Peavey VTM 60 Marshall TV cab short blast

[Kordoba]

Haven't played much in the last 6 months, but trying to get back into it. And what better way than with a VTM 60, MC 2x12 and Marshall TV cab! VTM is boosted with an MXR GT-OD. Greenbacks and G12K85s. Guitar is my Bauer DBN custom build. Clothes basket features some empty plastic bags.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Cosmetically these things look like they belong in the original Star Trek series but the sound holds up!

 

[Kordoba]

As much as I like my other amps I always go back to the VTM 60. But yeah, they are pretty scary looking. Same for the original Butcher which has the same head shell. IMO these amps would've really taken off back in the 80s if PV got the cosmetics right.

 

[ClintN667]

I wish Peavey would reissue the VTM. Everytime I see them post old amps I request it. I've owned 2. Really regret selling my last one cause it was in immaculate shape. The headshell is ugly but built like a tank but it weighs a ton.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Is the VTM sort of their version of what Laney tried to do with the original Pro Tubes? The butcher I know is more of a JCM800 with cheaper pricetag in the time. But yes, whoever they hired for cosmetics never left the 1950's.

 

[GuitarGoat]

Is the VTM sort of their version of what Laney tried to do with the original Pro Tubes? The butcher I know is more of a JCM800 with cheaper pricetag in the time. But yes, whoever they hired for cosmetics never left the 1950's.

I don't know anything about the Laneys you mention, but the VTM is really close to a JCM800 with 6L6s, then all the switches on the front that bring in different cathode bypass caps, diode clippers, etc. I believe the Butcher was pretty much the VTM without the switches, but not 100% sure on that and I'm not sure if any other values were changed vs. the "stock" settings on the VTM.

To the OP, very cool set-up. Glad to see some VTM love!

 

[Dave L]

The VTM is made to be sort of a production version of the José mod that Brian Jay from Keel was using at the time, but with the mods on those switches. It was James Brown´s first design for Peavey and Adrian Vandenberg was an early adopter. Never played one myself, I don't think Peavey had much of a presence in Sweden back when these were being made.

 

[Kordoba]

According to Roger Crimm at Peavey (PV forum moderator and has been with PV since the mid-80s) the VTM 120 was essentially a Butcher with dip switches and an effects loop. I'm paraphrasing to the best of my memory.

The following is from Zozobra who is a member of the guitar gear forum. I copy and pasted this from one of his posts where he went over the schematics of the VTM and 2203:

1) 2203 has high and low gain inputs where the low gain input bypasses the first gain stage. Not present on VTM

2) 2203 uses 100k anode load, VTM uses 220k. This makes the VTMs first stage much more high gain and changes the operating point making comparison of the stage bypassing pointless.

3) 2203 2nd stage biased quite cold and is unbypassed, reducing gain. VTM biased slightly cold and bypassed with 680n cap, increasing gain of low mids upwards. The knock effect on frequency shaping of this cannot be overstated enough. This is a big difference tonally given it's cascaded into a another stage and CF.

4) 2203 gain is attenuated by a factor of 2. VTM by about a 3rd. The VTM is way higher gain by this point.

5) 2203 uses 100k anode load, VTM uses 120k, as in 1) this increases the gain of the VTM.

6) 2203 lacks cathode flashover protection diode to stop the cathode being subjected to high voltages/arcing at power up.

 

[Kordoba]

Is the VTM sort of their version of what Laney tried to do with the original Pro Tubes? The butcher I know is more of a JCM800 with cheaper pricetag in the time. But yes, whoever they hired for cosmetics never left the 1950's.

I don't know anything about the Laneys you mention, but the VTM is really close to a JCM800 with 6L6s, then all the switches on the front that bring in different cathode bypass caps, diode clippers, etc. I believe the Butcher was pretty much the VTM without the switches, but not 100% sure on that and I'm not sure if any other values were changed vs. the "stock" settings on the VTM.

To the OP, very cool set-up. Glad to see some VTM love!

Thanks for the comments GuitarGoat!

 

[GuitarGoat]

According to Roger Crimm at Peavey (PV forum moderator and has been with PV since the mid-80s) the VTM 120 was essentially a Butcher with dip switches and an effects loop. I'm paraphrasing to the best of my memory.

The following is from Zozobra who is a member of the guitar gear forum. I copy and pasted this from one of his posts where he went over the schematics of the VTM and 2203:

1) 2203 has high and low gain inputs where the low gain input bypasses the first gain stage. Not present on VTM

2) 2203 uses 100k anode load, VTM uses 220k. This makes the VTMs first stage much more high gain and changes the operating point making comparison of the stage bypassing pointless.

3) 2203 2nd stage biased quite cold and is unbypassed, reducing gain. VTM biased slightly cold and bypassed with 680n cap, increasing gain of low mids upwards. The knock effect on frequency shaping of this cannot be overstated enough. This is a big difference tonally given it's cascaded into a another stage and CF.

4) 2203 gain is attenuated by a factor of 2. VTM by about a 3rd. The VTM is way higher gain by this point.

5) 2203 uses 100k anode load, VTM uses 120k, as in 1) this increases the gain of the VTM.

6) 2203 lacks cathode flashover protection diode to stop the cathode being subjected to high voltages/arcing at power up.

Interesting...looking at the schematics some of that seems off.

