Now w/PICS! Hard Ash body, maple neck, Floyd Rose trem, EVH

[Chubtone]

I just had a new guitar put together for me a couple of months ago. It is a late 70's Charvel San Dimas body made from hard ash and weighing in at about 5.25 pounds. It is this ugly transparent brown and is naturally relic'd and just has tons of "mojo". I put a Floyd Rose off of a 1983 Kramer Pacer on it. I used this old Floyd to avoid any potential problems with the new Floyds. I also did the brass big block trem upgrade for the bridge. The guitar has a single Duncan '78 or EVH pickup in the bridge. I also ordered a nice Musikraft one piece maple, vintage construction style neck for it.

So I have never owned a hard ash guitar body before but supposedly this is what EVH used on the infamous Frankie guitar. I have always heard that hard ash is bright. Very bright but also has an articulate low end. So since I didn't want it overly bright and "everyone knows" (conventional internet wisdom) that Floyd Roses make guitars sound even thinner, I used an original early 80's Floyd and added the brass block to it to try and take away some of the Floyds inherent thin sound. I used a maple neck. Everyone knows maple necks are brighter and sound thinner so I got the vintage style single adjustable truss rod as that is warmer sounding. So I am putting hard ash, a Floyd Rose and a maple neck together and I am just hoping it sounds killer, but dreading the potential ear splitting thinness of this combo.

My in laws have been staying at our house the entire 6 weeks I have had this new guitar so I have not plugged it in and cranked it through my amps the entire time I have owned it. I am playing it all the time though. Unplugged and through my little practice amp. It is very resonant and just plays killer. It has so much "vibe" that I am rapidly falling in love with the thing. Really falling in love with it. My in laws left the other day and I rush home from work, turn on a couple of my amps that I know this guitar is going to just kill through. If not kill through, take off my head with treble.

So I plug it in and play. Hmmmm. I plug in a couple other guitars to compare it to. I try the other amp. I stop playing and wait til the next day because maybe my ears were acting weird. Next day, same exact thing. This is the bassiest, muddiest, sludgiest guitar I have EVER heard. It sounds like I am playing through a bass amp. No kidding. I am so freaking bummed because this thing was rapidly becoming a favorite and now I am looking for a new body for it. This body just looks so cool though.

Any ideas on what I can do to help it sound more balanced? Where did I go wrong?

 

[dstroud]

Wierd, I would have never guessed that combo of parts would make for a muddy sound - maybe try the original floyd block?

 

[ratter]

Assuming that it's wired up correctly I don't see how you did anything wrong - you just ran into the luck-of-the-draw that every piece of wood sounds different and 'formulas' that work on paper don't always work in practice...

That said...

 

[Gainfreak]

I own a Hard ash body guitar that I got from performance guitar and the guitar is anything but bright. It has a very vocal sound with cool lower mids.
With that said, mine has an amazing tone but I could never get along with the neck so Im going to replace it.

As far as Im concerned, if the wood doesn't have tone there is nothing that you can do. You can make it sound better but a dull guitar will never sound amazing IMHO YMMV.

 

[Greazygeo]

Id try a few different pickups first. If the guitar sounds good unplugged, then it should be a matter of matching up the right pickup.

 

[Digital Jams]

Was not expecting what you heard, I thought it was going to kill from the description.

I am with Ralph that you just may have one of those bodies that breathes like a rock. Could try some brighter pups before you give up but I have a feeling that body may have to go.

Man that sucks.

 

[strungup]

I agree with Ralph and Sott, that if the body is bad then there is only so much you can do. I don't understand how a dead body would sound resonant unplugged. I have never play a body that sounded dead plugged in that was resonant unplugged. It might just be the pickup pairing like George said.

 

[Chubtone]

Thanks for the replies guys. I just talked to donbarzini and he has had the same experience with ash. It has good sustain, it is resonant when played acoustically but when plugged in the bass frequencies are overwhelming. I guess that body is resonating a lot but it is resonating mainly low frequencies.

The funny thing is I like a decent amount of lows in my sound. But on this guitar, when I solo on the low strings and muffle, there is no click of the pick, no percussive thunk just this loose, jumble of notes, seriously like I was plugged into a bass amp or like someone turned the presence, treble and midrange on my amp almost off. Maybe I'll record a clip and take a pic later when I get home.

 

[70strathead]

remove the floyd, get a titanium block strat bridge and turn it up!

 

[Chubtone]

remove the floyd, get a titanium block strat bridge and turn it up!

I thought Floyds made guitars sound thin? Now are we blaming Floyds for making guitars sound muddy too?

Titanium? I'm trying to build a guitar here Ant, not a freaking fighter plane.

Turn it UP? I'm using 100w Super Leads cranked on 10 with my Hot Plate only set to -8. It is stupid loud. You know how loud I'm talking about my Marshall brother!

And I would really love to talk to you about keeping a vintage strat trem in tune. I have three with Callaham bridges, an old Charvel with a brass bridge and a vintage strat too and they all sound killer but if I look at the bridge they go out of tune.

