Schenker's place in the guitar god hierarchy

Kapo_Polenton

Well-known member
We all know Ed's stamp on the late 70's is unique and just about cements him at the top as game changer lead guitar players go BUT if we take his variac and throw it on Schenker's rig here in 1975, how are we not giving Michael way more credit for his influence on people and his ability to absolutely rip? He's playing with less gain here and working for every note but he's unbelievable. Ed added the tapping to mainstream ( even though it had been done before) and he had the gain. They also had the songs and DLR. But UFO was no slouch song wise either. I honestly have Schenker up there with Ed. What do you guys think?


 

jabps

Well-known member
Not to sound like a dick but they just never did anything for me. However-I have never given them a real listen if that makes sense?
Agreed. VH was accessible to most everyone, not to mention they were like a bomb going off when VH1 dropped.

UFO was an acquired taste that frankly I never really acquired. I tried because of MS. That said, Schenker aside there were much better bands during that era "to me" ala Thin Lizzy. UFO just never held my interest and really it started with the songs, I never really thought they were that strong. IMO only.
 

Racerxrated

Well-known member
EVH is the #1 rock player of all time. Everything about his playing, songwriting and musicianship was top level. No one inspired more to pick up and learn the instrument. #2 would have to be Hendrix. Then, it gets debatable.
MS is a fantastic effortlessly smooth player with great recognizable vibrato; deserves a spot in the top 10 but isn’t on the same level as EVH.
Sorry.
 

Kapo_Polenton

Well-known member
Interesting points of view here. I look at Phil Mogg and the dude has the swagger, the presence, and a great voice. He's almost like a Bon Scott sort of guy up there with the ball busting jeans and confidence.

As for the playing and song writing, I feel VH has the edge as well as the sound but for me it is really only the DLR era stuff. That's when EVH played his best. After that, it doesn't have the same excitement in my opinion. Overall I agree with one of the comments here. I love early EVH but for my money, I actually watch and listen to Schenker more. This clip I posted was 75. Go back and watch him in 76 , then into the 1980's. He just kept getting better and better at his craft where EVH (hate to say it) didn't go any further. He rehashed more. That said, the Hagar stuff for me was more about the songs so that's cool too but he wasn't turning my head much anymore after that. Schenker however, has continued to inspire my ears and live across decades. I find that interesting. I have him in my top 5 for sure.
 

Kapo_Polenton

Well-known member
Yes, he’s one of the few players who has gotten unarguably better as he has aged. This performance is just unreal for nailing it live:


That's what I factor in as well. He had a rough stretch blitzed out of his mind but sober he has kept getting better.
 
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Greazygeo

Well-known member
I like MSG better than UFO. That said EVH really never did anything for me. VH has some songs and albums that are cool, but his soloing just sounds like nonsense most of the time.
Schenker is more melodic and interesting to me. He just never had the “flash” of an EVH.
EVH did have quite an affect on gear etc. Schenker I guess popularized the cocked wah thing?
I would say EVH will always be more popular.
 

Kapo_Polenton

Well-known member
I like MSG better than UFO. That said EVH really never did anything for me. VH has some songs and albums that are cool, but his soloing just sounds like nonsense most of the time.
Schenker is more melodic and interesting to me. He just never had the “flash” of an EVH.
EVH did have quite an affect on gear etc. Schenker I guess popularized the cocked wah thing?
I would say EVH will always be more popular.

The cocked wah thing is really interesting because it sort of fades out by early 80's. Most notably I think Slash sort of brought it back on AFD. there are parts where I feel like he totally rolled the tone back and found the sweet spot of the wah. Most notably, sweet Child O Mine. You try that intro riff on alnico II's with the tone rolled back and wah cocked and it feels like "that" tone. I know the modded marshalls played a part in hyping the highs but give that a go and tell me what you hear.
 

jabps

Well-known member
Sorry but Hendrix is definitely way above EVH (and Schenker BTW). In the same realm as Coltrane, Miles Davis, Stevie Wonder, Bob Marley etc. Bonafide timeless geniuses.
Uhh...I have them at 1A and 1B.

