Real Cab vs. Red Wire or other DI based cab sims

[Kapo_Polenton]

Ok, so like many I am convinced that most computer based preamps (including Axe!!) just don't cut it. The sound is always too round or too compressed and bass heavy for me.. in most cases I can spot it. So while researching the best way to get great guitar tones, I obviously came across the theory that mic'ing your cab up with diff mics and then combining them to fill out the lower-mid-and high frequencies for one track was a great way to make a guitar sound huge. With my sm57's, I just feel I am missing something. At first i thought maybe i will throw up 3 sm57's on the cab and then use something like a vst plugin that emulates more expensive mics. I was messing with a program a few years ago that did this.. then I came upon this redwirez site and the cab sims were getting great reviews. I stumbled across this post: http://www.hugeracksinc.com/forum/viewt ... =1&t=67023

Now without going down the list, see if you can spot the one sound file that was done with a real mic! I couldn't.. so my point is.. if I use a real sm57 on my speaker but then use the line out from my hotplate into something like this red wire program, I might be able to accomplish what i wanted (maybe better) than if i go spend 1k on diff mics. Also, in having a look through youtube, I also notice a lot of producers and bigger studios using these dirty little secrets to get great tones. Yes it may take away from the authenticity of things but more and more the polished sounds we hear I am sure are mixed in with a bit of replacement technology (drums) and reamping or cab sims. As long as the amp itself is creating the DI or the preamp distortion, these cab sims might really be of great use to the home recording enthusiast. Any of you guys using this in conjunction with real mics?

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I guess we'll find out soon enough.. i am probably going to try the free greenback cab they have on their site and A/B it agains tthe greenback in mine with my sm57. Should be interesting..

 

[Rogue]

Your results are going to depend largely on how you use it....silent or not silent.

Silent: You'd have to use a load of some sort. Any load other than a real speaker in a cabinet affects the tone, negatively, IMO. Even using a DI box between your amp and load, you will get the influence on the load in the signal. Attenuators at full attenuation (full load) crush the tone. It's fine for practicing or messing around, but you'll likely find it stuffy and dirty sounding for actual recording. I ultimately built a sort of ISO box that houses a speaker (no mic) and use it as a load (for volume control) and that is still not as good as real cabinet.

Not Silent: If you can run your amp at volume as you normally would, you are in great shape. You can use the line out of your attenuator, but you can pick up DI boxes fairly cheap. This will give you the best signal to your DAW for IR use. I assume you able to run your amp at volume since you plan to mix real mic and IRs.



Ultimately, a well miced cab is hard to beat (key word well). It does have a little extra something that IRs just don't have. However, IRs offer a wide range of tone tweaks. I have not tried to mix real mic and IR. I would guess it'd be perfectly fine to do that but you'd have to deal with phase issues just like using two real mics. If you're just using IRs with no real mics, the major brands are already phase aligned and you don't have to mess with it.

Red Wires and Ownhammers are both great IR sets. I tend to prefer the Ownhammers. Another option is the Two Notes Torpedo PI (plug in). It sounds pretty good and has the flexibility of moving your mic around the speaker and in the room. Pretty cool, but it's quite expensive.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Yep, I'm talkin gabout runnin my amp at volume (so hotplate wide open) and then just using the line out to go into one of the IR libraries. The only phase issues i would have to worry about is the real signal with the IR. The IR signal would be in phase with itself so i could mix 1 real with 2 IR's once i carefully sorted out balnce issues. The real mic would be the meat and potatoes of the recording and the IR would be the side dishes to fill out the meal. Could be interesting and after reading about all these studio tricks like reamping digital through a real amp and out through it's speaker, really makes me wonder how much "cheating" is really going on these days! My only reservation now is that a lot of these clips seem to be heavier genre music. Those are easier to get tones out of than say a classic Hendrix,Paige, or Blackmore vibe going through a plexi.

 

[petethorn]

A bit of a PITA to align phase between the real mic and the IR's, is the only issue. I can never seem to quite get it right to my satisfaction. I prefer to just use 2 mics (with the diaphragms aligned so they are in phase) . Or to just use IR's.

I'm really liking the Heil PR20, blended with a 57. It's smoother, and sounds good on it's own as well. Blended, it sounds really good. I use the 57 dead center (for maximum 57-ness, i.e. that penetrating high mid to treble cut) and the Heil right beside it, so it's getting where the dustcap meets the cone.

I use Red Wirez IR's and quite like them.I use them when I want to record or practice totally silently, and I use them loaded into my axe FX user slots also.

btw I'm not a big fan of the Hotplate line out- it's kinda dark sounding. I use the Suhr ISO line out box, which in a direct a/b I found to have a much fuller, richer signal. You could still use your hotplate for attenuation/load but use a different line out before the hotplate, if you want.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

btw I'm not a big fan of the Hotplate line out- it's kinda dark sounding. I use the Suhr ISO line out box, which in a direct a/b I found to have a much fuller, richer signal. You could still use your hotplate for attenuation/load but use a different line out before the hotplate, if you want.

Funny you should mention that as i always find the hotplate cuts some of my high end and i like it with the bright switch engaged. I'm going to assume that the bright switch dies very little to the line out sound though.. if i am talking another source for DI or line out, am i not just better off sinking that money i want for another line out into anothe mic? I have a slave out on my Lynchbox but not entirely sure that is the same thing. Are there any good cheaper sit between amp and speaker line outs? I'm thinking the only thing that might do the trick is one of those palmer units but they are the cost of a mic or atleast half the cost of an amp that I could use to give me diff tone. The Heil I also noticed is very similar to a 58, would i really want to get another mic that is similar? Tonally I'm lookin for some contrast so i can bring out the fullness of the recording a bit more.