NAD: Diezel Herbert mkII

[braintheory]

-I'll have to find that video of peter talking about the differences, here's why I ask, I run a stereo rig, I need something that can keep up with a 100w WIZARD MC II, first thing that came to my mind was the HERB, polar opposites, but if the MK II has more headroom than the MK I, that might be a match made in heaven, or it would totally suck, plan B would be another WIZARD.

-appreciate the input

From my experience (having owned/played the VH4 & Herbert side by side with a Wizard MTL and MC/MCII) Nothing can keep up with that MCII except an MTL.

...and maybe an SLO

I will say that my Fryette UL is the closest amp I've played to my Wizard MTL and my favorite 2 amp tone of all time was the UL and VH4

-funny you mention the SLO, that was plan "C".

I still have yet to try an slo, I'm not much classic rock, mainly metal, you think it does metal?
I've thought about one many times, but I see mainly rock guys using them

It certainly can but it's not gonna be as mid-scooped as the Herbert with the mid-cut.

Thanks bud!
So what does metal better? SLO or wizard mtl?

The Wizard of course! , but I really want an SLO, not because I like it better....more because it's an iconic amp and I want one in the stable.

I will admit, all these Diezel threads are giving me GAS for another Diezel, but I'd probably end up selling it again.

I agree. Both my SLO and VH4 sounded small and tame next to the 96 Wizard MC I used to own, but I now have a 2016 MTL which sounds much better than my old MC. Don't worry about the SLO being so iconic, it's very overrated, and with the other amps in your sig like the Wizards, it's unlikely you'd keep the SLO

 

[RedB4Black]

I agree. Both my SLO and VH4 sounded small and tame next to the 96 Wizard MC I used to own, but I now have a 2016 MTL which sounds much better than my old MC. Don't worry about the SLO being so iconic, it's very overrated, and with the other amps in your sig like the Wizards, it's unlikely you'd keep the SLO

I hear you, which is why I haven't pulled the trigger on the SLO yet. I think the MCII does what the SLO does and does it better - but you know GAS. My buddy has an SLO and he brings it over a lot, so I do get to play one every now and then. I think his is loaded with 6550s and it sounds incredible. Same with his VH4. I should just be happy to play his amps from time to time and save the cash. There's an MC25 for sale on TGP that is giving me urges as well.

 

[braintheory]

I agree. Both my SLO and VH4 sounded small and tame next to the 96 Wizard MC I used to own, but I now have a 2016 MTL which sounds much better than my old MC. Don't worry about the SLO being so iconic, it's very overrated, and with the other amps in your sig like the Wizards, it's unlikely you'd keep the SLO

I hear you, which is why I haven't pulled the trigger on the SLO yet. I think the MCII does what the SLO does and does it better - but you know GAS. My buddy has an SLO and he brings it over a lot, so I do get to play one every now and then. I think his is loaded with 6550s and it sounds incredible. Same with his VH4. I should just be happy to play his amps from time to time and save the cash. There's an MC25 for sale on TGP that is giving me urges as well.

Between my Wizard and Mark IIC+, I found no reason to keep the SLO. I also AB'ed, not long ago, a 2016 BE with the SLO and preferred the BE. To my ears, the SLO doesn't have as complete of a growl to it on powerchords as some other amps, and the BE was MUCH better than the SLO for tight, defined chugs.

 

[LunatiBSW]

Wizard gas

 

[sg guy]

Wizard gas

-

-I never heard a clip of a WIZARD that helps you understand what your getting, I hate to throw words like "feel"-" 3-D"-"HUGE"-"dynamic" around, but that's what a WIZARD is, a SLO has this DNA as well, just not as much, the WIZARD MC II will easily do metal, but its not voiced like that classic, compressed, German, high gain thing that I love, I keep thinking back on the HERB, I bought it when it first came out with all the hype, sold it, all these years later I still think of it, what I would do differently, the HERB just throw's this wall of huge anger at you, when I first got the WIZARD I started thinking of that same effect, as the HERB, I'm thinking the HERB dialed in low &mid with V-30's & a 15" FULLBACK-(love this FUCKIN speaker)-the WIZARD dialed in mid & high heavy-(V-30's & 55hz greenbacks)-