And I don't see how you could put Jimi in the musical genius category and not put Ed in there as well. Both were game changers upon arrival, both influenced well established peers at the time and all those that followed.

In many ways they are exactly alike in their influence and impact on music and guitar playing.
 

gtrwun

Well-known member
Me personally, I always liked Schenker more than VH. I put Holdsworth miles ahead of both.

If your talking about the music the bands made, different conversation.
UFO requires a little more thought and patience to really appreciate than VH. VH was simple straight forward easily digestible party rock.

UFO had very “heady” lyrics and some of the music takes multiple listens to fully grasp and appreciate. The vocal melodies are way more interesting than anything happening in any VH tune.
 

Speeddemon

Well-known member
Both were game changers upon arrival
But Hendrix way more than EVH.

Before Hendrix, 'rock' music wasn't as evolved or established. Hendrix put a huge stamp on it. Think of it; how did most bands sound in '66 vs. '69/70?
But if you look at VH1 in '78, (hard)rock was already well underway. Of course EVH *did* influence whole slew of guitarists, but I think, while EVH is IMO definitely #2 as a (rock)guitarplayer gamechanger, his influence on steering the overall music and genre wasn't as profound as that of Hendrix.

Now, back on topic when it comes to Schenker; a great player sure, awesome phrasing and idiosyncracies that aren't mere racing down the fretboard and noodling.
There's a specific part in one of his solo's in the album version of Lights Out, where I can completely pinpoint his influence on Mercyful Fate.

Listen here around 2m11s (when the modulation happens:)


And then compare it to the intro solo of Mercyful Fate's "Corpse without a soul" around 0m12s:

Funnily enough, both in the key of C#, and both feature that natural minor line (C#, D#, E) with very similar phrasing, that almost suggests it's a phrygian line.
 

Kapo_Polenton

Well-known member
But Hendrix way more than EVH.

Before Hendrix, 'rock' music wasn't as evolved or established. Hendrix put a huge stamp on it. Think of it; how did most bands sound in '66 vs. '69/70?
But if you look at VH1 in '78, (hard)rock was already well underway. Of course EVH *did* influence whole slew of guitarists, but I think, while EVH is IMO definitely #2 as a (rock)guitarplayer gamechanger, his influence on steering the overall music and genre wasn't as profound as that of Hendrix.

Now, back on topic when it comes to Schenker; a great player sure, awesome phrasing and idiosyncracies that aren't mere racing down the fretboard and noodling.
There's a specific part in one of his solo's in the album version of Lights Out, where I can completely pinpoint his influence on Mercyful Fate.

Listen here around 2m11s (when the modulation happens:)


And then compare it to the intro solo of Mercyful Fate's "Corpse without a soul" around 0m12s:

Funnily enough, both in the key of C#, and both feature that natural minor line (C#, D#, E) with very similar phrasing, that almost suggests it's a phrygian line.

Good ear and it is sort of in that pentatonic box when you add minor notes but there is zero doubt he had an influence on a lot of people. I guess this convo opens up the rabbit hole a bit because you could throw a bunch of guys before EVH just like Hendrix but also guys like Uli roth then. I guess what this sort of makes me think about is, give a few of those earlier players more gain or VH1 levels of gain and how much more would they have blistered across the fretboard? So the statement that many people have made about EVH's gear contribution is almost as important as were his chops. He sort of redefined the rig.

 

RaceU4her

Well-known member
We all know Ed's stamp on the late 70's is unique and just about cements him at the top as game changer lead guitar players go BUT if we take his variac and throw it on Schenker's rig here in 1975, how are we not giving Michael way more credit for his influence on people and his ability to absolutely rip? He's playing with less gain here and working for every note but he's unbelievable. Ed added the tapping to mainstream ( even though it had been done before) and he had the gain. They also had the songs and DLR. But UFO was no slouch song wise either. I honestly have Schenker up there with Ed. What do you guys think?




that solo hurt my ears :dunno:
 
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