Pissing Contest, Bogner Helios Straight 412 vs Friedman 412

[WizardSouth-JP]

I am looking to get a 412 with the V30/GB25 speaker combo. I have 3 Bogner cabs and I like the way they sound but have heard good things about the Friedman cabs. I know this is subjective but for those that run multiple speakers in a 412 - can you give any insight here. I doubt you can argue one is built better than the other so really it would come down to the poly fill being the main difference I suppose. Maybe someone that's had Bogner cabs then tried a Friedman cab can interject why they switched or why they kept their Bogners.

The new Helios Straight cab is set up like the Friedman with V30's on the bottom and GB25's on top.

 

[Moshaholic]

I am looking to get a 412 with the V30/GB25 speaker combo. I have 3 Bogner cabs and I like the way they sound but have heard good things about the Friedman cabs. I know this is subjective but for those that run multiple speakers in a 412 - can you give any insight here. I doubt you can argue one is built better than the other so really it would come down to the poly fill being the main difference I suppose. Maybe someone that's had Bogner cabs then tried a Friedman cab can interject why they switched or why they kept their Bogners.

The new Helios Straight cab is set up like the Friedman with V30's on the bottom and GB25's on top.

I think the bogner cabs are 30" in daimeter and the Friedmans are 29" which a little smaller like the classic Marshall size.

 

[WizardSouth-JP]

I ordered a 412ST Helios to match my other Bogners. Will have the V30/GB speaker combo - whenever the port can get Celestions to Bogner I'll be happy.

 

[flash6969]

I asked the very same question a few weeks back. Here's the conversation with some comments from Dave Friedman;

http://groomednoodlers.com/forum/viewto ... =20&t=1061

 

[Junk Yard Dog]

Resurrecting. Both cabs have same speaker mix. What are the differences in tone and feel?

 

[WizardSouth-JP]

After having both of these I wondered why Bogner adds that poly fill on the back of their cabinets. To my ears, the Friedman was more woody and sounded closer to Marshall cabs and seemed to have more bounce if that makes sense. I think the poly was supposed to tighten up the cabs and tame the low end produced by more modern amps. Of course YMMV, I thought you had both of these Mark...

 

[Junk Yard Dog]

After having both of these I wondered why Bogner adds that poly fill on the back of their cabinets. To my ears, the Friedman was more woody and sounded closer to Marshall cabs and seemed to have more bounce if that makes sense. I think the poly was supposed to tighten up the cabs and tame the low end produced by more modern amps. Of course YMMV, I thought you had both of these Mark...

Thanks, brother! ...I had a used Friedman 4x12 that came with H30's on top/V30s on bottom. It did not rock. I played the Friedman 4x12 last week and it was way better than the used one I had; great cut and articulation and good thump.

I just sold my OS Bogner 2x12; killer 2x12. The used Bogner 4x12 I got from GC a month ago had only 3 working speakers, so I sent it back. That's the 2nd 4x12 from GC that came in not to my expectations.

I've only played my friend's Bogner 4x12 ST and that punch has haunted me. Seemed to have great gut-punch from what I recall.

I'm sure I'd be happy with either. Hell, I've even looked at the Diezel and Mesa Traditional 4x12s!

 

[WizardSouth-JP]

If we were close you could come try my Orange 412's - I'll put them up against any 412. Of course Matt in San Antonio swears by this Fryette/Fane loaded cabs...would be a good shootout.

 

[LPMojoGL]

After having both of these I wondered why Bogner adds that poly fill on the back of their cabinets. To my ears, the Friedman was more woody and sounded closer to Marshall cabs and seemed to have more bounce if that makes sense. I think the poly was supposed to tighten up the cabs and tame the low end produced by more modern amps. Of course YMMV, I thought you had both of these Mark...

Thanks, brother! ...I had a used Friedman 4x12 that came with H30's on top/V30s on bottom. It did not rock. I played the Friedman 4x12 last week and it was way better than the used one I had; great cut and articulation and good thump.

I just sold my OS Bogner 2x12; killer 2x12. The used Bogner 4x12 I got from GC a month ago had only 3 working speakers, so I sent it back. That's the 2nd 4x12 from GC that came in not to my expectations.

I've only played my friend's Bogner 4x12 ST and that punch has haunted me. Seemed to have great gut-punch from what I recall.

I'm sure I'd be happy with either. Hell, I've even looked at the Diezel and Mesa Traditional 4x12s!

Are you still using the Friedman 2x12? Brandon’s Bogner 4x12 was sweet. Get one of those!

 

[Junk Yard Dog]

After having both of these I wondered why Bogner adds that poly fill on the back of their cabinets. To my ears, the Friedman was more woody and sounded closer to Marshall cabs and seemed to have more bounce if that makes sense. I think the poly was supposed to tighten up the cabs and tame the low end produced by more modern amps. Of course YMMV, I thought you had both of these Mark...

Thanks, brother! ...I had a used Friedman 4x12 that came with H30's on top/V30s on bottom. It did not rock. I played the Friedman 4x12 last week and it was way better than the used one I had; great cut and articulation and good thump.

