.

When you say it can control amp functions, such as reverb on/off and channel switching, that I understand. I guess you just send a cord from the GCX to the input of that particular function on the amp.


I dont understand the difference between a power amp, pre amp, post amp... all that stuff... I just know I have a Mesa Tremoverb and Marshall JCM 2000 that I want to use together. dont both of them have preamps and poweramps?

did you ever run simultanous amps?

 

[Gambit]

I looked long and hard for a solution to this very problem and the best all-in-one tool out there for this purpose is the Brunetti Matrix :

http://www.brunetti.it/products_item_en ... 1213709510

It works just as advertised. Everything is buffered and transformer-isolated so no hum, noise, ground loops, pops/clicks etc. It sounds great too.
You can run 3 amps (or preamps or whatever), 3 pre-amp pedals, 2 post-amp stereo effects and all that into one or two cabs. The unused tube amps are protected against failure with an internal load when not running in a cab obviously.

I'll have to read the manual for the brunetti, dont understand exactly what it does. Is this a way to run multiple amps simultanously?

Information overload.

 

[Gambit]

One thing to keep in mind is you have to use the GCP footcontroller if you use the GCX. This is the main reason I'm going with RJM.

http://shop.toursupply.com/effect-gizmo ... aptor.html

yeah Im going with the GCP. If nothing else I understand it and its affordable. More interested in using pedal switchers and rack FX with the GCP than the GCX. I could see using the GCX to control amp functions and additional pedals I dont always use.

 

[Jack Luminous]

I looked long and hard for a solution to this very problem and the best all-in-one tool out there for this purpose is the Brunetti Matrix :

http://www.brunetti.it/products_item_en ... 1213709510

It works just as advertised. Everything is buffered and transformer-isolated so no hum, noise, ground loops, pops/clicks etc. It sounds great too.
You can run 3 amps (or preamps or whatever), 3 pre-amp pedals, 2 post-amp stereo effects and all that into one or two cabs. The unused tube amps are protected against failure with an internal load when not running in a cab obviously.

I'll have to read the manual for the brunetti, dont understand exactly what it does. Is this a way to run multiple amps simultanously?

Information overload.

LOL

It can switch between 3 amps into one cab.
It can run effects into the amps inputs or in the amps effect loops.
Read the manual.

 

[Gainzilla]

For my money, I would go with the Rocktron All Access and the Patchmate Loop 8. Sturdy as hell, rock solid switching and ease of programming, better features than the Voodoo labs stuff( which isnt bad for the money but if you save a little more, you end up with ALOT better Imo)

Kage

 

[Zachman]

One thing to keep in mind is you have to use the GCP footcontroller if you use the GCX. This is the main reason I'm going with RJM.

http://shop.toursupply.com/effect-gizmo ... aptor.html

yeah Im going with the GCP. If nothing else I understand it and its affordable. More interested in using pedal switchers and rack FX with the GCP than the GCX. I could see using the GCX to control amp functions and additional pedals I dont always use.

It's statements like these that has me wondering IF you really do understand.

Remind me of a guy named walters9515, and bluesaholick (Alias from Harmony Central) who used to ask tons of questions, just to yank everyone's chains.

Perhaps I am just a skeptic, but the last statement either shows that you don't understand the GCX/GCP at all, or you do and are just having fun asking intentionally misleading/dopey questions.

Jury is still out on this

 

[guitarslinger]

plus its relatively cheap - $350 used. you can run it off of an midi pedal that sends midi out, but the GCP seems to be the better controller here if you want alot of options.

if you dont want alot of options, get a smaller foot controller and it will still work as long as it also sends midi out

Careful, dude.

A midi pedal that doesn't shoot out CC commands won't do shit with a GCX.

I know b/c I have that problem right now, and I need to buy a new MIDI pedal now

 

[Zachman]

plus its relatively cheap - $350 used. you can run it off of an midi pedal that sends midi out, but the GCP seems to be the better controller here if you want alot of options.

if you dont want alot of options, get a smaller foot controller and it will still work as long as it also sends midi out

Careful, dude.

A midi pedal that doesn't shoot out CC commands won't do shit with a GCX.

I know b/c I have that problem right now, and I need to buy a new MIDI pedal now

Doh, bummer....

