Need help getting my tone from Torpedo Live

  • Thread starter Thread starter steve10358
  • Start date Start date
S

steve10358

Member
Hello. I've had a Torpedo Live since May or so and have struggled with a variety of things. Right now, my biggest issue is getting my amps to sound as they do in the room with a cab (when mic'd). The tone comes across distorted, small and flat. I am not overdriving any of my input meters and this problem occurs whether I use Pro Tools or the headphone out on the front of the unit. This problem also occurs with stock IR's, Ownhammer and Redwirez. Any tips? I guess it's not as easy as selecting "Matchless cab", Mic and where I would set the mic in real life. lol

Any assistance is appreciated.
 
Hi steve10358,

by any chance did you do a recording you could share, and do you have a traditional miking as a comparison?

The aim of the Torpedo Live is not to sound "like a cabinet in a room" but like a cabinet being miked in a studio room. Both options may look the same to you, but I can tell you they are very different.
 
Thanks for the response.

Just to elaborate- I did not literally mean cabinet in the room. I was looking for tips on how to make my HC30 sound like an HC30 when I've used it with a real cabinet, console, mic, etc as right now I have a very difficult time getting it to sound as it would in a studio. Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks!

EDIT: I just did the update and am having an easier time achieving what I was looking for. I'll mess with it for a while. If I have any further issues, I will post. Thanks.
 
I'd suggest using the same Mic Pre/Record Chain with the LIVE to begin with, then pick the nearest IR to your real setup, and finally dial in that IR selection's virtual mic position (and the LIVE's EQ if need be?).

If using multi-micing you can use Two Note's BlendIR to Mix/EQ IR's as well (i.e. close and room, multiple close mics, rear micing etc).

Also, it's important to duplicate the room tone as much as possible as it's missing in the IR's vs most real micing setups (early reflections), so a quality room sim will help a lot too.

steve10358":11230qzn said:
Thanks for the response.

Just to elaborate- I did not literally mean cabinet in the room. I was looking for tips on how to make my HC30 sound like an HC30 when I've used it with a real cabinet, console, mic, etc as right now I have a very difficult time getting it to sound as it would in a studio. Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks!

EDIT: I just did the update and am having an easier time achieving what I was looking for. I'll mess with it for a while. If I have any further issues, I will post. Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I lot of times, if I start with mics/cabs/positions I'm used to, I can never get it bright enough. What is the preferred method to set this thing up? I currently use the s/pdif (with 003 synced) as it seems louder. If I use the 1/4" out it is too quiet. I have also been going back and forth between power amp and no power amp sim for volume purposes. Seems like a real challenge to get volume into pro tools while keeping the input gain down. Tell me more about room sims as well. Thanks!
 
If I use the 1/4" out it is too quiet.
Click to expand...

:confused: Using a balanced connexion you should have +16dBU, which is A LOT. More than enough to clip any soundcard available on the market.

Where are your input level and output levels? You can check more precisely with the Torpedo Remote. I dont understand either why you would want to keep the input gain down actually.
 
Fair question. By input gain, I meant not overdriving the unit. Possible poor choice of wording but I just meant what the unit is seeing initially. I do not hammer it with Marshall on ten volume or anything. I'm just trying to balance feel, cleanliness and volume.

When I am just flickering -12db at times (and am not in the red on any meter in remote, pro tools or otherwise)- I have a hard time competing with recorded acoustics, etc. And I am not a record everthing at 0db guy. I generally record mic'd acoustic instruments at -15 to -12. I also have to significantly lower plugs in like drum loops, etc and can still have issues getting the electrics to be present while tracking. I'm probably just using the unit incorrectly so any other tips would be cool too.

I know this thing is going to kick ass for me shortly- just want to make sure I am using it correctly.

Thanks!
 
Have you ruled out a potential tube problem? Any issue with the same amp settings and volume just going into a cab?

What kind of amp are you using and what's the wattage? The only time I would ever get unpleasant clipping with my VB-101 is when I would get the master on my 100 watters up to say 1:00-1:30. Even if I trimmed the input and output levels on the VB, there would still be some clipping. But that was also some serious output I was hitting it with. This didn't create the volume part of the issue you're describing, though. Only other thing I can think of is on the VB is if it got hit with too loud of a signal it would automatically drop the input level to avoid clipping. I'm not sure if the Live has the feature, though. If so, maybe that's going on.