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Wizard gas

-

-I never heard a clip of a WIZARD that helps you understand what your getting, I hate to throw words like "feel"-" 3-D"-"HUGE"-"dynamic" around, but that's what a WIZARD is, a SLO has this DNA as well, just not as much, the WIZARD MC II will easily do metal, but its not voiced like that classic, compressed, German, high gain thing that I love, I keep thinking back on the HERB, I bought it when it first came out with all the hype, sold it, all these years later I still think of it, what I would do differently, the HERB just throw's this wall of huge anger at you, when I first got the WIZARD I started thinking of that same effect, as the HERB, I'm thinking the HERB dialed in low &mid with V-30's & a 15" FULLBACK-(love this FUCKIN speaker)-the WIZARD dialed in mid & high heavy-(V-30's & 55hz greenbacks)-

That's about what led me back to buy another Herbert as well. Just what you said. It's that massive huge wall of thick sound crashing in around you... like getting caught in a tube for all the suffers out there. It just something really special... and not easily forgotten.

Now if I wind up buying a Wizard I blame all of you enablers!!!

 

[RedB4Black]

Wizard gas

-

-I never heard a clip of a WIZARD that helps you understand what your getting, I hate to throw words like "feel"-" 3-D"-"HUGE"-"dynamic" around, but that's what a WIZARD is, a SLO has this DNA as well, just not as much, the WIZARD MC II will easily do metal, but its not voiced like that classic, compressed, German, high gain thing that I love, I keep thinking back on the HERB, I bought it when it first came out with all the hype, sold it, all these years later I still think of it, what I would do differently, the HERB just throw's this wall of huge anger at you, when I first got the WIZARD I started thinking of that same effect, as the HERB, I'm thinking the HERB dialed in low &mid with V-30's & a 15" FULLBACK-(love this FUCKIN speaker)-the WIZARD dialed in mid & high heavy-(V-30's & 55hz greenbacks)-

That's about what led me back to buy another Herbert as well. Just what you said. It's that massive huge wall of thick sound crashing in around you... like getting caught in a tube for all the suffers out there. It just something really special... and not easily forgotten.

Now if I wind up buying a Wizard I blame all of you enablers!!!

Do it. Lol

I love the MTL but I may like the MCII even more, even though it's not voiced as "metal" as the MTL

You gotta play one to understand it!

 

[SavageRiffer]

I used to run my Herbert in stereo with my Uber TJ. Loved that combo.

Oh god not Adelbro. I thought he was gone for good....

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=188373 Bro is on the hunt for an Uber...Amp Jihad

We should all take turns messaging him offering him an Uber rev blue. Bro will go ape shit.

WWIII Ampsearch

"but he told me to try a Twin Jet...." LMAO! That was funny as hell!

 

[sg guy]

-you'll never regret buying a WIZARD or a HERB, your wife,wallet and hungry kids eating ramen noodles!! your on your own on that one..

 

[LunatiBSW]

Wizard gas

-

-I never heard a clip of a WIZARD that helps you understand what your getting, I hate to throw words like "feel"-" 3-D"-"HUGE"-"dynamic" around, but that's what a WIZARD is, a SLO has this DNA as well, just not as much, the WIZARD MC II will easily do metal, but its not voiced like that classic, compressed, German, high gain thing that I love, I keep thinking back on the HERB, I bought it when it first came out with all the hype, sold it, all these years later I still think of it, what I would do differently, the HERB just throw's this wall of huge anger at you, when I first got the WIZARD I started thinking of that same effect, as the HERB, I'm thinking the HERB dialed in low &mid with V-30's & a 15" FULLBACK-(love this FUCKIN speaker)-the WIZARD dialed in mid & high heavy-(V-30's & 55hz greenbacks)-

That's about what led me back to buy another Herbert as well. Just what you said. It's that massive huge wall of thick sound crashing in around you... like getting caught in a tube for all the suffers out there. It just something really special... and not easily forgotten.

Now if I wind up buying a Wizard I blame all of you enablers!!!