1) The VTM definitely has the high and low inputs, just like a 2203

2) VTM schematic has 100k plate resistors

3) I agree with this one (sort of) - instead of the 10k cathode resistor of the 2203, the VTM has a 6.8k resistor, then the Gain 1 switch adds a 4.7k in parallel for approximately 2.8k...biased way bit hotter than the 2203. The Gain 2 switch adds in the 0.68 uF capacitor in series with a 1k resistor (those are in series but are switched in parallel with the 6.8k resistor)

4) Not sure where in the circuit he's looking...probably just me missing something.

5) Again, plate resistors look to be 100k in the VTM

Some of the big differences I see are the added gain stage after the tone stack and loop and then another cathode follower there. There is some huge attenuation after the tone stack and master volume (before the send jack), so the added tube there is to make up for that...haven't dug in to see how much the tone is changed because of that.

 

[Kordoba]

To be honest I don't understand any of it except the part about the VTM having two inputs.

 

[errrrrl]

Hellz yeah DBN!

Cosmetically these things look like they belong in the original Star Trek series but the sound holds up!

I can totally see that... Or I can picture Greg Brady chugging on one with a MIJ guitar and pissing everyone off

 

[Kordoba]

Hellz yeah DBN!

Cosmetically these things look like they belong in the original Star Trek series but the sound holds up!

I can totally see that... Or I can picture Greg Brady chugging on one with a MIJ guitar and pissing everyone off

That reminds me of your Emperor cab Brady Bunch photo shop.

 

[Kordoba]

Speaking of VTMs and Marshall TV cabs, check this out. Not me obviously.

 

[GuitarGoat]

To be honest I don't understand any of it except the part about the VTM having two inputs.

Hell yea

Sorry, went off on a tangent there...been way too into amps, schematics, circuits, and all that lately. Just started going there for a second...

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

To be honest I don't understand any of it except the part about the VTM having two inputs.

Hell yea

Sorry, went off on a tangent there...been way too into amps, schematics, circuits, and all that lately. Just started going there for a second...

I'm still learning how to read schematics but from what I was able to tell, the VTM sort of follows the same path the JCM800 takes in on the high input.. if the PV does this;

10k cathode resistor of the 2203, the VTM has a 6.8k resistor, then the Gain 1 switch adds a 4.7k in parallel for approximately 2.8k...biased way bit hotter than the 2203. The Gain 2 switch adds in the 0.68 uF capacitor in series with a 1k resistor (those are in series but are switched in parallel with the 6.8k resistor)

How does it not turn to mush? Where are they dropping some of that gain into the next stage? My 2204 goes to shit with that much gain. Is there an additional .001 (uf?) cap in series with the treble peaker 470pf/470k that drops to ground? It's cool to see how these schematics visually breakout into the layout. I really should revisit what my old Pro Tubes amp was doing with all those push/pull POT boost features. I modded the PCB way back when to be more of a 2204 but I wish I had left it. Since replaced it with a PTP board but lately during COVID have been thinking of just putting it back and then looking at how to improve on the original design.

 

[GuitarGoat]

To be honest I don't understand any of it except the part about the VTM having two inputs.

Hell yea

Sorry, went off on a tangent there...been way too into amps, schematics, circuits, and all that lately. Just started going there for a second...

I'm still learning how to read schematics but from what I was able to tell, the VTM sort of follows the same path the JCM800 takes in on the high input.. if the PV does this;

10k cathode resistor of the 2203, the VTM has a 6.8k resistor, then the Gain 1 switch adds a 4.7k in parallel for approximately 2.8k...biased way bit hotter than the 2203. The Gain 2 switch adds in the 0.68 uF capacitor in series with a 1k resistor (those are in series but are switched in parallel with the 6.8k resistor)

How does it not turn to mush? Where are they dropping some of that gain into the next stage? My 2204 goes to shit with that much gain. Is there an additional .001 (uf?) cap in series with the treble peaker 470pf/470k that drops to ground? It's cool to see how these schematics visually breakout into the layout. I really should revisit what my old Pro Tubes amp was doing with all those push/pull POT boost features. I modded the PCB way back when to be more of a 2204 but I wish I had left it. Since replaced it with a PTP board but lately during COVID have been thinking of just putting it back and then looking at how to improve on the original design.

You're correct, there is the additional 0.001 uF cap to ground right before the treble peaker...that should dump some signal (I'd think mostly highs but would have to do the math...) after the first stage and then a 470 pF in the same manner after the treble peaker between the second and third gain stages. There's really nothing dumping gain (other than those caps mentioned above) more than a 2203 before the tonestack unless I'm missing something. I think I run mine a lot of times with Gain 2 flipped on, but Gain 1 ends up being a bit much.

While I’m looking at the schematic, if anyone’s interested in what the switches do, Gain 1 and 2 are described above, then the rest are as follows:
Comp: Switches in clipping diodes
Low 1: Brings a 1 uF cap in parallel with the first stage cathode resistor/cap combo
Low 2: Brings a 10 uF cap in parallel with the first stage cathode resistor/cap combo
Mid: Brings a 0.001 uF cap in parallel with the 470 pF cap connected to the high pot in the tone stack
High 1: Brings a 0.1 uF cap in parallel with the presence cap (0.1 uF)
High 2: Brings another 0.1 uF cap in parallel with the presence cap

 

[bubbastain]

I wish Peavey would reissue the VTM. Everytime I see them post old amps I request it. I've owned 2. Really regret selling my last one cause it was in immaculate shape. The headshell is ugly but built like a tank but it weighs a ton.

Yup, me too.

 

[ultimatemetalguitartones]

It sounds monstrous!

 

[Kordoba]

It sounds monstrous!

Thank you for the comment!