Saw This, and was wondering what the deal is?

[Les Zombie]

I wished the name mark cameron be forgotten and disappear, the guy is like a cancer that speads anywhere it goes.
I guess as long as people are owed amps and as long as brad is selling amps named cameron thats not gonna happen and we will still have to hear that stupid prick drug addicts name. And theres still people out there that would suck marks dick.
The whole situation just sucks, i dont care how good that amp sounds, if it says cameron on it i have no desire to own it, everything about it goes against my code.

 

[LP Freak]

I wished the name mark cameron be forgotten and disappear, the guy is like a cancer that speads anywhere it goes.
I guess as long as people are owed amps and as long as brad is selling amps named cameron thats not gonna happen and we will still have to hear that stupid prick drug addicts name. And theres still people out there that would suck marks dick.
The whole situation just sucks, i dont care how good that amp sounds, if it says cameron on it i have no desire to own it, everything about it goes against my code.

I agree that you do have some valid points but it's a shame you're letting a name get in the way of some great tone. Who cares...it's just an amp.

 

[TX6Strings]

I find it amusing that most of the guys that really got that thread rolling are guys that have been banned from RT or left voluntarily for whatever their reasons were.

 

[Les Zombie]

Brad must have had a idea what he was getting himself into wen he took on the cameron name, i dont think he was hardly doing it for charity, hes smart business minded person and felt the risk was worth the reward, he wouldnt have did it if he didnt think there was gonna be some decent money to be made.
So you gotta take the good with the bad, some people will love ya and some hate ya, hes out in the open now and im not shocked that people are making fun of him, it sucks for him to be made a fool of though.
But im sure he knew at some point there would be people who wasnt gonna like him and i doubt he cares anyway.

Who knows, maybe if brad knew now how the whole cameron thing was gonna work out he wouldnt have did it, maybe he isnt making as much as he figured. I would say he spend alot getting it up and running and even with the amps hes sold i dont think hes making a killing.

I figured there would be alot more amps sold by know and not just to you rigtalk guys, but Its gonna be hard to sell amps outside rigtalk when your accused of being a homosexual and your promoting the name of a drug addict thief.

But theres also the canadian guy issue that somebody mentioned onthe hcaf thread and about making the guy sell his only amp???.

 

[drewiv]

After reading that entire (stupid and mind-numbing) thread this was one of the more idiotic things written (quote below). Obviously, this is coming from someone that has never started or operated a business before in their life, or more likely, has never left their couch. Not to mention an old time (self-banned) RTer agreeing with the math, completely uninformed. I could also do without the personal attacks and homophobic banter that litter the thread, that's just not my style or something I care to deal with in my life. First and last thread I read on HC.

lets look at the math for a bit

cost to build=$1800 (estimated, but probably pretty accurate)
sale price=$3600
profit per amp=$1800

1800 x 25= $45000

$45K profit.

10 amps at cost would be $18K. if 10 people paid the $1K upcharge, that's $8K. i'm sure MC's cut is enough to get those 10 amps out, but only two have made it so far.

something's stinky.

 

[glip22]

I wished the name mark cameron be forgotten and disappear, the guy is like a cancer that speads anywhere it goes.
I guess as long as people are owed amps and as long as brad is selling amps named cameron thats not gonna happen and we will still have to hear that stupid prick drug addicts name. And theres still people out there that would suck marks dick.
The whole situation just sucks, i dont care how good that amp sounds, if it says cameron on it i have no desire to own it, everything about it goes against my code.

Funny you post this. Mark Cameron wishes this more than anybody. BTW, Hes not a drug addict. Believe what you wish. Mark has treated me with the utmost of respect since I have known him. I don't suck his dick or anybodys for that matter. I'm a standup guy who can cover his own back. Trust me. Its been proven. I'm not some pussy who hides behind a fake internet world and talks shit they have no idea about like most of those clowns over there. Its really nothing more than a guy who made some big mistakes. I am sure there are allot of people who have done things they are sorry about that hurt others. I know I have. Marks really no different. Its only because he makes great sounding amps that his mistakes have gained him so much publicity.The man is sorry for what he did and wishes it will be made right. It's not a continued practice of his. Don't forget he has been doing this for over twenty years. He and John Norum recorded John's album together and hes helped many others. If it wasn't for Mark you would not have allot of your favorite amp modders today.. He hit bad times and the shit happened. People were hurt financially because of it. In the scheme of things it wasn't that many. Move on.

