Pre-amp tubes for Einstein

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nivek

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Playing around with some different pre-amp tube combination. I would be interested to see what Pre-amp tubes in which position have worked well for other Einstein users. I have 2 NOS Mullards (gold pins) would these work well if so what positions? Thanks Kevin.
 
Hi Kevin,

I´m not a specialist when it comes to NOS tubes.

Are You not satisfied with the factory tubes ?
 
Thank you very much for the reply Peter. I actually bought the amp used from Guitar Center so it did not have the stock tubes in it. I have just seen a post on here a while back with someone that used a couple of NOS Mullard pre-amp tubes and various other combinations and liked them. I think you use ruby preamp tubes stock but which ones. I have gone through five different amp in the last couple of years, played the Einstein for 10 minutes at GC while on a business trip. Came home sold a new Mark V and bought the Einstein I currently have and love it!!!
 
Nivek,
I was one of the people who, after owning my Einstein combo for about 2 years, decided only then to play with differently voiced preamp tubes.
I leave whatever Peter has put into my amps alone and enjoy them for awhile before re-voicing the amp a bit.

After trying out RFT's, Brimars, Mullards, Telefunkens, Amperex, Phillips, Radiotechniques and several other European NOS tubes of various power ratings...12AX7, 12AT7, 12AU7, I have come to enjoy my Einstein currently as follows: I use a NOS Telefunken 12AT7 in V-1, and NOS Mullard 12AU7's in both V-2 and V-3. At the suggestion of Peter and Olaf years ago, I replaced the phase inverter 12AX7 with a 12AT7.

I do change around the preamp tubes in V one through 3 if I experience a microphonic disturbance and try other combinations, but only with the various NOS tubes I have mentioned above. While they are all similar, there are nuances to each brand and I like to change up the voicing when a tube goes bad to make it intersting.

The reason I am using lower powered preamp tubes is that my preference in the saturation I desire must have some clarity to the note. With 12AX7's, anything above 2 o'clock on my channel 2 gain control and the saturations clouds up and the clarity dissapears in my ears.

By going to the lower powered pramp tubes, I am able to turn the gain up further to get the "thrust" behind the note and still retain clarity. It makes the full throw of the gain control more usable for my needs.

I hope this helps you out. :thumbsup:
Stephen
 
What would be the effect of changing the phase inverter to 12AT7, Stephen? Papa? :)

Given the amounts of gain available on tap in Einy, replacing V1 and V3 with 12AT7 or 12AU7 should still leave you with more than enough gain, but I am still wondering whether it will be "heavy metal" enough. I am willing to experiment and will get some NOS RFT's 12At/au's here anyway, just to have the option. With 12AX7 I never went past 12:00, 1 o'clock at max on the gain knob.
But as common rule of thumb (excuse my ignorance) 12AU7 have much less amplification, somewhere in the realms of 5 times less than 12AX7, so isn't this way too low?

Niki
 
You will loose some harmonic mids with the 12AT7
in the phase inverter position.

Please check it out, it´s not a big loss of money.
 
Many thanks, Peter.

I already ordered NOS RFT 12AT7 (in my old, but MIDI programmable :D, Dynacord combo those RFT's are simply singing, but are ECC83, i.e. 12AX7 ... ) and will see how it is going to work. I.e. what I will gain from it :) Although that loss in harmonic mids does put some worries.
I will check how 12AU7 will work in V1 and V3 positions, as well as Stephen suggested and will report back on my findings.
Thanks,
Niki
 
What I am finding is that by using lower powered preamp tubes, yes, the overall volume is a bit lower, but still LOUD.
Will it be loud enough for others who try this procedure? That is an individual decision to be made by each player, and not me personally.
As for the 12AT7 in the phase inverter...my tired old ears hear plenty of mids as I have my "middle" dials set to around 10-10:30 o'clock on both channels of my Einstein anyway.
It could be due to the larger cab my combo has, or the revoiced chassis placed into the combo shell, but my ears are mid-sensitive, so I have never once noticed a lack of mids.
If I want more mids, which happens sometimes during the night at work, I set my "middle" dials no higher then 12 o'clock and I hear more mids then I can use most of the time. I am easily able to get harmonic feedback in a controlled way with my current set-up, but due to the preamp tubes being a bit less powerful, I can crank up the dials further, and work the tubes harder.

