Renegade 1x12 with Tourmaster 2x12

[dieselmx]

Hey guys,

Question for the pros ... I currently have a Renegade 1x12 combo. I crank it at practice and am going to run it through a marshall mc2x12 as well. that beefs it up a little bit but i was wondering if i would notice a difference if i got the egnater tourmaster 2x12 to run the 1x12 combo through. I just hate the fact that one amp is black and the eganter is beige. I would love for them to be the same and i bet the egnater would sound better.

any thoughts?

and

 

[pipedwho]

The TM 212 is quite large for a 2x12 and sounds huge. It has a removable rear cover that lets you convert it from a closed back to a 3/4 back.

 

[dieselmx]

So how would the ohms work then ... if i plug the 1x12 in to the extension cab ,... do i have to switch ohms to 8 instead of 16 (which i think its at now). the renegade is a mono head i believe or would i use the stereo ones?

is it even made to be setup this way?

 

[pipedwho]

You should connect the output of the amp to the 8 Ohm mono input on the cab and set your amp to 8 Ohms.

 

[Buckeyedog]

what ohm rating is in the 112 combo?? If it's an 8 ohm speaker, then you would run your amp on 4 ohm and plug into the mono 8 ohm jack in the 212. Your 112 would be getting the same power as the 212.

If the internal speaker is 16 ohm, then you still need to set your amp to 4 ohm and plug into the 8 ohm mono. Your total load will be 5.33 Ohm. Your 212 would then be getting twice the power of your 112.

Or if your internal speaker is 16 ohm, you could plug into one of the 16 ohm inputs in the 212 (only one speaker will work). They you set the amp at 8 ohm.


This is all assuming you want to run the 112 AND the 212.

 

[dieselmx]

You should connect the output of the amp to the 8 Ohm mono input on the cab and set your amp to 8 Ohms.

what ohm rating is in the 112 combo?? If it's an 8 ohm speaker, then you would run your amp on 4 ohm and plug into the mono 8 ohm jack in the 212. Your 112 would be getting the same power as the 212.

If the internal speaker is 16 ohm, then you still need to set your amp to 4 ohm and plug into the 8 ohm mono. Your total load will be 5.33 Ohm. Your 212 would then be getting twice the power of your 112.
Or if your internal speaker is 16 ohm, you could plug into one of the 16 ohm inputs in the 212 (only one speaker will work). They you set the amp at 8 ohm.
This is all assuming you want to run the 112 AND the 212.

Thnaks Guys! - yeah see i wasnt sure how to best set this up ... Ok i found it ....

12) IMPEDANCE SWITCH: Set this switch to match the IMPEDANCE of your speakers. The proper setting for the Renegade 1x12 is 16 ohms. The setting for the Renegade 2x12 is 8 ohms and 4x10 is 8 ohms. The proper setting for the Renegade Head is to match whatever your speaker impedance is.

So is every cab different? right now i have the marshall 2x12 extension for this and the back looks like this:

So if im correct, Right now, I would set my renegade to 4 ohms and plug it into the 4 ohm mono jack?
and then if i get the renegade cab .. plug into the 8 ohm and switch the combo to 8 ohm?

What if the Ohm is set wrong can that damage the amp or speakers?

Sorry for all the questions .. just dont want to damage the amp or speakers with my limited knowledge on ohms.

 

[Buckeyedog]

Well, not really. When you say "match" it means if the "stand alone" cab is 4 ohm, then yes set the "head/amp" to 4 ohm. However, you still havent' said if you are running the internal combo speaker WITH the 212 cab. If you are, then you are running a parallel load. You will have the 16 ohm combo speaker AND either the 8 ohm TM cab OR the 4 ohm Marshall cab. IF that's the case, then my e-mail above stands.

Parallel calculation is the product/sum. So if you have a 16 and an 8, then 16*8/16+8 = 128/24 = 5.33 ohm load. Set amp to 4 ohm.

If you run the 4 ohm Marshall with your 16 ohm combo, then it would yield 16*4/16+4 or 64/20 or 3.2 ohm. Still set your amp to 4 ohm.

But your TM 212 will get twice the power/loud of the combo. And the Marshall would be 4 times the power/loud as the combo.

 

[dieselmx]

it will always be "with" the combo. what i want to do is run the combo along with the ext cab.

so it looks like the way your saying is either way running "either" cab the Renegade will be set to 4 ohms?

what if i leave it at 16 and run the external cab ... will there be damage?

 

[Buckeyedog]

Yes, most likely there will be damage to an amp set at 16 ohm running into a 4 ohm load. Bad on transformer and power tubes.

Hopefully Bruce or Ian will chime in here as well.

 

[dieselmx]

so it looks like the way your saying is either way running "either" cab the Renegade will be set to 4 ohms?

