Question about running 2 amps stereo

[base341]

So I've been running 2 half stacks together just for fun recently and have noticed a big tone difference in the amps when they're both running together.
I'm using a radial big shot aby to do this. It sounds like I've got a wah pedal cracked open when I'm playing leads with the set up.
Is this normal? assumed there would be some volume drop but I'm surprised at the tone change.
Would this still probably happen with a better pedal like a lehle?
Thanks for any help

 

[Spaceboy]

the radial is a fine pedal... could be phase problems?

 

[D-Rock]

I have a Radial Twin City ABY and it has noise and phase correction switches. Works great. Maybe compare the two online feature wise and see if your pedal is missing an option.

 

[steve_k]

Definitely a phase issue. You need an AB/Y pedal with a phase invert. BTW, you are not running a stereo setup, but two amps in mono. Stereo implies a single preamped signal split to two power amps.

 

[mrkmas]

What are the 2 amps you are using?

I have never ran multiple amps together before, but from I have seen and heard on here, a common problem is phase issues with some amps when they are run together. If i remember correctly from reading on here, the phase issues will cause the low end of the amps to disappear and the mids and high end to sound strange, which sounds close to what you were saying about the wah. Generally speaking, out of phase issues cause certain frequencies to cancel out and certain ones as a result to become more pronounced.

http://www.tonebone.com/re-bigshot-aby-detail.htm

The pedal you have has ground lift (which I never recommend using at all, which can electrocute you if ingaged).
It also has a phase switch (this is the one with 180' under it) and an isolation transformer ( marked "iso"). Just for fun I would turn on the "180'" switch real quick to see if the problem is fixed and it may be just as simple as that. Doing this wont damage anything, it either will fix the problem or wont fix the problem so there is no risk.

 

[racerevlon]

+1 on the phasing issue. Easy enough to check with the 9V test.

 

[GuitarGoat]

+1 on the phasing issue. Easy enough to check with the 9V test.

The speakers could be fine but the amps might be out of phase on certain channels. If you add another gain stage in an amp the phase will be flipped. 9V test might not check for this...if you don't know what you're listening for a phase switch on your AB box will help you figure out what's right.

 

[Tone Monster]

Reverse the polarity of one of the speaker cables on only one end. Cheap and easy.

 

[Heritage Softail]

Or you could slave one into the other. Try it both ways and see what you like best. I like to slave my 5153 into the DSL. The different power section and speakers give a cool blended amp sound.

No phase issues, effects in one loop. Nice and wide.

 

[Filter500]

It's the 180 switch you need to flip. Think of it as your thick or hollow option.

 

[the crush 36]

Or you could slave one into the other. Try it both ways and see what you like best. I like to slave my 5153 into the DSL. The different power section and speakers give a cool blended amp sound.

No phase issues, effects in one loop. Nice and wide.

" could you explaine how you are hooking up your 5153 and dsl thanks

 

[steve_k]

You can set each amp on the channels you want and establish proper phasing like someone above said by reversing the polarity of one of the speaker cables to one cab of either head. However, when you change channels on one amp (if your amps are channel changers), you will go out of phase again. This is due to the even/odd triodes of additional (or fewer) gain stages. If you just set it and go, you are fine.

 

[Heritage Softail]

Or you could slave one into the other. Try it both ways and see what you like best. I like to slave my 5153 into the DSL. The different power section and speakers give a cool blended amp sound.

No phase issues, effects in one loop. Nice and wide.

" could you explaine how you are hooking up your 5153 and dsl thanks

The 5153 has a preamp out. Plug a guitar cable from that into the effects return of the DSL.

I experimented with which cabs to see which was best. The DLS has an Eventide time factor in the loop. I have an OCD up front.

It is just simple and wide. The good tone beats any effects. I like a big gnarly Alice in Chains or Metallica tone. I don't play complicated shred, just gut punch metal. Toss in some leads that aren't too off key and hopefully land on a right note near the end

I like the DSL though. Cheap and a great amp on its own.

 

[base341]

Definitely a phase issue. You need an AB/Y pedal with a phase invert. BTW, you are not running a stereo setup, but two amps in mono. Stereo implies a single preamped signal split to two power amps.

My bad.. I get it.

 

[base341]

What are the 2 amps you are using?

I have never ran multiple amps together before, but from I have seen and heard on here, a common problem is phase issues with some amps when they are run together. If i remember correctly from reading on here, the phase issues will cause the low end of the amps to disappear and the mids and high end to sound strange, which sounds close to what you were saying about the wah. Generally speaking, out of phase issues cause certain frequencies to cancel out and certain ones as a result to become more pronounced.

http://www.tonebone.com/re-bigshot-aby-detail.htm

The pedal you have has ground lift (which I never recommend using at all, which can electrocute you if ingaged).
It also has a phase switch (this is the one with 180' under it) and an isolation transformer ( marked "iso"). Just for fun I would turn on the "180'" switch real quick to see if the problem is fixed and it may be just as simple as that. Doing this wont damage anything, it either will fix the problem or wont fix the problem so there is no risk.

