NAD: Langner (Bay Area Thrash) modded Marshall

B

braintheory

Well-known member
Some of you may have seen his recent progress on this 1972 SuperLead 100. Well it was mine and didn’t wanna say anything yet lol, but it’s what I was hoping for and more importantly not what I was dreading as typical things I don’t like in modded Marshall’s. I had before a Langner modded 1980 JMP2204 and it was my favorite modded Marshall at the time I had it. It was like a much better, more pissed off Cameron mod to me with better, greasier feel too (this was from me actually AB’ing it with many other Cameron mods). It had a very rich, growly, juicy, midrange. The only things I didn’t like about was it sounded kind of small/narrow even for a 50w amp I’m guessing from its low plate voltage and was a bit noisy. Well this one has what I loved about that one with the horsepower that one was missing and is actually very low noise for how much gain it has (a lot!). It may actually have a throatier growl than that one in the lower part of the mids and less hair in the treble. The added knobs on the back are also nice shaping tools (depth, NFB and mid slope)

I’m both happy and relieved. I’m relieved because I honestly didn’t love most modded Marshall’s I’ve had/tried (basically all the known modders besides just Soldano or Folkesson at this point). I won’t name the others (would be a really long list anyway LOL), but I’ll just say most other modded Marshall’s I’ve had when AB’ed often sounded either sterile/no soul, filtered or distant vs a good stock Marshall counterpart boosted, but many mods were impressive to me before doing comparisons. I remember Cameron himself admitted it’s hard to mod a Marshall to be as good or better than a good stock one boosted. For a while I was anti mod and thought just boost a good stock Marshall, but that Langner 2204 had me change my mind 3 years ago now

Since then the 3 mods I’ve had to be legit for me (some of my favorite amps) have been this Langner/Bay Area Thrash mod, Bogner Snorkler mod (not the blue board ones that aren’t a Snorkler) and Morin mod. They’re all super different flavors from each other that I’d play for different styles. This is my overall favorite of the 3. These 3 showed me the right mod can actually be legit

In short, TLDR, this mod delivers a really growly, rich, woody, juicy tone with amazing midrange and is pretty tight, but the feel has give/elasticity to it. My favorite amp for these descriptors. I greatly prefer it to the many Cameron’s I’ve had and tired by at least 2 notches above as does someone else I know with this mod. This for me is the current benchmark of what a good modded Marshall should be. @FourT6and2 if you’re reading this please don’t lose my spot for the other amp I want modded lol
 
phil b said:
Clips or its a Gorilla mod done by Billy Blades' ... Oh hell.. lost my train of thought! I really would love to here this in all its glory.. Room/phone clips are fine. Thank you sir!
Click to expand...
I’ll PM you clips when I make them. I can say also through my Altec 417C’s it’s like RR on steroids lol. Similar result in that sense with the OG Langner modded 2204 I had
 
braintheory said:
Some of you may have seen his recent progress on this 1972 SuperLead 100. Well it was mine and didn’t wanna say anything yet lol, but it’s what I was hoping for and more importantly not what I was dreading as typical things I don’t like in modded Marshall’s. I had before a Langner modded 1980 JMP2204 and it was my favorite modded Marshall at the time I had it. It was like a much better, more pissed off Cameron mod to me with better, greasier feel too (this was from me actually AB’ing it with many other Cameron mods). It had a very rich, growly, juicy, midrange. The only things I didn’t like about was it sounded kind of small/narrow even for a 50w amp I’m guessing from its low plate voltage and was a bit noisy. Well this one has what I loved about that one with the horsepower that one was missing and is actually very low noise for how much gain it has (a lot!). It may actually have a throatier growl than that one in the lower part of the mids and less hair in the treble. The added knobs on the back are also nice shaping tools (depth, NFB and mid slope)

