Recording question. How to sound like a pro.

[HilltopExplosion]

I just watched the youtube vid on the thread about which mic to use. I have a heil pr30. I can get a great tone from my amp, it sounds good through headphones, I record and it sounds like the demo in the clip.. NOW, what do I have to do to get that Thumping, grinding professional sound like they have at the end of the clip? I have sm57, 58, heil pr30, sennheiser 609, sennheiser mk4, running to sapphire 6 to laptop. Ableton Live 8 is the program I'm using. I have double tracked, quadruple tracked, messed with EQ, but still can't get the tone I hear from my cab to the recording. I can get better results using my phone.. any help, or pointing in the right direction would be appreciated. Everything I look up for recording using Ableton goes to BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP Dubbstep or club music, not rock. a LOT of you guys have it down.. can you tell me what I'm missing?

 

[mniel8195]

Get a bass...What kind of amp are you using?

 

[metalsoup]

It's difficult to know what the isolated guitar part would sound like given only the full mix you hear at the end of the video. I'm not sure what mic(s) they're using for the clip at the very end, but there are layers of guitars and bass and drums.

So, have you tried mixing your recorded guitar tone with bass and drums to see how it all sounds together? More than once I've been surprised by what just the guitar part sounds like when given the opportunity to compare a full mix to isolated tracks.

 

[kasperjensen]

Great sounding guitars are often thinner and have less gain than one might think.

I think you would get a better answer if you showed us some specific clips.

 

[reverymike]

Great sounding guitars are often thinner and have less gain than one might think.

I think you would get a better answer if you showed us some specific clips.

This x10. What sounds great in a mix is NOT what sounds great by yourself in the bedroom. They also have way less gain than you think they have.

 

[HilltopExplosion]

O.K., Thanks for the replies, I have a bass, but maybe I need to try different ways to mic it, I will work on a short clip of something today and repost. I have a song in the videos and clip collective.. Appalachian cryin in your beer.. I did this in 2011.. in my bedroom/office/studio. The guitars are double tracked, both electric and acoustic. The drums are midi programmed. The singing sucks 'cause... I can't sing, but I write and have fun with it, but I think it's a good example of what I'm talking about, the guitars sound thin, I also did BE100 with mxr overdrive a few pages back on here. Same thing, it sounds ok, but doesn't have the "thump" for the lack of a better word, or specific frequency I'm looking for, and hearing when I play. I appreciate the help!

 

[HilltopExplosion]

It's difficult to know what the isolated guitar part would sound like given only the full mix you hear at the end of the video. I'm not sure what mic(s) they're using for the clip at the very end, but there are layers of guitars and bass and drums.

So, have you tried mixing your recorded guitar tone with bass and drums to see how it all sounds together? More than once I've been surprised by what just the guitar part sounds like when given the opportunity to compare a full mix to isolated tracks.

Thanks, yes I have whole songs, drums, bass, lyrics, but I can't get that 'pro' quality to my recordings, not sure if i need to add eq, compression, more tracks, at lower gain, more gear.. etc. It might just be 100% operator error, (most likely) but that's what I'm tryin to figure out. In the Heil mic video, at one point he plays a single track, I have no problem getting that quality of recording, It's after that (finished product) I'm having trouble with. I appreciate the suggestions!

 

[dirtyfunkg]

Panning guitars helps add thickness, especially on double tracks. Also, once you have all instruments tracked, subtle use of eq on each instrument will help. Multi band compressors also.

Mic angle/placement can have a huge impact also. My standard mic placement is to turn the amp up, put on headphones, and place the mic where the white noise sounds the most intense. While mixing, put a gate on the track and/or use a parametric eq to find the white noise frequency and cut it out, but make sure the eq does not ruin your tone

 

[HilltopExplosion]

Panning guitars helps add thickness, especially on double tracks. Also, once you have all instruments tracked, subtle use of eq on each instrument will help. Multi band compressors also.