I thought I knew, but......
I never knew "wall of sound" till this Herbert

 

[Les Zombie]

How many of you guys are boosting your herbert's, i pretty much play mine boosted 90% of the time, i dont like it as much without the boost. I play mine through a rear loaded diezel 4x12 or my uberkab.

 

[LunatiBSW]

How many of you guys are boosting your herbert's, i pretty much play mine boosted 90% of the time, i dont like it as much without the boost. I play mine through a rear loaded diezel 4x12 or my uberkab.

Depends on the cab, but if using active pickups no boost. Sometime with my rearload v30 it benefits from boosting if I need more attack. With the k100 FL, no boost needed, lots of attack and aggression.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

How many of you guys are boosting your herbert's, i pretty much play mine boosted 90% of the time, i dont like it as much without the boost. I play mine through a rear loaded diezel 4x12 or my uberkab.

No boost. Maybe if I downtuned past drop C which I don't do. It sounds fine with a boost as I've tried it, but not 100% needed like a Recto.

Is your UberKab FL or RL?

 

[Les Zombie]

My uberkab is rear loaded.

I played my herb all week without a boost, i was hoping to like playing it better without it but i cant, im so used to boosting and love the feel and sound of it boosted i cant stop haha.
Another amp i always boost is my uberschall rev blue, anytime i play without the boost i feel like my amp attack is slower and dragging in the lows if that makes sense, and my ears are really used to the extra frequencies that the boost adds. Ive been doing it so long that i dont like my amps without it i guess. Maybe if i had a front loaded cab it would change my mind.

I dont boost my jp2c, i think that amp is one of the few that i like without a boost along with a vht ultra lead. I played a jerry cantrell friedman a few times in the past month and a be-100 and they both sounded great but i am curious if it would be even better to my ears boosted haha.
Vh4 is another amp i dont like boosted.

 

[LunatiBSW]

My uberkab is rear loaded.

I played my herb all week without a boost, i was hoping to like playing it better without it but i cant, im so used to boosting and love the feel and sound of it boosted i cant stop haha.
Another amp i always boost is my uberschall rev blue, anytime i play without the boost i feel like my amp attack is slower and dragging in the lows if that makes sense, and my ears are really used to the extra frequencies that the boost adds. Ive been doing it so long that i dont like my amps without it i guess. Maybe if i had a front loaded cab it would change my mind.

I dont boost my jp2c, i think that amp is one of the few that i like without a boost along with a vht ultra lead. I played a herry cantrell friedman a few times in the past month and a be-100 and they both sounded great but i am curious if it would be even better to my ears boosted haha.
Vh4 is another amp i dont like boosted.

If you had a FL cab, it will give you a lot more attack

 

[RJF]

There's not much difference between MK1 and 2 Herberts. One of the transformers is different and there is more headroom on the clean channel. Why that was changed, I have no idea. A MK1 can get blazingly loud on CH1 while still being clean. The Herbert to own, IMHO, is a MK1 with external bias points. It's so easy to change tubes and rebias when you have external test points and pots.

Imho, tube changes are like yearly or every other year for me, plus I like seeing the guts.
The guy above also still took the chassis out, so that's the same work.
I'd rather have the better tone. Bigger tranny = bigger tone. Everyone's ears are diff, some people can't tell difference between non similar amps, so your opinions are your opinions. I feel like there is some defensiveness with the mk1 and II thing. Y'all say small differences. But most of us spend a primo on these boutique amps because we have more discerning ears. We can tell the differences
But in my experience with business, new revisions are warranted when there are significant enough changes from an original.
I'm not gonna by an old One to compare, but Since I know wizard of ozz had his mk1 for over 5 years and now has extensive knowledge with mkII (owning, not just playing a few times), and we have similar styles and tastes. Im going to trust his judgement on the tone.
sorry to say there's gonna be differences. It doesn't make the mk1 bad, just the OG.
I love my Herbert MkII, it's a lifer amp. Gives me lowend like no other.
Volumes sound as good or better at tv volumes than any high gainer out, you turn it up, it gets better, doesn't fall apart. Heavy, biggest transformers I've seen in an amp.