 

[oldmanmetal]

I wished the name mark cameron be forgotten and disappear, the guy is like a cancer that speads anywhere it goes.
I guess as long as people are owed amps and as long as brad is selling amps named cameron thats not gonna happen and we will still have to hear that stupid prick drug addicts name. And theres still people out there that would suck marks dick.
The whole situation just sucks, i dont care how good that amp sounds, if it says cameron on it i have no desire to own it, everything about it goes against my code.

Funny you post this. Mark Cameron wishes this more than anybody. BTW, Hes not a drug addict. Believe what you wish. Mark has treated me with the utmost of respect since I have known him. I don't suck his dick or anybodys for that matter. I'm a standup guy who can cover his own back. Trust me. Its been proven. I'm not some pussy who hides behind a fake internet world and talks shit they have no idea about like most of those clowns over there. Its really nothing more than a guy who made some big mistakes. I am sure there are allot of people who have done things they are sorry about that hurt others. I know I have. Marks really no different. Its only because he makes great sounding amps that his mistakes have gained him so much publicity.The man is sorry for what he did and wishes it will be made right. It's not a continued practice of his. Don't forget he has been doing this for over twenty years. He and John Norum recorded John's album together and hes helped many others. If it wasn't for Mark you would not have allot of your favorite amp modders today.. He hit bad times and the shit happened. People were hurt financially because of it. In the scheme of things it wasn't that many. Move on.

Should the people who had their amps stolen, money taken move on too? The only thing NOT in question is Mark's integrity, ethics, and honestly his appearance is one of a serious drug addict. Don't know the man, but seen tons of addicts, and he sure as hell looks like one. It is not bad financial decisions, it is stealing, thievery. This is the one part of all this that has been established. As far as Brad goes, the others involved, personal things with them and the new company, I have no comments. Way too invvolved for me. I did not start this about Mark, we know his deal, just curious as to all the different things swirling about with the new company. Anybody who stands up for this guy, and says to move on and forget it is complicit in my book. That is seriously messed up.

 

[~Abstract~]

After reading that entire (stupid and mind-numbing) thread this was one of the more idiotic things written (quote below). Obviously, this is coming from someone that has never started or operated a business before in their life, or more likely, has never left their couch. Not to mention an old time (self-banned) RTer agreeing with the math, completely uninformed. I could also do without the personal attacks and homophobic banter that litter the thread, that's just not my style or something I care to deal with in my life. First and last thread I read on HC.

lets look at the math for a bit

cost to build=$1800 (estimated, but probably pretty accurate)
sale price=$3600
profit per amp=$1800

1800 x 25= $45000

$45K profit.

10 amps at cost would be $18K. if 10 people paid the $1K upcharge, that's $8K. i'm sure MC's cut is enough to get those 10 amps out, but only two have made it so far.

something's stinky.

Obviously.





No srsly.

 

[glip22]

I wished the name mark cameron be forgotten and disappear, the guy is like a cancer that speads anywhere it goes.
I guess as long as people are owed amps and as long as brad is selling amps named cameron thats not gonna happen and we will still have to hear that stupid prick drug addicts name. And theres still people out there that would suck marks dick.
The whole situation just sucks, i dont care how good that amp sounds, if it says cameron on it i have no desire to own it, everything about it goes against my code.

Funny you post this. Mark Cameron wishes this more than anybody. BTW, Hes not a drug addict. Believe what you wish. Mark has treated me with the utmost of respect since I have known him. I don't suck his dick or anybodys for that matter. I'm a standup guy who can cover his own back. Trust me. Its been proven. I'm not some pussy who hides behind a fake internet world and talks shit they have no idea about like most of those clowns over there. Its really nothing more than a guy who made some big mistakes. I am sure there are allot of people who have done things they are sorry about that hurt others. I know I have. Marks really no different. Its only because he makes great sounding amps that his mistakes have gained him so much publicity.The man is sorry for what he did and wishes it will be made right. It's not a continued practice of his. Don't forget he has been doing this for over twenty years. He and John Norum recorded John's album together and hes helped many others. If it wasn't for Mark you would not have allot of your favorite amp modders today.. He hit bad times and the shit happened. People were hurt financially because of it. In the scheme of things it wasn't that many. Move on.

