RECORDING DIRECT USING IRs?

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Can anyone tell me how to record say a Marshall head direct into your DAW and instead of micing up a real cab..... use Redwirez IRs or a similar product?

Have you done this and what equipment was needed.....and how did you feel about the results?

Thanks in advance guys!
 
As the distributor for the Torpedo product line, I feel qualified to reply :)

You would need to decided how you intend to load your amp

options are:

a) use a speaker cab and tap the speaker out to line level, Suhr Iso line out is a good choice for this as are many DI's out there (that accept speaker level). Disadvantage is that the speaker volume may need to be managed depending on your neighbours (be it other instruments like an acoustic bass or a piano or people who don't care to hear like neighbours and sleeping kids)

b) use a load box or attenuator/speaker combo that either has a line out or add a DI or iso-line out as above

c) some heads do have a signal present at the effects send when on standby, ie only the power tubes are standby. You may need to plug a dummy 1/4 jack into the return in order to activate the send. While most amp builders agree an amp will be fine on standby without a load, it's better to have a speaker or load connected just in case someone flips a switch. Ideally when using the pre-amp out/ f/x send, you'd need to emulate the power stage as well )(Torpedo PI-101 has this)

d) use a Torpedo VB-101 which integrates the load and cabinet/mic emulation in one box, great solution but $$$

Please also check out the free version Torpedo PI-101 www.two-notes.com/PI-FREE

Andy www.diffusion-audio.com
 
Thanks for the tips guys...much appreciated.

Andy - sorry for my noobie ignorance here....

I looked at the Torpedo rack unit and it sounds incredible and would be perfect but I'd need to sell my house to pay for it so :no:
I had a Palmer unit and see that this is along the same idea.
Since I can't afford that I'm wondering about the plugin version.

I have a Splawn head and 4x12 cab as well as a Radial DI. I'm recording at home and was using the DI for reamping opportunities at another "real" studio but I wasn't the guy actually doing the reamping. I put the miced cab sound on one Cubase track and put the DI on a second track. I "understand" that system.

I also had an AxeFx and bought the RedWirez IRs and that worked when recording direct to my DAW. Here's what I don't understand. When using the AxeFx, the Redwirez were "inside" the AxeFx so to speak, and when I did a guitar track it was as if I was just simulating micing my real amp.

What I'm not understanding with the plug-in idea is this....

To get my Splawn head "sound" into Cubase and then use the plugin....don't I still need to mic the actual real Splawn cabinet to get that sound into Cubase on a track and then if I apply the Torpedo plugin where/how does that happen? I would already have the real miced cab sound on a track. I understand if I have a chorus plugin for example I'm just adding that to the sound I already have recorded. If I add the Torpedo cab sound plugin aren't I just "adding" that to the real miced cab sound I already have in there?

If I use the Radial DI on it's own it's of course just a clean terrible sounding guitar so I wouldn't be hearing the Splawn head. I can understand adding the cab simulation to the DI track but where is the Splawn head sound at this point? :confused:

What am I missing here? I realize I'm probably making this more complicated than it really is but I'm confused on this. Hopefully you can understand what I'm getting at through all this babble - not even sure I made it clear what I don't understand. :doh:

Can the RedWirez Cab Impulse set I already have be imported and used through the Torpedo plugin?

Also - does the quality of the DI box matter? I have the Radial DI but is it better to step up to either the Suhr or Countryman?

Thanks Andy.
 
Not sure what you mean by Radial DI, but the Countryman is not just a guitar DI, it can handle amp loads as well. Instead of plugging your amp into your cabinet, you plug it into the Countryman and move the switch on the front over to 'speaker' mode and you are recording your entire amp, power tubes, transformers and everything, safely. Then you just need to apply a cab sim or some EQ (all a cab sim does is apply EQ anyway) and you have what you are looking for.
 
I've done it using the Redwirez....my setup is: amp---Hotplate on load (make sure to reverse the eq switches)---Hotplate line Out into mixer----mixer firewire output into macbook pro running Logic Pro----using the Sound Designer plug in to run the IR's.....it actually sounds really good.
 