Mic angle/placement can have a huge impact also. My standard mic placement is to turn the amp up, put on headphones, and place the mic where the white noise sounds the most intense. While mixing, put a gate on the track and/or use a parametric eq to find the white noise frequency and cut it out, but make sure the eq does not ruin your tone

Thanks for the suggestions, everything you mentioned, EXCEPT for white noise I've done. I've used spectrum to see where frequency is lacking or too much and used parametric with Q setting to reduce or add freq. I've panned hard left right, with different mics, cabs at the same time, double tracked with that setup, seperated left and right up to 23ms to add width. A lot of experimentation to find that solid sound. Would you mind explaining what you mean by white noise? Do you mean like closest to the dust cap hiss or...?

 

[messenger]

I just watched the youtube vid on the thread about which mic to use. I have a heil pr30. I can get a great tone from my amp, it sounds good through headphones, I record and it sounds like the demo in the clip.. NOW, what do I have to do to get that Thumping, grinding professional sound like they have at the end of the clip? I have sm57, 58, heil pr30, sennheiser 609, sennheiser mk4, running to sapphire 6 to laptop. Ableton Live 8 is the program I'm using. I have double tracked, quadruple tracked, messed with EQ, but still can't get the tone I hear from my cab to the recording. I can get better results using my phone.. any help, or pointing in the right direction would be appreciated. Everything I look up for recording using Ableton goes to BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP Dubbstep or club music, not rock. a LOT of you guys have it down.. can you tell me what I'm missing?

I'm not sure which video you are talking about but if you get the same results all the way to the end and then are missing something maybe ask the person that made the video what they did after the "demo in the clip"

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

Do what Ola Englund does. 9 guitar tracks L, 9 guitar tracks R and 18 Center.

 

[HilltopExplosion]

Do what Ola Englund does. 9 guitar tracks L, 9 guitar tracks R and 18 Center.

SHEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIT!! I can barely play the same thing twice.. much less 9.. plus 9... 15, 16, WAIT! Forgot about the toes... 27.. 35, I mean 36 times!

 

[JamesPeters]

Everything I look up for recording using Ableton goes to BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP Dubbstep or club music

Lol! Ableton is aimed at composers who use it for that sort of music since its workflow is good for loops and such. Search around for more general info on recording, not specifically using Ableton. Irrespective of what DAW software you use, you'll be doing the same basic things in terms of recording and mixing.

Here are a couple articles to consider:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec09/a ... etalii.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec09/a ... etalii.htm

There are some good Youtube channels too...

 

[metalsoup]

So, you're okay with your guitar tone in isolation but not satisfied with how the full mix comes across. As others have indicated, in general the bass is what fills out the low end while the guitars give the sound its teeth. Of course, the bass drum adds to the low end punch as well, especially when carefully timed with the guitar and bass. There is definitely a synergy going on here where the whole ultimately ends up greater than the sum of the parts. It really is rather magical when happens, when everything comes together in just the right way. It's exactly why some people pay a professional recording and mixing engineer to work a little studio magic. Compression, EQ, and other post processing touches also play a role in "gluing" the mix together and helping it sound polished and professional.

From what I understand, recording great sounding heavy rhythm guitars is one of the more difficult challenges to master. It all starts with the tracking, mic placement, amp settings, etc., but by no means ends there. I'm no professional to be sure, but I have been thoroughly enjoying the journey as I continuously work on my home recordings and watch them improve little by little over time, gaining new insights along the way about the interactive nature of all the parts. It is truly a marvelous puzzle to sort out.


The same YouTube guy (SpectreSoundStudios) that made the video on the Heil PR30 has also made several other videos on recording technique such as the following video on How to Record Heavy Guitar. These videos give many useful pointers.

RT member Simon (aka, ThyFinalPain) is basically an expert at recording super heavy guitars. Everything he does sounds so thick and heavy. Here is a video from him showing the significant impact of mic placement (just one important piece of the puzzle).

Now, just thrown in bass, drums and some cookie monster vocals and you're good:

 

[HilltopExplosion]

Everything I look up for recording using Ableton goes to BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP Dubbstep or club music

Lol! Ableton is aimed at composers who use it for that sort of music since its workflow is good for loops and such. Search around for more general info on recording, not specifically using Ableton. Irrespective of what DAW software you use, you'll be doing the same basic things in terms of recording and mixing.

Here are a couple articles to consider:

<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec09/articles/metalii.htm</span>

<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec09/articles/metalii.htm</span>

There are some good Youtube channels too...

