Rollin.....

[Music&Chaos]

Hello all,

Rolled 16 different RCA 12AX7 Blackplates in my Rivera to find the best balance/combination. I needed the amp/tubes to have a balanced, lush sound, that is also transparent. This was quite the task, I found. You would be amazed at how each tube will accent different frequencies. Also, the individual gain factors and balance of each plate. Some tubes sounded better in specific positions, etc. Fortunately, I only have 3 input slots to mess around with.

I finally have a trio, in the proper order/positions, to achieve what I was seeking. The speaker demo recording will begin to take place again and my Avatar speaker thread will be alive once again.

It's crazy how picky you can be if you want. Maybe something would sound really great and kilelr for a clean strat, but not work so much on the dirty channel by accenting too much in the bass or something. If you get too much gain going on, you'll find that everything has a sharp/gainy edge to it, which can be great or bad, depending on what you are seeking. I am extremely fortunate to hava that stash of RCAs lying around.

I went through several Long Grey-Plate variants but landed on Blackplates again every time, so I just went all BPs.

What a wonderful, time consuming thing this has been.


After the speaker comparisons, I may do some tube comparisons since I have several on hand, we shall see!


You guys ever find that specific tubes just sound better? Or that certain tubes don't work when mixed in certain order?

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

Hello all,

Rolled 16 different RCA 12AX7 Blackplates in my Rivera to find the best balance/combination. I needed the amp/tubes to have a balanced, lush sound, that is also transparent. This was quite the task, I found. You would be amazed at how each tube will accent different frequencies. Also, the individual gain factors and balance of each plate. Some tubes sounded better in specific positions, etc. Fortunately, I only have 3 input slots to mess around with.

I finally have a trio, in the proper order/positions, to achieve what I was seeking. The speaker demo recording will begin to take place again and my Avatar speaker thread will be alive once again.

It's crazy how picky you can be if you want. Maybe something would sound really great and kilelr for a clean strat, but not work so much on the dirty channel by accenting too much in the bass or something. If you get too much gain going on, you'll find that everything has a sharp/gainy edge to it, which can be great or bad, depending on what you are seeking. I am extremely fortunate to hava that stash of RCAs lying around.

I went through several Long Grey-Plate variants but landed on Blackplates again every time, so I just went all BPs.

What a wonderful, time consuming thing this has been.


After the speaker comparisons, I may do some tube comparisons since I have several on hand, we shall see!


You guys ever find that specific tubes just sound better? Or that certain tubes don't work when mixed in certain order?

So, You like the RCA’s for clean tones, not for higher gain, right? ?

 

[Music&Chaos]

So, You like the RCA’s for clean tones, not for higher gain, right? ?

Incorrect, the RCA Blackplates KILL with gain. The BPs hold together the most of any tube when gain is a factor. This is one of the most deciding factors for me, as I primarily play heavier music. RCA BPs will distort faster than other tubes but always retain the core/fundamental tone of the guitar throughout. I can stack on gain, and still have that clarity.

Now, if you are talking about Greyplate variants, those can be hit or miss as far as OD/Clean tones go.

Example: Mullards are always great for OD but I find them lacking for effects or for clean use.

 

[Music&Chaos]

Fuzz Audio's description of the RCA Blackplate is pretty dead on IME:

"RCA 12AX7 black plates' distorted sound is legendary, with lows, mids, and highs all staying more defined than any other tube. If you like fuzz, or play heavy rock and roll- the black plate is for you.

That being said, black plates can be a tad noisy and if you are trying to avoid noise, these may not be a great choice. Likewise, if you play clean.. these should not be considered as they reduce headroom (breakup sooner) and again, can be noisy."



My amp has a crazy high headroom channel, so I can't speak on them not being as good for clean, because they are absolutely STUNNING for clean in this amp. The RCA BPs make my guitar 'sound the biggest'. Since my amp is basically a 60s Blackface and 50s tweed on the clean channel(s), they marry together extremely well with the 1950s tubes.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

Glad you found your holy grail of tone, GG08.
That’s wonderful!

It’s a great feeling when we find our own magic sauce for killer tones?

 

[just42dave]

Hell yea

 

[JackBootedThug]

Awesome sauce.

 

[shar-vell Dan]

This is a very good thread.

 

[101B /^/]

Not sure if they are ‘blackplates’ (see pic), but I’ve been using 2 different RCA 12AU7A’s in the clean channel of my xtc and they both sound fantastic.

The clear top sounds particularly good and tubey in a vintage (and somehow familiar) sort of way - kind of laid back but still punchy and sensitive to pick attack/technique. It’s a good tube b/c it definitely amplifies everything (in a good way) with zero noise. The reduced gain allows me to use the amps clean boost without going to the edge of breakup like most other tubes I’ve tried in the amp.