I just sold my OS Bogner 2x12; killer 2x12. The used Bogner 4x12 I got from GC a month ago had only 3 working speakers, so I sent it back. That's the 2nd 4x12 from GC that came in not to my expectations.

I've only played my friend's Bogner 4x12 ST and that punch has haunted me. Seemed to have great gut-punch from what I recall.

I'm sure I'd be happy with either. Hell, I've even looked at the Diezel and Mesa Traditional 4x12s!

Are you still using the Friedman 2x12? Brandon’s Bogner 4x12 was sweet. Get one of those!

Yup. LOVE the Friedman 2x12. We're about to start playing bigger stages more often, so thinking the 4x12 for those,...even though the Friedman 2x12 has been plenty for gigs like the HOB.

I liked Brandon's Uberkab a lot, it's killer, but I prefer RL's quite a bit more. I've played the Diezel FL's and they were not my favorite.

 

[NorCal_Val]

Can't compare with a Bogner;
but the Friedman 4x12 I just picked up, I can compare with my Boogie Recto Cabs(360w and 280w)
The Boogies are GREAT for modern metal-type tones(especially with 7 and 8 strings), but to my ears
they are too "focused"/tight sounding for rock/hard rock/80s metal type of tones.(running my Riveras
Ampeg/Lee Jackson, and Marshall SL-X100 for comparisons)
Using the Friedman 4x12(V30s and Greenbacks), those amps just open up. I think the Friedman
allows the upper mids to "bark" more with those amps. And the low end just isn't as tight as it is
through the Boogies.
The Friedman is the first new cab I've bought in over 20 years, and I can't recommend it highly enough.

 

[skullfxr]

I would love to hear a blind test. Same head through two cabs with same speaker configuration.

I know I said this in another thread, but I don't own any 'premium' cabs as such, I own orange, Mesa, Avatar and MOJO, etc and I am happy, but I wonder what difference a blind test would show. All my cabs are British Celestion or Weber loaded,so it's not that I am using shit speakers.

I have experimented with polyfil before. In several cabs and the results are surprisingly different. I encourage you all to experiment,as it's cheap and can have good results and is easy to do.

 

[Junk Yard Dog]

Thx for the comments. Yeah, Justin, I need to consider Orange. There’s a few for sale here in DFW.

 

[WizardSouth-JP]

I have one with V30/Creamback 65’s - sounds fantastic

 

[Junk Yard Dog]

I have one with V30/Creamback 65’s - sounds fantastic

X pattern or T/B? Also, and I know you’ve told me before, what do you like more about the Orange 4x12 over the others?

 

[WizardSouth-JP]

X pattern, they hold together and have that woody think to them, just solid all around

 

[scottosan]

After having both of these I wondered why Bogner adds that poly fill on the back of their cabinets. To my ears, the Friedman was more woody and sounded closer to Marshall cabs and seemed to have more bounce if that makes sense. I think the poly was supposed to tighten up the cabs and tame the low end produced by more modern amps. Of course YMMV, I thought you had both of these Mark...

Thanks, brother! ...I had a used Friedman 4x12 that came with H30's on top/V30s on bottom. It did not rock. I played the Friedman 4x12 last week and it was way better than the used one I had; great cut and articulation and good thump.

I just sold my OS Bogner 2x12; killer 2x12. The used Bogner 4x12 I got from GC a month ago had only 3 working speakers, so I sent it back. That's the 2nd 4x12 from GC that came in not to my expectations.

I've only played my friend's Bogner 4x12 ST and that punch has haunted me. Seemed to have great gut-punch from what I recall.

I'm sure I'd be happy with either. Hell, I've even looked at the Diezel and Mesa Traditional 4x12s!

Are you still using the Friedman 2x12? Brandon’s Bogner 4x12 was sweet. Get one of those!

I think Brandons was front loaded, which is a much more aggressive feel.

 

[itsme]

I much prefer the Bogner cabs. They're just juicier. And the fact that the Friedmans don't come with casters is kinda silly. Can't move a 4x12 without 'em. I also prefer my BE100 with four Vintage 30's. It was hard to dial in with the greenback/Vin 30 mix. Never sounded right, but all Vin30's sound great. Maybe that's why Steve Stevens stuck with all Vin 30's for a while and Cantrell ran one all Vin30 and one all Greenback cabs together

 

[RedB4Black]

I read the OP and thought WTF, then realized the thread was 4 1/2 years old. Lol

The problem with Bogner cabs is the life-sucking poly-fill they use to coat the inside back panel. Remove that and I’d doubt you’d be able to hear a significant difference from a Friedman cab with the same speakers

 

[Junk Yard Dog]

I read the OP and thought WTF, then realized the thread was 4 1/2 years old. Lol

The problem with Bogner cabs is the life-sucking poly-fill they use to coat the inside back panel. Remove that and I’d doubt you’d be able to hear a significant difference from a Friedman cab with the same speakers

Thanks, man! This is the interesting thing: some say exactly what you did and others say the Bogner has 'more' of everything due to the polyfil. There seems to be no consensus on this...

I'm tempted to just grab a new Helios with return policy. I'm quite aware of what the Friedman does and I really dig it, but would be interested in maybe putting CB H or M's on top.