 

[Gambit]

One thing to keep in mind is you have to use the GCP footcontroller if you use the GCX. This is the main reason I'm going with RJM.

http://shop.toursupply.com/effect-gizmo ... aptor.html

yeah Im going with the GCP. If nothing else I understand it and its affordable. More interested in using pedal switchers and rack FX with the GCP than the GCX. I could see using the GCX to control amp functions and additional pedals I dont always use.

It's statements like these that has me wondering IF you really do understand.

Remind me of a guy named walters9515, and bluesaholick (Alias from Harmony Central) who used to ask tons of questions, just to yank everyone's chains.

Perhaps I am just a skeptic, but the last statement either shows that you don't understand the GCX/GCP at all, or you do and are just having fun asking intentionally misleading/dopey questions.

Jury is still out on this

No, im being totally honest. All of this is new to me, I imagine I'm a bit younger than most of you, 24, and I haven't been exposed to this very detailed kind of electronic schemeing.

I may not understand this as well as the rest of you but I am in no way pulling anyones chain.

What I meant by my post was I definitely want to get the GCP, and from reading the manuals I was under the impression the GCP could connect via midi to the pedal switchers... hence changing them.... and then from there could go to the midi inputs of my rack FX. I didnt think I needed to use a GCX to control my rack FX, I was under the impression I could simply go like this:

GCP Midi to~pedal switcher~pedal switcher~rack fx~rack fx~ and then back to GCP midi

If I dont understand something, try to understand thats the reason I'm here... not to toy with people or any bullshit like that.

 

[Zachman]

One thing to keep in mind is you have to use the GCP footcontroller if you use the GCX. This is the main reason I'm going with RJM.

http://shop.toursupply.com/effect-gizmo ... aptor.html

yeah Im going with the GCP. If nothing else I understand it and its affordable. More interested in using pedal switchers and rack FX with the GCP than the GCX. I could see using the GCX to control amp functions and additional pedals I dont always use.

It's statements like these that has me wondering IF you really do understand.

Remind me of a guy named walters9515, and bluesaholick (Alias from Harmony Central) who used to ask tons of questions, just to yank everyone's chains.

Perhaps I am just a skeptic, but the last statement either shows that you don't understand the GCX/GCP at all, or you do and are just having fun asking intentionally misleading/dopey questions.

Jury is still out on this

No, im being totally honest. All of this is new to me, I imagine I'm a bit younger than most of you, 24, and I haven't been exposed to this very detailed kind of electronic schemeing.

I may not understand this as well as the rest of you but I am in no way pulling anyones chain.

What I meant by my post was I definitely want to get the GCP, and from reading the manuals I was under the impression the GCP could connect via midi to the pedal switchers... hence changing them.... and then from there could go to the midi inputs of my rack FX. I didnt think I needed to use a GCX to control my rack FX, I was under the impression I could simply go like this:

GCP Midi to~pedal switcher~pedal switcher~rack fx~rack fx~ and then back to GCP midi

If I dont understand something, try to understand thats the reason I'm here... not to toy with people or any bullshit like that.

Okay... A switching system is a MIDI programmable/controllable audio routing network (think of it as a MIDI programmable/controllable patchbay)-- and allows for control function's (amp channel switching), and some are better than others and some have more features than others. They can allow you to route some stuff to the front of your amp (ex. pedals), switch amp channels and even simultaneously route other stuff to your amp's loop (Rack processors) or to an external power amp for a w/d or w/d/w setup, or to another amp (like what you were talking about doing).

Imo, you aren't ready to decide that you want the GCP yet, as you aren't sure what level of control you need nor what gear you're going to have to control. The GCP is a well-built unit, but may not possess some features you may want/need when all is said and done.

Imo, you first need to sort out your gear needs.

You said you wanted:

* 3 amps simultaneously (each through it's own speaker)
* Running your gear through each amps loop (imo, isn't the way to accomplish this)
* And some pedals through the front of each amp.
* MIDI controlled (with presets adjusting your MIDI gear to the proper presets, and activating/deactivating whether or not given devices are in the signal path, and I am assuming-- selecting amp channel switching as well.

Is this correct? Did I leave anything out?