I’m both happy and relieved. I’m relieved because I honestly didn’t love most modded Marshall’s I’ve had/tried (basically all the known modders besides just Soldano or Folkesson at this point). I won’t name the others (would be a really long list anyway LOL), but I’ll just say most other modded Marshall’s I’ve had when AB’ed often sounded either sterile/no soul, filtered or distant vs a good stock Marshall counterpart boosted, but many mods were impressive to me before doing comparisons. I remember Cameron himself admitted it’s hard to mod a Marshall to be as good or better than a good stock one boosted. For a while I was anti mod and thought just boost a good stock Marshall, but that Langner 2204 had me change my mind 3 years ago now

Since then the 3 mods I’ve had to be legit for me (some of my favorite amps) have been this Langner/Bay Area Thrash mod, Bogner Snorkler mod (not the blue board ones that aren’t a Snorkler) and Morin mod. They’re all super different flavors from each other that I’d play for different styles. This is my overall favorite of the 3. These 3 showed me the right mod can actually be legit

In short, TLDR, this mod delivers a really growly, rich, woody, juicy tone with amazing midrange and is pretty tight, but the feel has give/elasticity to it. My favorite amp for these descriptors. I greatly prefer it to the many Cameron’s I’ve had and tired by at least 2 notches above as does someone else I know with this mod. This for me is the current benchmark of what a good modded Marshall should be. @FourT6and2 if you’re reading this please don’t lose my spot for the other amp I want modded lol
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Spot on!

I differ in that I have enjoyed other modded Marshalls, some more than others but yes it is hard to beat a pedal in front of a stock 2203/1959. But this Langner mod that Mike does is in a league of its own. Camerons have good greasy feel and the best of the modded Marshalls until I got this mod. Now the 46-2 Marshall is up there with the Snorkler, C+s and Naylor SDs as the best of the best for feel. Clarity is amazing esp when you know it's 5(!) gain stages....and, super quiet. A 2203 with a good pedal is noisier, and has less gain than this amp.
But the mids....man, addictive is the word. When you told me about the 2204 Langner you had, and the mids I was intrigued to try one. At 6k or whatever they go for, well I wasn't gonna pay that. But now I see what you meant by the Langner mids...I hate to sound like a TGP reject lol but they are indeed addictive without being 'annoying' or overbearing.
Just a killer amp, I'll be gigging with it soon as one of my old bands is doing a 'reunion' show in a few weeks....another plus is the amps ability to clean up with the guitar vol for a decent 'dirty' clean.....crazy when you consider 5 gain stages....
 
Racerxrated said:
Spot on!

I differ in that I have enjoyed other modded Marshalls, some more than others but yes it is hard to beat a pedal in front of a stock 2203/1959. But this Langner mod that Mike does is in a league of its own. Camerons have good greasy feel and the best of the modded Marshalls until I got this mod. Now the 46-2 Marshall is up there with the Snorkler, C+s and Naylor SDs as the best of the best for feel. Clarity is amazing esp when you know it's 5(!) gain stages....and, super quiet. A 2203 with a good pedal is noisier, and has less gain than this amp.
But the mids....man, addictive is the word. When you told me about the 2204 Langner you had, and the mids I was intrigued to try one. At 6k or whatever they go for, well I wasn't gonna pay that. But now I see what you meant by the Langner mids...I hate to sound like a TGP reject lol but they are indeed addictive without being 'annoying' or overbearing.
Just a killer amp, I'll be gigging with it soon as one of my old bands is doing a 'reunion' show in a few weeks....another plus is the amps ability to clean up with the guitar vol for a decent 'dirty' clean.....crazy when you consider 5 gain stages....
Click to expand...
At the time I did love some other modded Marshall's I had, but once I compared them to good stock ones I just felt a lot was lacking or got lost in the mod in exchange for just a lot of gain, compression and tighter. Cameron's were my favorite mods for a few years though until I discovered other stuff I liked more. This, the Snorkler and Morin are the 3 for me that I actually enjoy more than stock Marshall's (for high gain at least) with their own unique qualities that I also couldn't get in the stock ones with any pedals I had

Yeah it's mids growl and don't get whiny or annoying like sometimes you can get with V30's and what you mentioned when you stack that with other amps that also have that kind of sound. Maybe it's about certain areas in the midrange frequency range. I'm not sure. The 20w GB's also I love because they growl without the annoying stuff going on, but brighter/higher sitting mids than this mods voicing. With the 20's maybe it's more of a grind they give
 
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Saying you don't like modded Marshalls is like saying you don't like sunshine.