Assuming you're using an amp and not a just a preamp, I'd also double check to make sure the power amp section isn't on with the volume low. Do you use the eq with any extreme cuts that may be bringing the volume down?
 
Hmmm, I have none of these issues (with my CAB and tube preamps, not the LIVE though they are similar excepting the DIO and Load)?

You should drive the LIVE with a strong non-clipping level, say peaks around -3 via the Torpedo Remote's metering, power amp off if you're using the LIVE's Built-in Load with a real amp etc, and adjust final output with the Preset and Output Masters (two controls to monitor here!).

One thing you're missing vs your real micing chain is the Mic Pre's color, so I'd suggest using one with the Analog Out vs the Digital Out.

There's lots of EQ available in the LIVE as well. I find the Two Note's Royer 121 a bit darker than the real ones I use, though a little dab of high EQ makes everything fine.

IMO as all mics and pres are different (even those of the same OEM etc), I'd only use what you usually use with real mics as a starting point as all recording situations are unique (source, mic, room, pre, monitoring etc).

If you own the Redwirez IR Library, their Speaker Impedance Curve IR's can be useful too via a separate IR Loader.

Good luck...

steve10358":1cofdnfm said:
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I lot of times, if I start with mics/cabs/positions I'm used to, I can never get it bright enough. What is the preferred method to set this thing up? I currently use the s/pdif (with 003 synced) as it seems louder. If I use the 1/4" out it is too quiet. I have also been going back and forth between power amp and no power amp sim for volume purposes. Seems like a real challenge to get volume into pro tools while keeping the input gain down. Tell me more about room sims as well. Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for confirming how you run your unit, guys. It looks like I am doing the same thing you guys are. It did give me a new idea though. I'll try running the unit through my AML EZ1073 or API 512c and see how I feel. That might work pretty well.

Also- to confirm... NO amp issues! All amps are maintained on a very regular basis. I also do not have any clipping issues presently. Main issue is getting bright enough tones and having the volume be adequate in Pro Tools (again, I'm not clipping on any meter). Amp's I'm using include an HC30, 3rd Power American Dream & a couple old Marshalls. I tend to run clean to midgain tones.

I also try to avoid software EQ because I spent a lot of money getting the right gear for what I want to do and I'd rather just choose a different mic, setting, etc. I do not like to eq my guitar unless it's for mixing purposes (not tonal). Is eq with the torpedo manditory? There's a certain level of clarity I am aiming for that isn't really an "eq" issue imo. I agree the R121 seems dark but I usually run the SM7, Heil, Redwirez or Ownhammer Mix Presets. I am liking the stock IR's after the update best lately. Either way... just yapping and trying to give more info so I can get answers. I'll try the pre idea and see how it goes.

Thanks again!
 
Hmmm, again I haven't used the LIVE's Load, though speaking from the CAB's POV, EQ is only "needed" IMO with the Royer 121.

If you use a Mic Pre post the LIVE you'll have no level issues that's for sure, and better yet add a nice analog EQ to the record chain if needed.

You might try using your amp's preamp into the LIVE and using the Two Note's Power Amp Sims too (assuming you have a Line Out or FX Send etc, I do it that way with tube preamps)?

It's silly IMO to worry about tracking without EQ as most of the great tones of yesteryear were first tracked with EQ to tape, and then EQ'd again for the mix. Just use the EQ correctly, i.e. minimally, and try cutting offending freqs first before boosting desired ones. In any case nobody would know about the EQ but you as it's impossible to tell after the fact.

I vote for the API!

steve10358":y31dvtz7 said:
Thanks for confirming how you run your unit, guys. It looks like I am doing the same thing you guys are. It did give me a new idea though. I'll try running the unit through my AML EZ1073 or API 512c and see how I feel. That might work pretty well.

Also- to confirm... NO amp issues! All amps are maintained on a very regular basis. I also do not have any clipping issues presently. Main issue is getting bright enough tones and having the volume be adequate in Pro Tools (again, I'm not clipping on any meter). Amp's I'm using include an HC30, 3rd Power American Dream & a couple old Marshalls. I tend to run clean to midgain tones.