Should the people who had their amps stolen, money taken move on too? The only thing NOT in question is Mark's integrity, ethics, and honestly his appearance is one of a serious drug addict. Don't know the man, but seen tons of addicts, and he sure as hell looks like one. It is not bad financial decisions, it is stealing, thievery. This is the one part of all this that has been established. As far as Brad goes, the others involved, personal things with them and the new company, I have no comments. Way too invvolved for me. I did not start this about Mark, we know his deal, just curious as to all the different things swirling about with the new company. Anybody who stands up for this guy, and says to move on and forget it is complicit in my book. That is seriously messed up.

What noone seems to realize is that Mark signed on with Brad to make ammends regardless that it did not work out. Brad is a good solid person and will make it right as he said he would in the beginning under the Cameron name. Mark paid with his name under an amp brand in order for this to happen. He designed and gave designs to the new Cameron Amplification which has value. A couple of guys were already made right. I don't know details. I did not say that guys who were hurt should just forget it. I apologize if that was inferred. I am saying that the guy is sorry he stole and wants it made right. His stealing was not premeditated and malicious. Brad is working on making these guys right. Mark Cameron is paying and has paid for this to happen. He doesn't do hard drugs. He suffers chronic depression and doesn't eat well as he struggles. What more do you want from him. He fucked up, is sorry he did so, and made efforts with Brad and Company to make it right whom I believe will do so. This thread started with the HC thread unfairly bashing Brad. There is allot of speculation about who is who and what is what. My two cents is much more realistic and based in actual happenings than anything else I have read thus far. I use the internet world and this forum as a little escape from everyday life. Along the way I have met some great people to talk gear and life with. Other than that I am no one other than to my friends and family.

 

[thegame]

It's not a continued practice of his.

Unfortunately, too many people would contest this statement.

 

[Les Zombie]

Is mark still working with brad or is that over??
And if its is indeed over why did brad end the relationship??

 

[Les Zombie]

Btw i hope that everything works out with the people who was ripped off, i feel bad for you guys and would love for brad to be the big hero and get everybody their amps even thought he isnt obligated to it.

 

[Anonymous]

i doubt anybody is jealous of somebody that owns a cameron, most people outside of RT dont care about owning a cameron and that has nothing to do with having enough money to buy one.
i have zero desire to own a cameron and i can buy any amp i want, im under the impression that its mostly rig talkers that buy camerons, i could be completely wrong with that statement too.

Read some of the attacks on Brad, it's all about money.

From the perspective of someone very familiar with that forum, Zombie is correct; very few people over there care about '80s bands or tones. And the relatively very few who attacked Brad (besides the RTers who started it) either talked about a negative situation that happened on a transaction with someone or fun (admittedly brutal) was being made of videos/pics, which surely came across as a bit strange when edited and posted with negative comments. Those few people would've posted similarly about similar vids/pics of nearly any HC poster. There were also some non-RTers who saw what was going on later in the thread, and it slowed down. Drama there, drama here.

Why would the Cameron amps only be associated with 80s bands and tones. They are capable of quite a bit more than that. So ridiculous...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

After reading that entire (stupid and mind-numbing) thread this was one of the more idiotic things written (quote below). Obviously, this is coming from someone that has never started or operated a business before in their life, or more likely, has never left their couch. Not to mention an old time (self-banned) RTer agreeing with the math, completely uninformed. I could also do without the personal attacks and homophobic banter that litter the thread, that's just not my style or something I care to deal with in my life. First and last thread I read on HC.

lets look at the math for a bit

cost to build=$1800 (estimated, but probably pretty accurate)
sale price=$3600
profit per amp=$1800

1800 x 25= $45000

$45K profit.

10 amps at cost would be $18K. if 10 people paid the $1K upcharge, that's $8K. i'm sure MC's cut is enough to get those 10 amps out, but only two have made it so far.

something's stinky.

knucklefux is the proprietor of Titan Amps. Small amp business, but the dude knows amps and the costs associated with building them. Based on my experience as well, I'd say he's pretty close on the cost to build a CCV. Might be a little higher due to labor costs to build it...

Where he is wrong is where he starts talking about profit per amp. He's not considering any of the R&D costs that have gone into the amp, including whatever "bailout" had to be paid to Mark so he could live and pay the back rent he owed, etc. The amp was changed since Mark's original design to add midi, I believe there were some attempts at layout changes per Mark, so there was for sure R&D there. Also, you have to keep some amps, cabs, etc around for demos, etc. - that costs money as well. Of course, to be a real business, you have to have a pro website designed, have professional pictures taken, etc., etc., etc...

I doubt there has been any profit on the CCVs yet. If there is, there hasn't been much, believe me... I am amazed that, given everything I know about what this shit costs to get going, Brad has been able to deliver ANY of the amps to the guys that got screwed, and I commend him on that...