Just about everyone loves sunshine.

But then again, YMMV!
 
Markedman said:
Saying you don't like modded Marshalls is like saying you don't like sunshine.

Just about everyone loves sunshine.

But then again, YMMV!
Click to expand...
One day I shall hear the call of the Deep Dark, and I may resist it for a time, but in the end i will dig. Soon we will return to the depths of the earth from which we came and abandon the cursed surface realm, where we are forced to live under the tyranny of the harsh Sun.
 
Markedman said:
Saying you don't like modded Marshalls is like saying you don't like sunshine.

Just about everyone loves sunshine.

But then again, YMMV!
Click to expand...
Many of those modded Marshall’s were at first impressive on their own to me with all their added gain, saturation, heavier voicing and whatnot, but then live with it for a bit, AB it with other benchmark amps, especially good vintage stock ones boosted and their shortcomings were just exposed for me, especially the core parts of the Marshall tone I love that often get stripped away (kerrang, rawness, midrange characteristics as some qualities). Maybe that’s being a party pooper/buzzkill for some, but just reality for me

The 3 modders I mentioned that I love didn’t fall flat for me in the necessary comparisons I like to do. If anything it made them shine more. That’s what good modded Marshall’s should do, where most others I’ve had failed for me in that way. Just my opinion/findings as always. Not trying to be so harsh on them, but just cutting to the chase as unnecessary stuff as far as I’m concerned
 
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Congrats Sam, these sound killer! I was considering going after one but as life tends to go, bad timing at the moment.
As far as Marshalls go, I've only had a couple late 70's stock JMPs, a 2555x, and a few modded (Gower, Monomyth, and GZ). The GZ MOAB+ is not only the best of that bunch, but it is the best amp overall that I've owned to date in every conceivable way for my taste.
 
MetalHeadMike said:
Congrats Sam, these sound killer! I was considering going after one but as life tends to go, bad timing at the moment.
As far as Marshalls go, I've only had a couple late 70's stock JMPs, a 2555x, and a few modded (Gower, Monomyth, and GZ). The GZ MOAB+ is not only the best of that bunch, but it is the best amp overall that I've owned to date in every conceivable way for my taste.
Click to expand...
It's good that the GZ amp fits you, Mike. The vintage Marshalls you've had, you didn't care for much. To me, you like a more 'modern' sound and less 'vintage modified'. The one GZ amp I played was a GZ 79 2204. Cool amp, had plenty of tight gain and good clarity. But, it was stripped a bit of the 'vintage Marshall' DNA that I enjoy, and made into a more modern tone. Not something I like or care for esp out of a vintage Marshall. I want the original circuit parts, transformers etc to stay where they are and keep that vintage Marshall sound but turn it into a fire breather. That's what Mike did to my 72 Trem. I'm sure he could turn it into a more modern version that you would like more if you wanted. For me, I value the vintage in these old Marshalls and want them to retain all the vintage tone but made into a tight gain monster, with amazing feel and clarity....
46-2 absolutely nails that vibe. No other modded Marshall approaches this sound, as well as this 46-2 Langner type 5 stage mod.
 