I also try to avoid software EQ because I spent a lot of money getting the right gear for what I want to do and I'd rather just choose a different mic, setting, etc. I do not like to eq my guitar unless it's for mixing purposes (not tonal). Is eq with the torpedo manditory? There's a certain level of clarity I am aiming for that isn't really an "eq" issue imo. I agree the R121 seems dark but I usually run the SM7, Heil, Redwirez or Ownhammer Mix Presets. I am liking the stock IR's after the update best lately. Either way... just yapping and trying to give more info so I can get answers. I'll try the pre idea and see how it goes.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...
 
Hi!
Steve10358 ,I'm trying to follow this theme with the logical complications of using google translator.
One suggestion: I think it would be interesting if you make some sound samples.
1- With the amplifier, I miked in a traditional way,
2- with amplifier, connected to the Torpedo Live.

Greetings, I'm hoping to get my Torpedo Live ......
 
EDIT: Ok... I might be on to something here. I only have a couple minutes into this but I plugged the Torpedo into my API 512c and went back to using the BLA modded converters in my 003. This is the closest I've come. The levels are no longer buried by the acoustic, it feels good and is the most mic'd-amp-like I've gotten yet. My amp sounds like my amp. Psyched. So far tried it with a couple ownhammer mixes and the Redwirez deluxe-421 IR. Hopefully this isn't premature... but I think I'm getting somewhere. :)

Also- to answer the questions...
1. Most of my amps do not have a line out (or effects loops for that matter).
2. I live in an apartment (hence the Torpedo) so the chances of me a/b'ing a cab at the volume required is next to none. I also do not have a session booked for a while and am not really motivated to drag my stuff out of here just for a quick clip. Hope you guys can understand.
3. EQ: I suppose it's just my recording philosophy. I don't want to be married to eq prior to a mix and I don't want to rely on eq to band aid an issue if it is a problem with how I am using the unit. I am just not a "fix it in the mix" guy. I like my sounds being correct at the source (including mic position- which there are certainly a lot of in this unit!). I am thrilled with my tones and just want to have this unit translate that.
 
Good luck Steve, it sounds to me that your best bet is to make IR's of your rig mic'd the way you like.

Don't forget the golden rule, "if it sounds good, it is good".

steve10358":3es75fdm said:
EDIT: Ok... I might be on to something here. I only have a couple minutes into this but I plugged the Torpedo into my API 512c and went back to using the BLA modded converters in my 003. This is the closest I've come. The levels are no longer buried by the acoustic, it feels good and is the most mic'd-amp-like I've gotten yet. My amp sounds like my amp. Psyched. So far tried it with a couple ownhammer mixes and the Redwirez deluxe-421 IR. Hopefully this isn't premature... but I think I'm getting somewhere. :)

Also- to answer the questions...
1. Most of my amps do not have a line out (or effects loops for that matter).
2. I live in an apartment (hence the Torpedo) so the chances of me a/b'ing a cab at the volume required is next to none. I also do not have a session booked for a while and am not really motivated to drag my stuff out of here just for a quick clip. Hope you guys can understand.
3. EQ: I suppose it's just my recording philosophy. I don't want to be married to eq prior to a mix and I don't want to rely on eq to band aid an issue if it is a problem with how I am using the unit. I am just not a "fix it in the mix" guy. I like my sounds being correct at the source (including mic position- which there are certainly a lot of in this unit!). I am thrilled with my tones and just want to have this unit translate that.
Click to expand...
 
Great rule indeed. As long as I'm not hallucinating right now... I don't think I'll need to make IR's. So happy right now.
 
Just an update... this thing is definitely putting a smile on my face. I really appreciate you guys and your replies to help me work through this. It feels good. It sounds like the mic'd versions of my amp and I finally have the volume I was looking for.

And no eq required. ;)

Thanks again.
 
That's good to read, Steve. ;)

Another rule is to try and post a few sample just to help everybody understand what you're currently achieving and what you're aiming at.

There is not only one way to mix a guitar sound, so it's really hard to give an advice that will work with everybody. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top