Rebel 20 too bright??…

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DirtySteve

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Hello all,.. This is my first post here, but I have been around off and on for a while, looking for information on my Rebel when I bought it, and between here, and TGP, I‘ve learned a lot about, not just my amp, but tube amps in general. Thank you…

To start with, I sent an e-mail to John Ewing with my question and he suggested I post here, so I'm hoping y'all can help me out...

... I’ve had my Rebel and the Matching 112 cab for 5 or 6 months now and though I like the amp in many ways, it has kind of been a love hate relationship due to the fact that it can be very bright. I would describe it as a jangly, chimey (not in a good way to me), spikey thing going on in the high end that I can't dial out and it's driving me nuts... It stands out on top of everything else. It's there even if I dial the treble out completely. If I flip the bright switch on, the treble just rips my ears off. (BTW I play an LP style guitar)

It doesn't seem to matter which power tubes I have it set on (6v6 or el84 or both) I've swapped around many different brand pre amp tubes and I've tried 2 different speakers as well as the stock speaker. A WGS Veteran 30 and a Green Beret.

If this is just the nature of the amp, then I‘m afraid I will not be able to live with it. Am I over looking something? I have also checked the bias and it’s dead on. I have tried different guitars and plugged straight into the amp with no effects and it makes no difference.

John did say that the Rebel is a bright amp, and that I have already tried what he would suggest so I‘m hoping maybe you guys can come up something else I might try...

John also suggested maybe the Rebel 30. I assume he wouldn’t suggest this if it was as bright as the 20. Can some one verify that? I’m a little worried that 30 watts will be too loud, since the Rebel 20 is about as loud as I want to get. How much louder is it? I do like the idea of having 2 channels…


Thanks,

Steve
 
I don't know this amp by experience, but the ten watts extra wouldn't make that much difference in volume output. Having two channels might help.

You might also try a different speaker, or speaker cabinet.

:confused: :rock:
 
try the tonetubby ceramic speakers, should smooth the high end perfectly for you. :thumbsup:
 
Welcome Steve!
I am brand new here myself, but I can't help sharing some thoughts. I had the Rebel 30 for a couple of weeks and loved the sound and features(can't live without channel switching!). I felt the tone was nice and warm through my 2x12 cab and got a great range of tones without needing to be loud. I have heard that the Rebel 30 is voiced a little darker than the 20, can't confirm it.(I decided to step up to the Renegade for various reasons.) I would recommend exploring alternate tubes as the stock tubes can be a bit harsh. I put JJ's in mine and they gave it a nice furry edge.
David
 
Thanks guys, I have tried a WGS Veteran 30 and a Green Beret and they do the same thing. The problem is not as pronounced with the Vet. 30 but I much prefer the low end on the GB. or the Stocker. I haven't tried a different cab though.

I have researched tons of speakers and had my mind made up to try a Scumback M75 based on what I've read about them on this forum and TGP, and what Jim told me when I e-mailed him.

I have never looked at the Tone tubbys, but I just looked at the web site and it looks like there is just one ceramic for guitar. Did I look at the right thing? There doesn't seem to be any description. How would you describe it's tone, and can you compare it with anything? (I don't even have a way to listen to clips if I found them right now)
 
Underground":28k655ht said:
Welcome Steve!
I am brand new here myself, but I can't help sharing some thoughts. I had the Rebel 30 for a couple of weeks and loved the sound and features(can't live without channel switching!). I felt the tone was nice and warm through my 2x12 cab and got a great range of tones without needing to be loud. I have heard that the Rebel 30 is voiced a little darker than the 20, can't confirm it.(I decided to step up to the Renegade for various reasons.) I would recommend exploring alternate tubes as the stock tubes can be a bit harsh. I put JJ's in mine and they gave it a nice furry edge.
David
Click to expand...

Welcome to you to then David!