Still wouldn't mind trying a wizard sometime though. But the herb wouldn't leave to do it.

You don't have to remove the chassis from the headshell if you are using a multi meter. With a bias right type tool, yes. But, that is what is nice about external bias points. No need for a bias right.

There was a lot of talk about the mk1 vs mk2 years ago on the Diezel forum when the Mk2 actually came out. Most people, and Peter included, said that there was very little to no tone change on channel 2 and 3. Peter said it was mainly to address clean channel break up issues and to comply with new German law to no longer have external test points. I wouldn't buy into any high gain tone changes unless only one set of preamp and power amp tubes are used and swapped between the two Herberts to get a real A/B comparison, and to my knowledge no one has done here on RT. Supposedly, the best sounding Herberts are the very first few with the cloth grille that were voiced initially a bit tighter. Never heard or seen one in person myself though.

Yes, I run a boost 100% of the time, with it set exactly like how you posted in that Dmoll thread of yours. Without it, it's just not the same.

 

[LunatiBSW]

There's not much difference between MK1 and 2 Herberts. One of the transformers is different and there is more headroom on the clean channel. Why that was changed, I have no idea. A MK1 can get blazingly loud on CH1 while still being clean. The Herbert to own, IMHO, is a MK1 with external bias points. It's so easy to change tubes and rebias when you have external test points and pots.

Imho, tube changes are like yearly or every other year for me, plus I like seeing the guts.
The guy above also still took the chassis out, so that's the same work.
I'd rather have the better tone. Bigger tranny = bigger tone. Everyone's ears are diff, some people can't tell difference between non similar amps, so your opinions are your opinions. I feel like there is some defensiveness with the mk1 and II thing. Y'all say small differences. But most of us spend a primo on these boutique amps because we have more discerning ears. We can tell the differences
But in my experience with business, new revisions are warranted when there are significant enough changes from an original.
I'm not gonna by an old One to compare, but Since I know wizard of ozz had his mk1 for over 5 years and now has extensive knowledge with mkII (owning, not just playing a few times), and we have similar styles and tastes. Im going to trust his judgement on the tone.
sorry to say there's gonna be differences. It doesn't make the mk1 bad, just the OG.
I love my Herbert MkII, it's a lifer amp. Gives me lowend like no other.
Volumes sound as good or better at tv volumes than any high gainer out, you turn it up, it gets better, doesn't fall apart. Heavy, biggest transformers I've seen in an amp.

Still wouldn't mind trying a wizard sometime though. But the herb wouldn't leave to do it.

You don't have to remove the chassis from the headshell if you are using a multi meter. With a bias right type tool, yes. But, that is what is nice about external bias points. No need for a bias right.

There was a lot of talk about the mk1 vs mk2 years ago on the Diezel forum when the Mk2 actually came out. Most people, and Peter included, said that there was very little to no tone change on channel 2 and 3. Peter said it was mainly to address clean channel break up issues and to comply with new German law to no longer have external test points. I wouldn't buy into any high gain tone changes unless only one set of preamp and power amp tubes are used and swapped between the two Herberts to get a real A/B comparison, and to my knowledge no one has done here on RT. Supposedly, the best sounding Herberts are the very first few with the cloth grille that were voiced initially a bit tighter. Never heard or seen one in person myself though.

Yes, I run a boost 100% of the time, with it set exactly like how you posted in that Dmoll thread of yours. Without it, it's just not the same.

I give it to you, you know your Diezel history. Thanks !!

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

There's not much difference between MK1 and 2 Herberts. One of the transformers is different and there is more headroom on the clean channel. Why that was changed, I have no idea. A MK1 can get blazingly loud on CH1 while still being clean. The Herbert to own, IMHO, is a MK1 with external bias points. It's so easy to change tubes and rebias when you have external test points and pots.