 

[Greazygeo]

Thanks for the replies guys. I just talked to donbarzini and he has had the same experience with ash. It has good sustain, it is resonant when played acoustically but when plugged in the bass frequencies are overwhelming. I guess that body is resonating a lot but it is resonating mainly low frequencies.

The funny thing is I like a decent amount of lows in my sound. But on this guitar, when I solo on the low strings and muffle, there is no click of the pick, no percussive thunk just this loose, jumble of notes, seriously like I was plugged into a bass amp or like someone turned the presence, treble and midrange on my amp almost off. Maybe I'll record a clip and take a pic later when I get home.

Most guitars I've had ash bodies were swamp ash. Those sound awesome. My old Flying V was the heavier ash though. It was not overly bassy. It sounded killer, but killed my shoulder. Try a Duncan Custom / Distortion before you give up on it.

If the guitar sounds good unplugged, it will sound good amp'd too...you just have to find the right pickup. You have a counter full of Duncan's right?

 

[Strat+Marshall]

I don't think original floyds or maple necks make guitars sound bright or thin.
I have never cared for hard ash, it can sound ok when it is light weight but I've just never really cared for it.

 

[tweed]

No pics? WTF kinda thread is this? I have this killer guitar, blah, blah , blah.....tons of mojo blah, blah, blah...


And not one freaking pic?!?!?!!?

 

[70strathead]

remove the floyd, get a titanium block strat bridge and turn it up!

I thought Floyds made guitars sound thin? Now are we blaming Floyds for making guitars sound muddy too?

Titanium? I'm trying to build a guitar here Ant, not a freaking fighter plane.

Turn it UP? I'm using 100w Super Leads cranked on 10 with my Hot Plate only set to -8. It is stupid loud. You know how loud I'm talking about my Marshall brother!

And I would really love to talk to you about keeping a vintage strat trem in tune. I have three with Callaham bridges, an old Charvel with a brass bridge and a vintage strat too and they all sound killer but if I look at the bridge they go out of tune.

yeah, Im just messing with ya man. : ) As far as strat trem staying in tune, here's a couple things that I've experiemented with throughout the years that have worked for me:

1.) The nut has to be cut with enough spacing and not too deep...I use "Gunk" machine lube everytime I change strings, it has teflon in it which IMO is the best lubricant. i also lube anything that has metal to metal contact on occasion..springs, saddles,etc..especially before a gig!
2.) Use tuners with high poles....when the string come off the nut they need to kept at a certain level so there less resistance. if u can't find those, just make sure the unwound string are coming off the nut at even level...not one lower than the other.
3.) Wind the wound strings from the top one using 2 turns.
4.) If your using 9's, go to .15 instead of a .16...the G-string is notorious for going sharp and if u have it floating trem you can just yank on the bar and it should get back in tune. if you not floating than the lighter guage for some reason reatins tuning better. I think EVH actually used a .15 as the G string.
5.) Technique and ears...I had to change my whole approach to using the trem bar from a flyd to stat trem. not much, but there are certain tricks that you will just naturally discover but it forces you to listen more carefully to whats coming out of the speakers. : )
6.) the obvious, stretch strings.

I know this sounds like a lot, I got it down to a science where its just SOP.

 

[AmpliFIRE]

No pics? WTF kinda thread is this? I have this killer guitar, blah, blah , blah.....tons of mojo blah, blah, blah...


And not one freaking pic?!?!?!!?

+1

 

[Chubtone]

Sorry guys..... guitar is at home. I'll take pics later and post them. You will see why I call this the Turd Ferguson signature model.

 

[stratotone]

What's the finish? Some of the 80s guitars had that thick as hell poly finish glopped on, that will choke the highs off any guitar. I had an Ibanez RG with a corner chip, I swear to god the finish was 1/16th of an inch thick.

Maple/maple necks brighten up the tone considerably. So do floyds.

Could be that body wasn't dry/seasoned when it was finished, so it was still kinda 'oily' so to speak - probably why it's so heavy.

My current favorite tonewood - Korina. I've never owned or played a Korina guitar that didn't sound good to me... my McKorina PRS kills.

Pete

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies guys. I just talked to donbarzini and he has had the same experience with ash. It has good sustain, it is resonant when played acoustically but when plugged in the bass frequencies are overwhelming. I guess that body is resonating a lot but it is resonating mainly low frequencies.

Painting it with really sloppy red, black and white stripes and then beating it up even more will solve all your tone problems. Use Schwin bike paint...

Steve

 

[TOStudent]

Thanks for the replies guys. I just talked to donbarzini and he has had the same experience with ash. It has good sustain, it is resonant when played acoustically but when plugged in the bass frequencies are overwhelming. I guess that body is resonating a lot but it is resonating mainly low frequencies.

The funny thing is I like a decent amount of lows in my sound. But on this guitar, when I solo on the low strings and muffle, there is no click of the pick, no percussive thunk just this loose, jumble of notes, seriously like I was plugged into a bass amp or like someone turned the presence, treble and midrange on my amp almost off. Maybe I'll record a clip and take a pic later when I get home.

Is this the guitar that you plugged into my Cameron when I brought it down?
That heavy one?

 

[itsme]

A Duncan George Lynch Screamin' Demon would definately straighten that out. Nice tight bass, mids, and cut and clarity.