Nikki,
If you do not get the saturation you desire from placing a 12AU7 in V-1 and V-3, try a 12AT7 in V-1, and the 12AU7's in V-2 and V-3, (or switch the 12AT7 into the other V slots, V-2, or V-3 to experiment. You will notice a change in how the saturation is separated out between the 2 channels that way, and it will allow you to decide whether one position for the 12AT7 is better for you then another.

Remember that we all hear differently, and due to having played for 54 years, I hear less then most everyone else anyway. I like my tones to be balanced, similar to when playing in a studio environment. It is just the way I prefer my tones to come out. My guitar also allows me this luxury, as it is carbon fiber, and extremely balanced from note-to-note across the entire fretboard. Most wood guitars have become mid-heavy to me.

Obviously, all the rest of you, that can actually hear everything, may have a different experience. :thumbsup: :yes:
 
Ookay.
Yesterday, I've decided (reads found the time :) ) to experiment with the phase inverted. After breaking the glass of an NOS RFT 12AT7 (ouch, but this are really fragile, I have few old Siemens, Telefunken stuff lying around which are built excellently) I managed to dig through the inventory (found a quartet of old Siemens EL34 :) should check how much life is left to them :) ) and found a Chinese 12AT7.
...and it made a great difference in the amps sound. To me it made it tighter sounding, with making the high end a bit more silky, low frequencies more tight. Needless to say I ordered three different brands of 12AT7 to continue with the experiments, including for V1 & V3.
While dismantled I also experimented with different 12AX7 brands for the phase inverter. Best sounding, apart from the 12AT7, to my ear was an Electro Harmonix 12AX7, excellent tight crunch. Much better than the Chinese HG. That is of course IMO and YMMV :)

I will update that post when I get the other 12AT7 treasures, I have on order.

Niki
 
Short update.
I got NOS JAN12AT7 and RFT 12AT7. There was probably something wrong with the JAN one cause whet I put it the amp suffered extreme loss of power and noise floor was quite high. So I removed it and will probably be sending it back (for 25EUR it better be working or what). So I put the RFT ones. While it was open I decided to check that brand new set of TAD B-STR premium selected EL34 quartet I had and changed the EL34 BHT that were there...... AND THAT WAS IT GUYS. These power tubes together with the NOST RFT 12AT7 as phase inverter made a HUGE difference in the sound. Much more defined, better saturation and excellent sounding combination for me. Amazingly sounding combination that absolutely floored me. Don't know whether the RFT or the EL34 B-STR made the difference, but Einy is now sounding better than before (which is hard to believe but is true to my ears)!
Thanks Stephen and Papa for pointing me at AT7 !
I will be changing V1 and/or V3 these weekend to check how it is going to work.
Niki
 
I play einstein 100w into bogner 4x12 v'30.
I got my einy modded by mtechaudio so i can switch into all four modes via midi switcher.
I found ch2 too much gain so i decided to swap v2.I tried first 12au7 and i find it good for the tone (little darker)but a little too much attack.The good compromise is for me 12at7 in v2:smooth attack,sparkling notes,and just little less gain than before.
Now i run with 12at7 in v1 and v2 and i'm really satisfied.
I tried 12au7 in v6 and i found it a good way to reduce overall volume.Not tried this way a long time because i don't need to play einy at low volume.
:D
 
Not sure if this is any contribution since you guys have experimented alot with different tubes.
I tried a 12AT7 in V1 thinking that it will reduce feedback on channel 2 when i crank it. It did, and there s ALOT of gain on tap on channel 2 on the Einy, BUT i found it crippled channel one Mode 2. I absolutely adore the amp s sound as it came just the feedback got to me. After a few days with the 12AT7 in V1 i switched back to the original 12AX7 that was in there. BTW i have the 100W head, it came with 6550s which i really like. On channel 2 the gain is set at 1 o cklock, channel 1 texas mode i have the gain at 3 o clock. Peter i tried lowering the PUPs on my Ibanez j custom, the same with my RG750, tried 2 other guitars on it as well, unfortunately still getting exesive feedback when i have master and the volume anywhere passed 10 o clock. I even tried standing as far away from the amp as possible. I use an Evedence Lyric High Gain cable thats around 4 meters long plugged streight into the amp. Is there anything i m missing?
I only get the feedback when i m on channel 2. Any input would be grestly appreciated.
 