MetalHeadMike said:
Congrats Sam, these sound killer! I was considering going after one but as life tends to go, bad timing at the moment.
As far as Marshalls go, I've only had a couple late 70's stock JMPs, a 2555x, and a few modded (Gower, Monomyth, and GZ). The GZ MOAB+ is not only the best of that bunch, but it is the best amp overall that I've owned to date in every conceivable way for my taste.
Click to expand...
Those mods would be tighter and more modern leaning (at least of the multiple examples of each of those I had), but if I’m being honest also had exactly the qualities I mentioned of what didn’t care for in my modded Marshall’s and felt other amps I had did better at the quantities I felt they excelled at (which to me weren’t the kind of qualities Marshall’s really naturally excel at)

The Langner mod is to me a much more tonally rich, organic type of sound that not only preserves what I like in the Marshall mids, but actually makes it better than stock with more growl and juice in that region rather than all these other mods I’ve had that strip tone away there (all the good Marshally stuff happening in that region) and make the amps come off hollow and distant to me vs the stock counterparts. It’s basically like a much better version of what myself and others try to get in these stock amps boosted. For me that’s what a good Marshall mod should be. Play to the amp’s natural forte and try to improve from there rather than make it into something it’s not. I do though also really love the Snorkler and Morin mod that are going for something very different
 
Racerxrated said:
It's good that the GZ amp fits you, Mike. The vintage Marshalls you've had, you didn't care for much. To me, you like a more 'modern' sound and less 'vintage modified'. The one GZ amp I played was a GZ 79 2204. Cool amp, had plenty of tight gain and good clarity. But, it was stripped a bit of the 'vintage Marshall' DNA that I enjoy, and made into a more modern tone. Not something I like or care for esp out of a vintage Marshall. I want the original circuit parts, transformers etc to stay where they are and keep that vintage Marshall sound but turn it into a fire breather. That's what Mike did to my 72 Trem. I'm sure he could turn it into a more modern version that you would like more if you wanted. For me, I value the vintage in these old Marshalls and want them to retain all the vintage tone but made into a tight gain monster, with amazing feel and clarity....
46-2 absolutely nails that vibe. No other modded Marshall approaches this sound, as well as this 46-2 Langner type 5 stage mod.
Click to expand...
That’s exactly what this and the OG Langner mod I had are. It’s basically a great vintage Marshall sound with a large high gain steroid injection. Maybe like a bodybuilder who took the right stuff without ruining their physique, while the mods I don’t like are maybe like the bodybuilders that use sight enhancing oil and other crap to artificially make them look bigger in some muscles and it just looks off

IME modern doesn’t always have to be so sterile or worse, but is seems hard to get right. Some of my favorite all time amps imo sound as modern to me as anything like Larry and some Hermansson’s (not all IME) without the stuff that ruins it for me. I’d bet if 46-2 did something more modern he can find that balance of not sterilizing or overly homogenizing the core tone, while giving the modern good characteristics like tightness and whatnot

I think the Snorkler mod is another good example. Guys don’t talk about it, but with the switches set the right way it can be the next tightest, fastest amp I’ve tried besides just Larry and Hermansson without any of the types of modern qualities I hate. I get overall a ‘90’s vibe from it though rather than modern, but killer either way
 
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braintheory said:
Some of you may have seen his recent progress on this 1972 SuperLead 100. Well it was mine and didn’t wanna say anything yet lol, but it’s what I was hoping for and more importantly not what I was dreading as typical things I don’t like in modded Marshall’s. I had before a Langner modded 1980 JMP2204 and it was my favorite modded Marshall at the time I had it. It was like a much better, more pissed off Cameron mod to me with better, greasier feel too (this was from me actually AB’ing it with many other Cameron mods). It had a very rich, growly, juicy, midrange. The only things I didn’t like about was it sounded kind of small/narrow even for a 50w amp I’m guessing from its low plate voltage and was a bit noisy. Well this one has what I loved about that one with the horsepower that one was missing and is actually very low noise for how much gain it has (a lot!). It may actually have a throatier growl than that one in the lower part of the mids and less hair in the treble. The added knobs on the back are also nice shaping tools (depth, NFB and mid slope)