So, you're okay with your guitar tone in isolation but not satisfied with how the full mix comes across. As others have indicated, in general the bass is what fills out the low end while the guitars give the sound its teeth. Of course, the bass drum adds to the low end punch as well, especially when carefully timed with the guitar and bass. There is definitely a synergy going on here where the whole ultimately ends up greater than the sum of the parts. It really is rather magical when happens, when everything comes together in just the right way. It's exactly why some people pay a professional recording and mixing engineer to work a little studio magic. Compression, EQ, and other post processing touches also play a role in "gluing" the mix together and helping it sound polished and professional.

From what I understand, recording great sounding heavy rhythm guitars is one of the more difficult challenges to master. It all starts with the tracking, mic placement, amp settings, etc., but by no means ends there. I'm no professional to be sure, but I have been thoroughly enjoying the journey as I continuously work on my home recordings and watch them improve little by little over time, gaining new insights along the way about the interactive nature of all the parts. It is truly a marvelous puzzle to sort out.


The same YouTube guy (SpectreSoundStudios) that made the video on the Heil PR30 has also made several other videos on recording technique such as the following video on How to Record Heavy Guitar. These videos give many useful pointers.

RT member Simon (aka, ThyFinalPain) is basically an expert at recording super heavy guitars. Everything he does sounds so thick and heavy. Here is a video from him showing the significant impact of mic placement (just one important piece of the puzzle).

Now, just thrown in bass, drums and some cookie monster vocals and you're good:

I just got SCHOOLED! Thanks guys I appreciate the help.. It's going to take a minute to absorb and be able to apply everything here, some things I know, a lot of it is new territory. A lot of info. Now it's time to scrap what I was doing, take a step back and try again.
I appreciate everyone's help and guidance! It is a journey, that's for sure. Sometimes a very frustrating one.. but it's places like this, where jokers like myself can learn from other's experience, that makes it fun again.

 

[PatF]

This is a really good read. Maybe the most informative guitar forum post ever. It has its own website.

http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned mastering. It makes a big difference for the mix as a whole, and it's individual components, including guitars.

 

[slyym]

Check out Duelingmixes.com and also the 2 guys that run it have there own mixing and recording videos that are really cool. I've signed up for dueling mixes and have learned a shitload more than I did anywhere else.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned mastering. It makes a big difference for the mix as a whole, and it's individual components, including guitars.

Yes, thump is coming from mastering more than anything, especially if you like the guitars as is.
Do a low cut on almost everything: guitars cut up to 60>120
Bass guitar low cut below 30 with a dip around 80 to make room for the ...
Kick drum cut with 80 being its spot
Everything else you can basically put a blanket low cut on around 80-120 until you get used to it

Then master it and the lows boosted wlll sound tight and clear without the mud
I love the new Stealth Master Plug from TRacks, it is awesome and not too much $

 

[HilltopExplosion]

This is a really good read. Maybe the most informative guitar forum post ever. It has its own website.

http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

Yeah there is some good stuff, I found it searching for recording techniques, He babbles a lot, but good info. Thanks!

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned mastering. It makes a big difference for the mix as a whole, and it's individual components, including guitars.

This is something else I need to learn, when you say Mastering, are you referring to the master track which all tracks feed into? I try to "master" but end up "messing" . Do you know a good resource for mastering?

Check out <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">Duelingmixes.com</span> and also the 2 guys that run it have there own mixing and recording videos that are really cool. I've signed up for dueling mixes and have learned a shitload more than I did anywhere else.

I went there and it's 27 bucks a month, I can only afford "free" at the moment, but thanks for the info.

Unless I missed it, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned mastering. It makes a big difference for the mix as a whole, and it's individual components, including guitars.

Yes, thump is coming from mastering more than anything, especially if you like the guitars as is.
Do a low cut on almost everything: guitars cut up to 60>120
Bass guitar low cut below 30 with a dip around 80 to make room for the ...
Kick drum cut with 80 being its spot
Everything else you can basically put a blanket low cut on around 80-120 until you get used to it

Then master it and the lows boosted wlll sound tight and clear without the mud
I love the new Stealth Master Plug from TRacks, it is awesome and not too much $

Thanks, the clip I'm working on I will try your suggestions.. Thanks a lot!