When designing a rig like this you have to figure out how many loops/control functions you will end up needing.

I recommend going to http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/faq

And reading EVERYTHING there a few times, starting with "How do I determine what I need for a custom switching system".

TRUST me-- do this before spending any money at all.

 

[Gambit]

Okay... A switching system is a MIDI programmable/controllable audio routing network (think of it as a MIDI programmable/controllable patchbay), and some are better than others and some have more features than others. They can allow you to route some stuff to the front of your amp (ex. pedals), switch amp channels and even simultaneously route other stuff to your amp's loop (Rack processors) or to an external power amp for a w/d or w/d/w setup, or to another amp (like what you were talking about doing). Ok, I am assuming we're talking about the GCX here. I like the idea of having my pedals that I run in front of my amp on the floor so I can adjust them on the fly, so though I could technically run them to the GCX, I would still want to keep them on the floor and not in the rack itself. Some pedals I could see leaving in the rack. Thats why I wanted to opt for the pedal switcher, acting as a bypass to preserve my signal while keeping the pedals in front of me. I could always use long cables and run the stompboxes to the GCX and still have them infront of me, I definitely understand that. I just feel for the sake of keeping things simple that running 2 or 3 pedal switchers would be easier. I also do understand that the GCX is midi controllable. I have read the manual and some things make sense and some dont, so I'm just going to clarify what I do understand.

Imo, you aren't ready to decide that you want the GCP yet, as you aren't sure what level of control you need nor what gear you're going to have to control. The GCP is a well-built unit, but may not possess some features you may want/need when all is said and done. I agree, trying to do my homework before I buy anything.

Imo, you first need to sort out your gear needs.

You said you wanted:

* 3 amps simultaneously (each through it's own speaker)
Definitely two at least. I want to run a tremoverb with its mesa cab, a jcm 2000 with its 1960a cab and possibly an orange rockerverb. No idea yet wether I want an orange cab or if I would just run the marshall and the orange stereo into the marshall cab. As of right now I am going to treat my setup as if I am try to operate two heads connected to two different speakers... whatever gear I get needs to have the option of being able to add a third head/cab

* Running your gear through each amps loop (imo, isn't the way to accomplish this)
Based on feedback here I am no longer going to try to run the same rack units through all the different amps. If anything, if I need to get the same rack FX on different amp heads I will simply buy another one of that FX unit. I am going to run an amp dry at all times, save maybe a wah or compressor, most likely the mesa tremoverb.

* And some pedals through the front of each amp.
Yes definitely. I was planning on going guitar-pedal switchers (connected to pedals)-amp switcher-different amps. The amp switcher wont be the voodoo labs one, I am considering the mesa rack piece if I can find it on ebay or someones selling. I imagine in that scenerio I would go guitar-pedal switchers- mesa rack input- and from the rack input that would connect to the inputs of the different amps.

* MIDI controlled (with presets adjusting your MIDI gear to the proper presets, and activating/deactivating whether or not given devices are in the signal path, and I am assuming-- selecting amp channel switching as well.
Absolutely, I most of the time run my amps on a particular dirty setting so channel switching would just be icing on the cake, I wouldnt need to use it so much though.... turning off and on particular FX for different parts in songs and even switching between amps is priority.

Is this correct? Did I leave anything out?
No man, you summed it up pretty great. I want to be able to control my stompboxes in front of the amp (while leaving them on the floor), control my rack FX (which now I realize each should only be going to one amp at a time), and have all of this able to go to multiple amps. I would also very much like to be able to switch between the amps, say if I just wanted to solo on one amp and not the other two for whatever reason. Keeping that in mind it would be cool if my amp switcher was midi controllable so perhaps the midi controller I choose can turn the amps on or off?

When designing a rig like this you have to figure out how many loops/control functions you will end up needing.

I recommend going to http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/faq

And reading EVERYTHING there a few times, starting with "How do I determine what I need for a custom switching system".

TRUST me-- do this before spending any money at all.

My next plan of action will be to go there and read and re-read everything. Ill do my best understand it. I really really appreciate all the time you're spending helping me out here.

Think of me as the kid you were before you were masterful at all this stuff, think of how you would teach it all to yourself again. =)