I'm doing the same thing in terms of building a repeatable amp business. Now, of course, mine is done from scratch (no existing PCB design) with only a turret board prototype, but nonetheless, I'm sure there have been significant costs that knucklefux hasn't thought about. I can't believe how much everything costs to get going and I can't believe how many stupid mistakes you make along the way that cost you big time. My amp works now with some hardwiring I did and I love how it sounds, but I still can't build quantities of them yet, because some traces need to be re-routed and I need a whole new set of final (I hope!) boards run and boy does that cost - probably $2K total because I have to make one off prototypes, including parts, etc. Believe me this eats up profit quickly, as you are in the hole BIG time before you can even sell amp one. I also had to have a second prototype head case built, because I specified the first one too small in depth and the knobs go past the end of the cab... Doh... $300 bucks down the drain... Now I'm trying to get front and back metal panels made for the head cases and that is taking forever and will require expensive, one-off prototypes as did my chassis, etc., etc., etc... Now granted, once all prototypes are complete and you are making many amps, there are economies of scale that make the profit per amp better, but there are still all those up front costs.

I'm not complaining, because I really believe I've got something killer here and will be able to make some profit down the line, and truthfully, this isn't all about short term gain for me anyway. It is just something I really wanted to do and I have the money to fund the startup... Many people spout off about the price of "boutique" amps, but when you use great components and build only a few with high quality chassis, custom head cases, etc., the amount of profit isn't what people think...

Steve

 

[drewiv]

After reading that entire (stupid and mind-numbing) thread this was one of the more idiotic things written (quote below). Obviously, this is coming from someone that has never started or operated a business before in their life, or more likely, has never left their couch. Not to mention an old time (self-banned) RTer agreeing with the math, completely uninformed. I could also do without the personal attacks and homophobic banter that litter the thread, that's just not my style or something I care to deal with in my life. First and last thread I read on HC.

lets look at the math for a bit

cost to build=$1800 (estimated, but probably pretty accurate)
sale price=$3600
profit per amp=$1800

1800 x 25= $45000

$45K profit.

10 amps at cost would be $18K. if 10 people paid the $1K upcharge, that's $8K. i'm sure MC's cut is enough to get those 10 amps out, but only two have made it so far.

something's stinky.

knucklefux is the proprietor of Titan Amps. Small amp business, but the dude knows amps and the costs associated with building them. Based on my experience as well, I'd say he's pretty close on the cost to build a CCV. Might be a little higher due to labor costs to build it...

Where he is wrong is where he starts talking about profit per amp. He's not considering any of the R&D costs that have gone into the amp, including whatever "bailout" had to be paid to Mark so he could live and pay the back rent he owed, etc. The amp was changed since Mark's original design to add midi, I believe there were some attempts at layout changes per Mark, so there was for sure R&D there. Also, you have to keep some amps, cabs, etc around for demos, etc. - that costs money as well. Of course, to be a real business, you have to have a pro website designed, have professional pictures taken, etc., etc., etc...

I doubt there has been any profit on the CCVs yet. If there is, there hasn't been much, believe me... I am amazed that, given everything I know about what this shit costs to get going, Brad has been able to deliver ANY of the amps to the guys that got screwed, and I commend him on that...

I'm doing the same thing in terms of building a repeatable amp business. Now, of course, mine is done from scratch (no existing PCB design) with only a turret board prototype, but nonetheless, I'm sure there have been significant costs that knucklefux hasn't thought about. I can't believe how much everything costs to get going and I can't believe how many stupid mistakes you make along the way that cost you big time. My amp works now with some hardwiring I did and I love how it sounds, but I still can't build quantities of them yet, because some traces need to be re-routed and I need a whole new set of final (I hope!) boards run and boy does that cost - probably $2K total because I have to make one off prototypes, including parts, etc. Believe me this eats up profit quickly, as you are in the hole BIG time before you can even sell amp one. I also had to have a second prototype head case built, because I specified the first one too small in depth and the knobs go past the end of the cab... Doh... $300 bucks down the drain... Now I'm trying to get front and back metal panels made for the head cases and that is taking forever and will require expensive, one-off prototypes as did my chassis, etc., etc., etc... Now granted, once all prototypes are complete and you are making many amps, there are economies of scale that make the profit per amp better, but there are still all those up front costs.