Rogue is doing this maybe he can drop in with his thoughts.
 
Are you wanting to do it silently or do you care if your speaker cabinet is making sound?
 
I run the effects send out of my amp into a line input on my MOTU 828mk3, into a channel in Logic Pro, with the guitar amp pro plugin set to clean tube amp, 4x12 cab, dynamic mic off center, and done. My amp lets me leave it in standby, and still sends the preamp signal out of the effects send jack. This way, keeping a load on the amp is less of an issue, but I still leave my cab plugged in just in case.
 
This is great - thanks guys!

The "Radial DI"......is just a DI box made by Radial but it doesn't have a "load" feature so I see it's ok for reamping.... but not the application we're talking about here.

I can go either way for recording....I'm lucky to be able to use a cab and loud amp or I could do silent recording. I'm trying to stay away from micing the cabinet because I just can't get a good sound no matter what I've tried...and I've tried it all :cry:

The Countryman idea seems like a good fit....basically the same as using a Palmer in that I'm still using the Splawn head? I would then use the Redwirez and/or Torpedo as a plugin I assume to add the cab and mic elements. Correct?

I have a Chandler Pre TG2 going into a Fireface RME800 into Cubase.
Would you guys go into the Chandler Pre and eq a bit first.... or just straight into the Fireface800 and then apply the Redwirez or Torpedo?

The AxeFx just didn't suit me and it didn't help that you can't do the firmware updates Cliff sends out if you're using the Fireface800. Ya I admit it....I'm basically "old school".
A tube head on "10". I understand THAT! haha.

This forum is invaluable! :thumbsup:
Thanks again.
 
If you are able to have your amp loud, use a DI box (the Radial would be good, or a Suhr Iso) between your amp and speaker cab. Run that line out to your DAW. In there you can use a convolution reverb plug in to import IRs. Kefir is a free one. It's the one I use. Quality IRs are the way to go and they are cheap. Redwires are very popular and a lot of options. I've had better luck with OwnHammers though. You don't get as many options (which is good for me) and I feel they sound a little better. I have better success with mixing them as well. But Redwires are nice.

You'll get a good tone that way. Using an attenuator for silent recording really affects the tone and a lot of tweaking has to be done to compensate and it still never quite gets there. However, that is a good silent recording solution. If you don't have to go silent, you'll be good.
 
Thanks Rogue.
I'll definitely take a look at those OwnHammers.
 
Here are a few di's that will also handle speaker levels, no load is included so either a load or speaker is still required

The littlelabs multi-z pip http://littlelabs.com/multiz.html

Radial jdv http://www.radialeng.com/di-jdv.htm

bss ar-133 http://www.bssaudio.com/productpg.php?product_id=17

There are some di's that also emulate a speaker using filtering, these should only be used if the emulation can be bypassed.

The tone going into the daw will be strident and gnarly all right...think Revolution or Reelin' in the Years. That's fine, the speaker emulation plug in ill take care of that.

The full version Torpedo plug-in will allow user or third party IR's to be added. Please note that the ability to move the mic position is uniquely available when the Two Notes speaker IR's are used. There's over 30 currently with more being added. Most third party IR's offer a series of files with variety of mic positions. Personally, I prefer moving a virtual mic just like if I was sending my assistant into the tracking room (with him wearing earplugs, hopefully).

If you like the micing technique where one places the mic using white noise as a test signal to get the postion the gives the fullest sound (using the noise), grab the Torpedo Free and use the same method....great tracks that grab their place in a mix. Same goes of course, with the full version once it comes available.

If your cpu can handle it, multing the tracking and using multiple instances will give great results...or freeze or render (bounce to disk) layers of guitar

If you have an Axe f/x or 11, try making a wet/dry/wet sound using a tube amp, di, speaker emulator in the center and the stereo f/x panned

Andy
 
I'll have to give some props to the torpedo plug in. I tried the free version and was very impressed with it. Sounds really good and doesn't take but a minute to find your sound. I just can't swing the price of the full version. Definitely worth looking into if you have the money.
 
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