Thanks, that pretty much fixed it
There's still a little tone difference but it's probably the frequencies canceling out like was mentioned here.

I'm mixing a Diezel Hagan with v-30 cab and an Ultra lead with p50e's..
Sounds huge

Would there be a big difference using a Lehle switcher?

 

[JB6464]

Or you could slave one into the other. Try it both ways and see what you like best. I like to slave my 5153 into the DSL. The different power section and speakers give a cool blended amp sound.

No phase issues, effects in one loop. Nice and wide.

" could you explaine how you are hooking up your 5153 and dsl thanks

The 5153 has a preamp out. Plug a guitar cable from that into the effects return of the DSL.

I experimented with which cabs to see which was best. The DLS has an Eventide time factor in the loop. I have an OCD up front.

It is just simple and wide. The good tone beats any effects. I like a big gnarly Alice in Chains or Metallica tone. I don't play complicated shred, just gut punch metal. Toss in some leads that aren't too off key and hopefully land on a right note near the end

I like the DSL though. Cheap and a great amp on its own.

I'm a little loss here , help me out.
If your running a guitar cable from the 5153 preamp out into the effects return of the DSL , then where is the Eventide Time Factor placed in the DSL loop ?
Are you going from the 5153 into the Time Factor (input jack) then it's effect output jack to the return jack of the DSL Loop ?

 

[steve_k]

Or you could slave one into the other. Try it both ways and see what you like best. I like to slave my 5153 into the DSL. The different power section and speakers give a cool blended amp sound.

No phase issues, effects in one loop. Nice and wide.

" could you explaine how you are hooking up your 5153 and dsl thanks

The 5153 has a preamp out. Plug a guitar cable from that into the effects return of the DSL.

I experimented with which cabs to see which was best. The DLS has an Eventide time factor in the loop. I have an OCD up front.

It is just simple and wide. The good tone beats any effects. I like a big gnarly Alice in Chains or Metallica tone. I don't play complicated shred, just gut punch metal. Toss in some leads that aren't too off key and hopefully land on a right note near the end

I like the DSL though. Cheap and a great amp on its own.

I'm a little loss here , help me out.
If your running a guitar cable from the 5153 preamp out into the effects return of the DSL , then where is the Eventide Time Factor placed in the DSL loop ?
Are you going from the 5153 into the Time Factor (input jack) then it's effect output jack to the return jack of the DSL Loop ?

Same here....

 

[Heritage Softail]

Or you could slave one into the other. Try it both ways and see what you like best. I like to slave my 5153 into the DSL. The different power section and speakers give a cool blended amp sound.

No phase issues, effects in one loop. Nice and wide.

" could you explaine how you are hooking up your 5153 and dsl thanks

The 5153 has a preamp out. Plug a guitar cable from that into the effects return of the DSL.

I experimented with which cabs to see which was best. The DLS has an Eventide time factor in the loop. I have an OCD up front.

It is just simple and wide. The good tone beats any effects. I like a big gnarly Alice in Chains or Metallica tone. I don't play complicated shred, just gut punch metal. Toss in some leads that aren't too off key and hopefully land on a right note near the end

I like the DSL though. Cheap and a great amp on its own.

I'm a little loss here , help me out.
If your running a guitar cable from the 5153 preamp out into the effects return of the DSL , then where is the Eventide Time Factor placed in the DSL loop ?
Are you going from the 5153 into the Time Factor (input jack) then it's effect output jack to the return jack of the DSL Loop ?

I tried it straight in the return. Then in the delay then in the return, then added a phaser but took it out.

But what is between your master amp preamp out, ind into the slave amp return in you effects loop.

There are probably more complex ways to do it with more control. I am going to get a loop level control to be able to mix the level of the second amp down some.

I'm sure someone on RT knows how to do that. Steve showed me the simple wet/dry rig.

 

[JB6464]

I'm going to give that a try but with my amp setup and see if i like that.
I'm going to go from my Soldano preamp line out to the CC delay input , then out to the effects return jack of a Carvin X100B loop.
I can also adjust the preamp line out volume since the Soldano has a volume knob for that preamp out signal on the back of the amp.
Sounds interesting.

 

[Heritage Softail]

I'm going to give that a try but with my amp setup and see if i like that.
I'm going to go from my Soldano preamp line out to the CC delay input , then out to the effects return jack of a Carvin X100B loop.
I can also adjust the preamp line out volume since the Soldano has a volume knob for that preamp out signal on the back of the amp.
Sounds interesting.

I was thinking a volume pedal could work too.

Seems like it should..?