 

[Nigel]

I prefer Mullard long gray plates everywhere. Yes, each one sounds different. Got some RCA gray plates in a new amp, probably going to test and sell 'cause they aren't for me. Thinking about a blackplate for V3 to get the RCA clean/drive on the M channel 2 of my Rivera M60.

Which Rivera do you have?

 

[Music&Chaos]

I prefer Mullard long gray plates everywhere. Yes, each one sounds different. Got some RCA gray plates in a new amp, probably going to test and sell 'cause they aren't for me. Thinking about a blackplate for V3 to get the RCA clean/drive on the M channel 2 of my Rivera M60.

Which Rivera do you have?

Mullard long grays are really damn good sounding. I also prefer those over the RCA long greyplates. The Greys push that extra bass and treble,, scooping, or just leaving flat, the midrange. The RCA long blacks are more like a Euro tube except they keep the bass and treble along wth that thumping midrange.

I have RCA long blackplates stocked into 2 Riveras (One, I own and another is a friend's)

My Rivera is a Clubster Royale Recording Top 25W 6V6. I run that through a Panama 2x12 loaded with Avatar AV75 speakers.

My friend's is a Pubster 25 combo.

I play a lot of riff heavy/lead heavy rock. If I were only into primarily cleans in an American voiced amp, probably would go with a Sylvania every time. For gain - the blackplates just hold together so well.

For more fluid lead or more UK voiced amps - the Mullards win out basicaly every time.

A blackplate in V3 is probably going to work out very well at boosting everything that is already present in the chain.

 

[Nigel]

Mullard long grays are really damn good sounding. I also prefer those over the RCA long greyplates. The Greys push that extra bass and treble,, scooping, or just leaving flat, the midrange. The RCA long blacks are more like a Euro tube except they keep the bass and treble along wth that thumping midrange.

I have RCA long blackplates stocked into 2 Riveras (One, I own and another is a friend's)

My Rivera is a Clubster Royale Recording Top 25W 6V6. I run that through a Panama 2x12 loaded with Avatar AV75 speakers.

My friend's is a Pubster 25 combo.

I play a lot of riff heavy/lead heavy rock. If I were only into primarily cleans in an American voiced amp, probably would go with a Sylvania every time. For gain - the blackplates just hold together so well.

For more fluid lead or more UK voiced amps - the Mullards win out basicaly every time.

A blackplate in V3 is probably going to work out very well at boosting everything that is already present in the chain.

Sylvania blackplates are gnarly...huge sound, 2,400gm+ crazy gain too.

I recall Timbre Wolfe over on TGP saying something about blackplates...he turned me to the Dark Side™ (BLACKburn) years ago, where I met master Bob Gjika, and our shared love for f91/f91 late 50's Mullard longplates and JJ KT77's.

I'll have to try one. V3 in a M60 is the tone driver for the SL channel and gain for the M channel, I was mistaken. It's actually V1 that is the imput buffer and tone driver for Channel 2! Kinda wish the tubes were a bit more discreet so you could to tone/eq/gain for Fender style with RCA's and Marshall style with Mullards. THAT would be epic!

 

[Music&Chaos]

Sylvania blackplates are gnarly...huge sound, 2,400gm+ crazy gain too.

I recall Timbre Wolfe over on TGP saying something about blackplates...he turned me to the Dark Side™ (BLACKburn) years ago, where I met master Bob Gjika, and our shared love for f91/f91 late 50's Mullard longplates and JJ KT77's.

I'll have to try one. V3 in a M60 is the tone driver for the SL channel and gain for the M channel, I was mistaken. It's actually V1 that is the imput buffer and tone driver for Channel 2! Kinda wish the tubes were a bit more discreet so you could to tone/eq/gain for Fender style with RCA's and Marshall style with Mullards. THAT would be epic!


View attachment 417956

Ah, I tried finding this for my amp and was let down with what I could get figured out, even looking at a wiring schematic - Riveras can be intensely wired!!!

That would be so sweet man.... I tried doing the same mix!

Mine is probably similar to this layout, would explain the tonal results I was getting when making changes.

 

[Nigel]

Ah, I tried finding this for my amp and was let down with what I could get figured out, even looking at a wiring schematic - Riveras can be intensely wired!!!

That would be so sweet man.... I tried doing the same mix!

Mine is probably similar to this layout, would explain the tonal results I was getting when making changes.

Yeah it's why EVERY TUBE is critical to overall tone in a Rivera. V4 isn't just the Reverb driver, it's the MIXER!

 

[Music&Chaos]

Yeah it's why EVERY TUBE is critical to overall tone in a Rivera. V4 isn't just the Reverb driver, it's the MIXER!

That really does help explain it, thanks for sharing this!!