I'm not complaining, because I really believe I've got something killer here and will be able to make some profit down the line, and truthfully, this isn't all about short term gain for me anyway. It is just something I really wanted to do and I have the money to fund the startup... Many people spout off about the price of "boutique" amps, but when you use great components and build only a few with high quality chassis, custom head cases, etc., the amount of profit isn't what people think...

Steve

Well, I apologize for talking out of my ass. I guess the point I was (poorly) trying to get across is that I too doubt there are any profits going on with Cameron Amplification quite yet. I don't know, it's none of my business, but I do know the costs associated with running (and starting) a business. I do know the costs associated with building an amp (direct costs) is not the end of expenses. If Gross Profit = Net Profit, I'd be a happy guy. If it were that easy to make a company turn a 100% profit in a year, everyone would do it.

 

[Anonymous]

After reading that entire (stupid and mind-numbing) thread this was one of the more idiotic things written (quote below). Obviously, this is coming from someone that has never started or operated a business before in their life, or more likely, has never left their couch. Not to mention an old time (self-banned) RTer agreeing with the math, completely uninformed. I could also do without the personal attacks and homophobic banter that litter the thread, that's just not my style or something I care to deal with in my life. First and last thread I read on HC.

lets look at the math for a bit

cost to build=$1800 (estimated, but probably pretty accurate)
sale price=$3600
profit per amp=$1800

1800 x 25= $45000

$45K profit.

10 amps at cost would be $18K. if 10 people paid the $1K upcharge, that's $8K. i'm sure MC's cut is enough to get those 10 amps out, but only two have made it so far.

something's stinky.

knucklefux is the proprietor of Titan Amps. Small amp business, but the dude knows amps and the costs associated with building them. Based on my experience as well, I'd say he's pretty close on the cost to build a CCV. Might be a little higher due to labor costs to build it...

Where he is wrong is where he starts talking about profit per amp. He's not considering any of the R&D costs that have gone into the amp, including whatever "bailout" had to be paid to Mark so he could live and pay the back rent he owed, etc. The amp was changed since Mark's original design to add midi, I believe there were some attempts at layout changes per Mark, so there was for sure R&D there. Also, you have to keep some amps, cabs, etc around for demos, etc. - that costs money as well. Of course, to be a real business, you have to have a pro website designed, have professional pictures taken, etc., etc., etc...

I doubt there has been any profit on the CCVs yet. If there is, there hasn't been much, believe me... I am amazed that, given everything I know about what this shit costs to get going, Brad has been able to deliver ANY of the amps to the guys that got screwed, and I commend him on that...

I'm doing the same thing in terms of building a repeatable amp business. Now, of course, mine is done from scratch (no existing PCB design) with only a turret board prototype, but nonetheless, I'm sure there have been significant costs that knucklefux hasn't thought about. I can't believe how much everything costs to get going and I can't believe how many stupid mistakes you make along the way that cost you big time. My amp works now with some hardwiring I did and I love how it sounds, but I still can't build quantities of them yet, because some traces need to be re-routed and I need a whole new set of final (I hope!) boards run and boy does that cost - probably $2K total because I have to make one off prototypes, including parts, etc. Believe me this eats up profit quickly, as you are in the hole BIG time before you can even sell amp one. I also had to have a second prototype head case built, because I specified the first one too small in depth and the knobs go past the end of the cab... Doh... $300 bucks down the drain... Now I'm trying to get front and back metal panels made for the head cases and that is taking forever and will require expensive, one-off prototypes as did my chassis, etc., etc., etc... Now granted, once all prototypes are complete and you are making many amps, there are economies of scale that make the profit per amp better, but there are still all those up front costs.

I'm not complaining, because I really believe I've got something killer here and will be able to make some profit down the line, and truthfully, this isn't all about short term gain for me anyway. It is just something I really wanted to do and I have the money to fund the startup... Many people spout off about the price of "boutique" amps, but when you use great components and build only a few with high quality chassis, custom head cases, etc., the amount of profit isn't what people think...

Steve

Well, I apologize for talking out of my ass. I guess the point I was (poorly) trying to get across is that I too doubt there are any profits going on with Cameron Amplification quite yet. I don't know, it's none of my business, but I do know the costs associated with running (and starting) a business. I do know the costs associated with building an amp (direct costs) is not the end of expenses. If Gross Profit = Net Profit, I'd be a happy guy. If it were that easy to make a company turn a 100% profit in a year, everyone would do it.

Oh, hey man - I wasn't calling you out in any way, shape or form. Frankly, you are 100% right. I was just clarifying who the guy was and what he knows, while supporting your point...