Now that I looked at the e-mail responce from John again, He did say the Rebel 30w is darker. I'm going to have to test one out.

I have tried JJs and the problem I have with them is they seemed to flub out when palm muting and have kind of a weird thump. I didn't like jj preamp tubes much at all. I have also tried Tungsol RI, Mullard RI, Sovtek WA(stock), WC and LPS and a GT Chinese (labeled Fender). I think that's all of them.
 
Thanks Steve,
Wow, you have really sampled a lot of tubes! What have you settled on? I'm always looking for advice.
David
 
I'm not having a brightness problem with mine. I did replace V1 with a NOS JAN Phillips 5751 to tame the gain a little bit. Even with my Strat it's not overly bright. I run 2 Egnater 112 cabs and dial up the bass with the Strat. On my humbucker style guitars like my 62 Supro Martinique and an Ibanez Artcore, I actually need to use the bright switch.
 
Dirty Steve, what kind of pickups and guitar are you using, exactly?

What was your previous amp?

What tone are you going for (name a player, album, etc...)
 
I've had no problem with brightness with my Rebel 20.... although my hearing isn't what it was !!
I use a Gibson LP Custom from 1989 with no mods and a Marshall 4x12 (old)

In band rehearsals I use the studio's Laney 4x12 (no idea what is in it)

I have the bright switch and the tight switch engaged....

I play with a classic Rock sound with the gain backed off to around 3 o'clock - the amp is very loud and responsive. I was used to playing with too much overdrive but have now learned to use the 'proper' sound of a tube amp to great effect.

Its great to be able to hear the notes of a chord ringing out and to dig in to get more volume when required.

You should maybe compare another Rebel 20 to rule out a problem with yours.....

:)
 
Underground":23w3z9f8 said:
Thanks Steve,
Wow, you have really sampled a lot of tubes! What have you settled on? I'm always looking for advice.
David
Click to expand...
Right now I have Sovteks in there. A WA in v3 and WCs in v1 & 2. I think a Tungsol in V2 sounded the best but I swapped it the other day in a last ditch effort to tame the highs, but I don't think it made much difference.

RockStarNick":23w3z9f8 said:
Dirty Steve, what kind of pickups and guitar are you using, exactly?

What was your previous amp?

What tone are you going for (name a player, album, etc...)
Click to expand...
Guitar is a Michael Kelly Patriot Shadow (all mahogany LP style) Pickups are Seymour Duncan Pearly Gates neck, & Custom 8 bridge (that’s a Custom, Custom 5, or Custom Custom with the magnet swapped out for an Alnico 8,. it's not a production pup, but it's the best pickup I've ever tried, IMHO) I should've mentioned that I also tried different pickups too. I tried a Custom Custom, and a JB4, and I also tried swapping the magnet in the JB to an Alnico 2 (Seymour’s fav.) and none of it made any difference.

Previous amp was a Peavey Classic 50. It was way too loud, so I traded it for the Rebel. I bought the Rebel because of the good tones at lower volume. (The problem I’m having wasn’t much of an issue until I started jamming with some other guys and started to use more volume.)

If I had to describe the tones I’m going for,.. I’d call it a cross between several players more than just one tone. I guess I‘d say the main influences on “my” main tone are, The Cult - Electric album, Social Distortion - Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell, and probably some GN’R AFD, but that would be Izzy’s rhythm tone, not Slash. And then every once in a while, I like to venture into some old school thrash territory, like Metallica’s 1st 2 albums… and if that’s not enough, I’ve recently discovered Jack White and now I’ve started chasing some of those type tones, too…

UncleNazz":23w3z9f8 said:
You should maybe compare another Rebel 20 to rule out a problem with yours.....

:)
Click to expand...
I think this is going to be my next step. It seems like I'm the only one with this problem. I think I'll try out the Rebel 30 while I'm there...

After playing the amp last night I would swear it's getting worse...
 
Are you testing it out plugged straight in, or with effects.
 