 

[Buckeyedog]

Yep. And plug into the mono input of the 212 cab.

Hate to give you something else to think about, but with a bit of rewiring the Marshall cab, you can wire it for a 16 ohm load instead of a 4 ohm load. Looks like it has two 8 ohm speakers wired in parallel for 4 ohm. Wire them in series for 16 ohm load, then run your Renegade at 8 ohm with your 16 Renegade speaker and the 16 Marshall cab. Just a thought.

 

[dieselmx]

sorry with all the questions .. will try this tonight ... you think i will notice a difference in sound when i set the amp to 4 ohms?

I guess i dont get why you would set them both to 8ohms .. wouldn't you set the combo to 4 ohms when connecting the Marshall and 8ohms when connecting the egnater? pics below....

MARSHALL EXT CAB:

and then 8 ohms if connecting the egnater?

EGNATER EXT CAB:

or ami i missing something and you would still change the combo amp to 4 either way? my head hurts. haha.

 

[Buckeyedog]

I know it's kind of funky. But like I said, if you have an 8 ohm load AND a 16 ohm load in parallel, the total load is 5.33 ohm. See my math above. You want to be a bit below vs. a bit high. You could really be fine in the Eggie at the 8 ohm setting, but I always go on the low side.

Going into the Marshall, you have a 16 AND 4, which equals 3.2!! So that's a must.

 

[dieselmx]

i just called john at egnater and he confused me .. he said he wouldnt use the marshall without rewiring it to 16ohms... I also asked about the egnater model 2x12 and he said not to use that either for what i want to do sicne its not made to be setup that way. im just confused by that....

there has to be a way to use as is. there is only 1 input on the marshall and i just need to know if i am going to setup the eggie to 4, 8 or 16 ohms. i just want to use all 3 speakers at once with the best settings to not damage the amp.

Im going with 4 ohms on the eggie and plugging into the one jack that says 4 ohms MONO (8ohms stereo) on the marshall ... i think at this point .. wish me luck!

oh man what a headache.. haha.

 

[Buckeyedog]

He's technically right, but you'll be fine doing this like you just said. It will be funky because the power distribution will be different, but that's ok. Just give it a go. I'd mainly stick with the Eggie cab if you can. I don't think I'd run the Marshall real hard if possible. Just a bit low on the Ohm load. Running 3 speakers is just weird. No way around it really.

 

[hisclimb]

I agree, running three speakers is weird...I'd just run the marshall cab on it's own...I don't think you're gaining anything by trying to run three. Like others have said, it's funky and the impedances would be real weird.

There's reasons nobody really makes three speaker amps...

 

[hisclimb]

The best way would be to rewire the marshall cab to 16 ohms. then you can use the 1x12 and 2x12 together with the renegade set to 8 ohms. No mismatch problems then...

good luck!

 

[pipedwho]

When a speaker says it's rated at 8 or 16 Ohms, this is the impedance as measured at 1kHz. If you look at the full spectrum plot of a speaker it will range from slightly below the 1kHz rating to impedances upwards of 4 or 5 times that rating. The concept of speaker impedance matching is fairly important when using an output transformer (which is how tube amps convert their energy from high impedance / high voltage to low impedance / low voltage). As the match diverges from ideal, the power transfer efficiency drops off.

In a modern amp design, a slight mismatch is unlikely to cause any problems. Whereas an extreme mismatch (such as a short or open circuit at the speaker) can seriously damage the amp. That being said, a properly designed modern amp should have high voltage protection zeners at the tubes to prevent the flyback voltage from exceeding the B+ rail - thus preventing arcing of either the tube or output transformer.

 

[dieselmx]

Thanks for the feedback guys... yeah it looks like the best way is maybe to rewire the cab to 16ohms.

Few other questions ...

This thing is 65W and I have it pretty cranked at practice ... the channel volume is at 75% each and the mains are 75% .. Shouldnt that be crushing in sound/volume? Seems like I am not keeping up with the other guitar player who has a 2x12 mesa. Maybe i should use the MAIN2 (boost) volume on it instead? Is this louder?

Regarding just running the Marshall 2x12 without the 1x12 speaker and without rewiring the cab to 16 ohms, if i disable the 1x12 speaker in the egnater, would i then just plug the MAIN into the marshall left side where it says 8ohms mono and set the amp to 8ohms or keep it at 16homs?

 

[hisclimb]

Regarding just running the Marshall 2x12 without the 1x12 speaker and without rewiring the cab to 16 ohms, if i disable the 1x12 speaker in the egnater, would i then just plug the MAIN into the marshall left side where it says 8ohms mono and set the amp to 8ohms or keep it at 16homs?

Set the impedance to what ever the cabinet is rated at. If the cab is 16Ω, set the switch at 16Ω. If the cab is 4Ω set it to 4Ω...