BTW - did I sell you the guitar in your avatar? Can't remember...

Steve

 

[rlord1974]

i doubt anybody is jealous of somebody that owns a cameron, most people outside of RT dont care about owning a cameron and that has nothing to do with having enough money to buy one.
i have zero desire to own a cameron and i can buy any amp i want, im under the impression that its mostly rig talkers that buy camerons, i could be completely wrong with that statement too.

Read some of the attacks on Brad, it's all about money.

From the perspective of someone very familiar with that forum, Zombie is correct; very few people over there care about '80s bands or tones. And the relatively very few who attacked Brad (besides the RTers who started it) either talked about a negative situation that happened on a transaction with someone or fun (admittedly brutal) was being made of videos/pics, which surely came across as a bit strange when edited and posted with negative comments. Those few people would've posted similarly about similar vids/pics of nearly any HC poster. There were also some non-RTers who saw what was going on later in the thread, and it slowed down. Drama there, drama here.

Why would the Cameron amps only be associated with 80s bands and tones. They are capable of quite a bit more than that. So ridiculous...

Steve

So ^this^ Steve!

I just was playing with my CCV yesterday and dialed in some KILLER crystal clean tones and mid-gain raunch a la AC/DC or, from a more contemporary viewpoint, a la QOTSA, etc.

The CCV is CRAZY versatile. Yeah, it does the 80's modded thing amazingly well, but it does a HELL of a lot more than that. It just goes to show that the ^%$#@ posting their "reviews" on the CCV over on HCAF have never played through one. They are likely basing their "reviews" on internet clips of an amp at bedroom volumes being recorded through a handheld recorder buried under a couch cushion.

 

[steve_k]

It's all the same old shit, over and over. Except, the personal attacks against Brad are pretty damn nasty and I don't care to see that toward anyone. I wouldn't take that shit off any little prick on a keyboard. People are very easy to find these days.

 

[thiswaythatway]

i doubt anybody is jealous of somebody that owns a cameron, most people outside of RT dont care about owning a cameron and that has nothing to do with having enough money to buy one.
i have zero desire to own a cameron and i can buy any amp i want, im under the impression that its mostly rig talkers that buy camerons, i could be completely wrong with that statement too.

Read some of the attacks on Brad, it's all about money.

From the perspective of someone very familiar with that forum, Zombie is correct; very few people over there care about '80s bands or tones. And the relatively very few who attacked Brad (besides the RTers who started it) either talked about a negative situation that happened on a transaction with someone or fun (admittedly brutal) was being made of videos/pics, which surely came across as a bit strange when edited and posted with negative comments. Those few people would've posted similarly about similar vids/pics of nearly any HC poster. There were also some non-RTers who saw what was going on later in the thread, and it slowed down. Drama there, drama here.

Nothing against you personally but I find the whole us versus them mentality pretty funny. According to everyone here on Rig-Talk, HCAF is a toilet full of off topic nonsense and everyone is 22 years old and into Lamb Of God. According to HCAF everyone here is in their late 40's and buying $3k Friedman's and Cameron to get their mid life crisis VH fix.

But each forums "brothers" have to stick together right.

 

[Anonymous]

i doubt anybody is jealous of somebody that owns a cameron, most people outside of RT dont care about owning a cameron and that has nothing to do with having enough money to buy one.
i have zero desire to own a cameron and i can buy any amp i want, im under the impression that its mostly rig talkers that buy camerons, i could be completely wrong with that statement too.

Read some of the attacks on Brad, it's all about money.

From the perspective of someone very familiar with that forum, Zombie is correct; very few people over there care about '80s bands or tones. And the relatively very few who attacked Brad (besides the RTers who started it) either talked about a negative situation that happened on a transaction with someone or fun (admittedly brutal) was being made of videos/pics, which surely came across as a bit strange when edited and posted with negative comments. Those few people would've posted similarly about similar vids/pics of nearly any HC poster. There were also some non-RTers who saw what was going on later in the thread, and it slowed down. Drama there, drama here.

Nothing against you personally but I find the whole us versus them mentality pretty funny. According to everyone here on Rig-Talk, HCAF is a toilet full of off topic nonsense and everyone is 22 years old and into Lamb Of God. According to HCAF everyone here is in their late 40's and buying $3k Friedman's and Cameron to get their mid life crisis VH fix.

But each forums "brothers" have to stick together right.

I actually enjoy both forums personally, but the truth is that the stereotypes you illustrated in your post are somewhat accurate.

Steve