L.o.LI spent the first year with my 100WttEiny trying mainly new ax7"s.Like C-4 I'm old.I finally came up with an easy solution for my taste.I don't play out at loud volumes anymore.I pulled 2 of the EL-34"s.After using new Mullard and Ruby 34's,I've come to love new Tung-sol"s.Acy is another German tone conisuer who suggested I try the Tung-Sol 12ax7.I don't know if this will help,but it rocks my boat,L.o.L and it's very easy to remeber.Oh and I finally found my dream speaker combination.I have an over sized 2x12 cab with 1 ceramic hempcone & 1 old vintage celestion.Good luck from Alaska. :rock:
 
darkhorse":3cq5fh57 said:
Not sure if this is any contribution since you guys have experimented alot with different tubes.
I tried a 12AT7 in V1 thinking that it will reduce feedback on channel 2 when i crank it. It did, and there s ALOT of gain on tap on channel 2 on the Einy, BUT i found it crippled channel one Mode 2. I absolutely adore the amp s sound as it came just the feedback got to me. After a few days with the 12AT7 in V1 i switched back to the original 12AX7 that was in there. BTW i have the 100W head, it came with 6550s which i really like. On channel 2 the gain is set at 1 o cklock, channel 1 texas mode i have the gain at 3 o clock. Peter i tried lowering the PUPs on my Ibanez j custom, the same with my RG750, tried 2 other guitars on it as well, unfortunately still getting exesive feedback when i have master and the volume anywhere passed 10 o clock. I even tried standing as far away from the amp as possible. I use an Evedence Lyric High Gain cable thats around 4 meters long plugged streight into the amp. Is there anything i m missing?
I only get the feedback when i m on channel 2. Any input would be grestly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Dimitri have you tried replacing your V2 with a 12AT7 or any other preamp tube?

And a question not relevant to this issue,isn't your amp getting too hot with 4 6550s?
 
Serviani":31wsitdy said:
darkhorse":31wsitdy said:
Not sure if this is any contribution since you guys have experimented alot with different tubes.
I tried a 12AT7 in V1 thinking that it will reduce feedback on channel 2 when i crank it. It did, and there s ALOT of gain on tap on channel 2 on the Einy, BUT i found it crippled channel one Mode 2. I absolutely adore the amp s sound as it came just the feedback got to me. After a few days with the 12AT7 in V1 i switched back to the original 12AX7 that was in there. BTW i have the 100W head, it came with 6550s which i really like. On channel 2 the gain is set at 1 o cklock, channel 1 texas mode i have the gain at 3 o clock. Peter i tried lowering the PUPs on my Ibanez j custom, the same with my RG750, tried 2 other guitars on it as well, unfortunately still getting exesive feedback when i have master and the volume anywhere passed 10 o clock. I even tried standing as far away from the amp as possible. I use an Evedence Lyric High Gain cable thats around 4 meters long plugged streight into the amp. Is there anything i m missing?
I only get the feedback when i m on channel 2. Any input would be grestly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Dimitri have you tried replacing your V2 with a 12AT7 or any other preamp tube?

And a question not relevant to this issue,isn't your amp getting too hot with 4 6550s?
Click to expand...

no, just V1. you think i should try another? is anyone else getting feedback issues? I dont think it s getting too hot, that s how it came new.
 
darkhorse":h9qyknps said:
no, just V1. you think i should try another?
Click to expand...

Well,we wont know unless you try it, right?
Try any preamp tube in there, just to see if that is causing this feedback.
 
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