I’m both happy and relieved. I’m relieved because I honestly didn’t love most modded Marshall’s I’ve had/tried (basically all the known modders besides just Soldano or Folkesson at this point). I won’t name the others (would be a really long list anyway LOL), but I’ll just say most other modded Marshall’s I’ve had when AB’ed often sounded either sterile/no soul, filtered or distant vs a good stock Marshall counterpart boosted, but many mods were impressive to me before doing comparisons. I remember Cameron himself admitted it’s hard to mod a Marshall to be as good or better than a good stock one boosted. For a while I was anti mod and thought just boost a good stock Marshall, but that Langner 2204 had me change my mind 3 years ago now

Since then the 3 mods I’ve had to be legit for me (some of my favorite amps) have been this Langner/Bay Area Thrash mod, Bogner Snorkler mod (not the blue board ones that aren’t a Snorkler) and Morin mod. They’re all super different flavors from each other that I’d play for different styles. This is my overall favorite of the 3. These 3 showed me the right mod can actually be legit

In short, TLDR, this mod delivers a really growly, rich, woody, juicy tone with amazing midrange and is pretty tight, but the feel has give/elasticity to it. My favorite amp for these descriptors. I greatly prefer it to the many Cameron’s I’ve had and tired by at least 2 notches above as does someone else I know with this mod. This for me is the current benchmark of what a good modded Marshall should be. @FourT6and2 if you’re reading this please don’t lose my spot for the other amp I want modded lol
Click to expand...

Hell yeah, I'm happy you're happy! :) Thank you again for trusting me with your amp.

And don't worry, I haven't forgotten about your other request. I'll reach out soon with info.
 
phil b said:
Clips or its a Gorilla mod done by Billy Blades' ... Oh hell.. lost my train of thought! I really would love to here this in all its glory.. Room/phone clips are fine. Thank you sir!
Click to expand...

There are iPhone clips in the build threads or on my YouTube page (same screen name).
 
FourT6and2 said:
Hell yeah, I'm happy you're happy! :) Thank you again for trusting me with your amp.

And don't worry, I haven't forgotten about your other request. I'll reach out soon with info.
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For sure! I know I’m a picky bastard haha and you delivered!!

Yes very interested in that. I think between that and maybe Recto’s if doable in the future can make for something potentially even more different/unique to what’s out there now
 
braintheory said:
That’s exactly what this and the OG Langner mod I had are. It’s basically a great vintage Marshall sound with a large high gain steroid injection. Maybe like a bodybuilder who took the right stuff without ruining their physique, while the mods I don’t like are maybe like the bodybuilders that use sight enhancing oil and other crap to artificially make them look bigger in some muscles and it just looks off

IME modern doesn’t always have to be so sterile or worse, but is seems hard to get right. Some of my favorite all time amps imo sound as modern to me as anything like Larry and some Hermansson’s (not all IME) without the stuff that ruins it for me. I’d bet if 46-2 did something more modern he can find that balance of not sterilizing or overly homogenizing the core tone, while giving the modern good characteristics like tightness and whatnot

I think the Snorkler mod is another good example. Guys don’t talk about it, but with the switches set the right way it can be the next tightest, fastest amp I’ve tried besides just Larry and Hermansson without any of the types of modern qualities I hate. I get overall a ‘90’s vibe from it though rather than modern, but killer either way
Click to expand...

Yeah I can absolutely make this mod sound more modern or more vintage or tighter or looser or smoother or darker or brighter or whatever. I actually play more modern metal, myself. But I still like a sound that has body and character and a certain woody sweetness to it. What I don't like is just a wall of gain/white noise.