When you turn the tone down on the guitar, is it not helping much?
 
If I turn down the guitar tone it is still present but it stays in proportion with the overall tone. Does that makes sense? When the over all tone is darker, it is still present on top, but it does darken with the rest of it...

Thanks for all the input, and suggestions. Since no one else seems to have this issue, I'm really starting to think there's something wrong with my amp. :cry: I'm going to do what UncleNazz suggested, and take it to Guitar Center this weekend (with the stock tubes back in it) and compare it with another. That seems to me like the most logical thing to do at this point...

I'll post my findings...
 
Hope you get a good experience....

In a rock covers band I do Enter Sandman and Lil' Devil with authentic sounds coming out of the Rebel 20.I had to get my first one swapped after a couple of months due to noise like frying when turned up - see my previous posts.....

I can't stress enough the joy I have had with this amp !! After years of mucking about with digital fx and pre-amp/power amp configs...I now have the sound I was after 20 years ago when I played with 2 Marshall stacks and a tube screamer split through a stereo chorus pedal.....I am in GB so they are cheaper here.

The Rebel 20 is easier to carry than a Marshall MV too which is a bonus....

Keep on Rockin'

Merry Christmas to you all hohohohoho :lol: :LOL:
 
I have kind of the same issue, but I play pretty clean blues and the the brightness isn't so much of an big deal.

First, try working the tube mix knob a little. The EL84 side is brighter, especially in higher gain. The 6V6 side is less bright, but gets a little muddy at higher volumes.

I keep the treble at ten or eleven o'clock and bring the mids up to about 2 o'clock. I think turning up the mids a little seems to make it less bright.

When I turn the tone down on the guitar, I think I'm experiencing the same thing as you. Less bright, but it loses alot of the character of the sound and doesn't help much.
 
dude its the preamp tubes most likely..
I got some jjs Ill send ya to darken that sucka up a bit for v1 and v2.
I have been through numerous tubes with my egnaters all the new crap and mostly stuck with Ei old school 12ax7 and Tungsram and Telefunkens...
But in your case the teles will bright it up a bit some plain old jj 12ax7 will darkin it extremely..
Send me your address and Ill send ya a couple..
I hate them personally but some folks love them :lol: :LOL:
 
I'm interested to hear what you'll say after comparing your Rebel with some others...Mine is'nt too bright,not at all.I had a M&B who was too bright and it was really difficult to dial in...but amps will react differently with different guitars etc.. NB: "just42dave",i would love to try some JJ12AX7's if you have some... ;) I also have some tubes i don't use...
 
Well I headed off to GC, Rebel and guitar in hand, and I compared my amp with another Rebel 20, and to my surprise, there's nothing wrong with mine, :rock: I couldn’t really tell the difference between the two. If anything, mine seemed a little warmer, ha ha. That was a shock! What I did learn however, is that in a big open space, with the cab on the concrete floor, the highs were not a problem. I guess the acoustics suck in my apartment…

… so,.. I went home, moved my cab to a different place in the room, and set it down on the floor. I’ve always put my amps up on something, up off the floor, that’s what I’ve always done and never considered putting it on the floor. Bass was always boomy with my amp on the floor, but apparently not this one. I also acquired an EH pre amp tube, and tried it in all positions, and ended up liking it in V2. Those two things alone helped a lot. It’s still bright, but not so spikey and annoying, and I can live with that.

I wish there was mod I could do to make the amp a little darker, and then go back to normal with the bright switch on. That would be cool… I’m still going to try another speaker before long. Either a Scumback M75 or a ToneTubby,.. Not sure which yet… and I’d like to try a different 112 cab, too. I actually thought an Epiphone 112 sounded pretty good.

As far as just42dave s offer. That’s really cool of you bro, and I appreciate it, but I also don’t like JJ preamp tubes. I’ve have tried them (many times), and I just can’t get along with them.
 
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