Imho, tube changes are like yearly or every other year for me, plus I like seeing the guts.
The guy above also still took the chassis out, so that's the same work.
I'd rather have the better tone. Bigger tranny = bigger tone. Everyone's ears are diff, some people can't tell difference between non similar amps, so your opinions are your opinions. I feel like there is some defensiveness with the mk1 and II thing. Y'all say small differences. But most of us spend a primo on these boutique amps because we have more discerning ears. We can tell the differences
But in my experience with business, new revisions are warranted when there are significant enough changes from an original.
I'm not gonna by an old One to compare, but Since I know wizard of ozz had his mk1 for over 5 years and now has extensive knowledge with mkII (owning, not just playing a few times), and we have similar styles and tastes. Im going to trust his judgement on the tone.
sorry to say there's gonna be differences. It doesn't make the mk1 bad, just the OG.
I love my Herbert MkII, it's a lifer amp. Gives me lowend like no other.
Volumes sound as good or better at tv volumes than any high gainer out, you turn it up, it gets better, doesn't fall apart. Heavy, biggest transformers I've seen in an amp.

Still wouldn't mind trying a wizard sometime though. But the herb wouldn't leave to do it.

You don't have to remove the chassis from the headshell if you are using a multi meter. With a bias right type tool, yes. But, that is what is nice about external bias points. No need for a bias right.

There was a lot of talk about the mk1 vs mk2 years ago on the Diezel forum when the Mk2 actually came out. Most people, and Peter included, said that there was very little to no tone change on channel 2 and 3. Peter said it was mainly to address clean channel break up issues and to comply with new German law to no longer have external test points. I wouldn't buy into any high gain tone changes unless only one set of preamp and power amp tubes are used and swapped between the two Herberts to get a real A/B comparison, and to my knowledge no one has done here on RT. Supposedly, the best sounding Herberts are the very first few with the cloth grille that were voiced initially a bit tighter. Never heard or seen one in person myself though.

Yes, I run a boost 100% of the time, with it set exactly like how you posted in that Dmoll thread of yours. Without it, it's just not the same.

Ummm... yeah... I'm going have to disagree with some of this... ummmm.... okay?

Peter states really clearly, and concisely what the differences are between the MKI & MKII in the Herbert video right here posted on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUAo_Nmw4zM

Both the power and output transformers were changed. They are now much bigger and heavier... the total amp weight increased by 3 pounds. That's a good amount of steel and iron. And you bet that will change the tone.

The original Herbert MKI design, which has the first 20 amps, really wasn't a huge success as it was a very tight, super focused amp with nowhere near the amount of bottom end it has now. More like a Randall Satan or Fryette UL for a tone reference. There were only 2 USA dealers when they were released in the USA around 2002 thereabouts, which were Tone Merchants in CA (Ed Yoon) and UltraSound Studios in NYC (Gene/Ken). Peter and Ed at TM tweaked the design quite a bit from the original 20 production units to add a bunch more additional bass, and the voicing of the channel 2 "+" mode, and work on the clean channel. There is also a MK1.5 version that occurred somewhere around serial #100-120 where the clean channel was made to have more chime, and high-end treble like a Fender Blackface Twin (aka clean channel mod). No former owner that I know would take one of the 1st 20 Herbert over the current incarnation. They are very different amps.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

My uberkab is rear loaded.

I played my herb all week without a boost, i was hoping to like playing it better without it but i cant, im so used to boosting and love the feel and sound of it boosted i cant stop haha.
Another amp i always boost is my uberschall rev blue, anytime i play without the boost i feel like my amp attack is slower and dragging in the lows if that makes sense, and my ears are really used to the extra frequencies that the boost adds. Ive been doing it so long that i dont like my amps without it i guess. Maybe if i had a front loaded cab it would change my mind.

I dont boost my jp2c, i think that amp is one of the few that i like without a boost along with a vht ultra lead. I played a jerry cantrell friedman a few times in the past month and a be-100 and they both sounded great but i am curious if it would be even better to my ears boosted haha.
Vh4 is another amp i dont like boosted.

Get the FL cab.

What pickups in your guitars? High output Alnico V or Ceramic works best. EMGs or actives will compress the signal too much IMHO.

 

[LunatiBSW]

You know your Diezel shit too dude.
I will say the Hetfield emgs sound great with my Herbert, they are clearer though.
Hetfield surely designed them around his vh4 I would think