A lot of metal bands just sound like a wall of static that cuts in/out with the drums. But some know what they're doing. A good example of some great growly, modern high-gain is Cattle Decapitation. I'm loving the tones here:

 
braintheory said:
Those mods would be tighter and more modern leaning (at least of the multiple examples of each of those I had), but if I’m being honest also had exactly the qualities I mentioned of what didn’t care for in my modded Marshall’s and felt other amps I had did better at the quantities I felt they excelled at (which to me weren’t the kind of qualities Marshall’s really naturally excel at)

The Langner mod is to me a much more tonally rich, organic type of sound that not only preserves what I like in the Marshall mids, but actually makes it better than stock with more growl and juice in that region rather than all these other mods I’ve had that strip tone away there (all the good Marshally stuff happening in that region) and make the amps come off hollow and distant to me vs the stock counterparts. It’s basically like a much better version of what myself and others try to get in these stock amps boosted. For me that’s what a good Marshall mod should be. Play to the amp’s natural forte and try to improve from there rather than make it into something it’s not. I do though also really love the Snorkler and Morin mod that are going for something very different
Click to expand...
We of course all have different ears and tastes for sure and you and I have talked about it a lot over the years. I totally understand your comments about amps being sterile, overly filtered, cardboard, plastic.

Flat, synthetic, processed, inorganic, cold & sterile, lacking warmth...those are the terms I use that I think mean the same thing. I don't care for amps with those qualities either. There can be some other good things about amps like that but overall I tire of them real quick. Especially when you A/B them next to amps with the opposite qualities.

The MOAB+ I have is 180 degrees from any of those terms. It can be the most juicy fun to play aggressive but warm amp with great organic qualities and great clarity or it can be the most open, raw, punchy tone I've heard out of any Marshall, or any other amp for that matter. I'd go as far as to say it also has a level of articulation and definition that surpasses even any Wizard.

Its more organic-natural-warm and at the same time aggressive than anything else I've had...including every single Wizard. Is the one I got somehow different from others? I have no idea, but this one is about the best tone and feel from an amp of the many I've owned.

I'll end this rant in pure RigTalk fashion...My tone search is over, no more GAS, I'll never buy another amp again, this is it, I'm done, its the best amp I've ever played in my life, but my MOAB+ will be for sale next month...LOL!

EDIT: If my wife could read the above statement, she'd die laughing or punch me in the dick, or both, because she knows how sick in the fuckin head we all are on this site and full of shit we are, no matter how much we think we mean it when say "that's it, I'm done, no more amps"...LOL!
 
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FourT6and2 said:
Yeah I can absolutely make this mod sound more modern or more vintage or tighter or looser or smoother or darker or brighter or whatever. I actually play more modern metal, myself. But I still like a sound that has body and character and a certain woody sweetness to it. What I don't like is just a wall of gain/white noise.

A lot of metal bands just sound like a wall of static that cuts in/out with the drums. But some know what they're doing. A good example of some great growly, modern high-gain is Cattle Decapitation. I'm loving the tones here:

Click to expand...

Cool to see the cattle decap post, your stuff sounds like it’s awesome. Josh has used the super hi I think the last few albums blended with a 6505 sounds great. Dave otero (producer mixer) has a video where he shows the tones individually. Actually liked it better without the 6505 lol.
 
Brandonrz said:
Cool to see the cattle decap post, your stuff sounds like it’s awesome. Josh has used the super hi I think the last few albums blended with a 6505 sounds great. Dave otero (producer mixer) has a video where he shows the tones individually. Actually liked it better without the 6505 lol.
Click to expand...

Yep, I have a Super-Hi too. Between that amp (which I've modded) and my modded Super Trem, I'm basically set. Josh is a total gear head with a good ear as well and is a beast on the guitar.

My Super-Hi has more growl and bark and less compression. The Super Trem with this Bay Area Thrash mod, as I've been doing it for people, is juicier and has more saturation. The additional gain stage adds more compression. That's just the nature of the game. But I can tweak it in all sorts of ways. The one I built for myself is tighter and has more growl.
 
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