Sell your mark IIC+: the black album was a mark 3.

JimAnsell

Well-known member
Does everyone get Mike B to service their amps? Cause there's other guys that work there you know? I got a guy named Rich Duvall working on my Mark IVb right now at Mesa Boogie. I've sent 3 Boogies in for servicing and I don't think Mike B serviced any of them, but they all turned out great.
Mike is the head tech, but that doesn't mean he works on every amp he diagnoses or talks with you about. i don't work there, and i'm not 100% on this, but he has to have minions like any other boss man. There is no way a company like that would only have a mike and rich working on amps.
 

VESmedic

Well-known member
Hi guys,

I’d like to come back to the video with Bob Rock of the OP.

1/ At 22 min and 19 seconds, Bob talks about the placement of the U87. He says : « That’s about three or four hundred cycles ». What does this mean exactly ?

2/ At 23 min, Bob talks about the sizzle of the Boogies and says : « it went away … » and then I don’t understand the next words (I’m so sorry, English is not my native tongue).

Thank you very much for your help.



1. Cycles is the term they used to use for hz. For instance if you look at old pultec eq’s, you’ll see on the low end knob it has selectable ranges from 20 “cycles”(cps) up to 100 “cycles”… we call this hz today. On that note, bob is referring to the frequency/hz/cycles range in which that resonance in James’s guitar tone was prominent that they were trying to capture. In this case, bob thought it was around 3-400 “cycles” or hz… same thing :)

2. He’s saying that you can “hear alittle bit of room in there”, meaning the sound of the room mic. He’s explaining how adding that room mic in there, it takes away some of the harshness and nastiness in the high end. Basically what he’s referring to is phase cancellation from the u87 in relation to the close mics on the cab (57 and 421) and how adding the u87 helped smooth out the top end.
 
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anomaly

Well-known member
1. Cycles is the term they used to use for hz. For instance if you look at old pultec eq’s, you’ll see on the low end knob it has selectable ranges from 20 “cycles”(cps) up to 100 “cycles”… we call this hz today. On that note, bob is referring to the frequency/hz/cycles range in which that resonance in James’s guitar tone was prominent that they were trying to capture. In this case, bob thought it was around 3-400 “cycles” or hz… same thing :)

2. He’s saying that you can “hear alittle bit of room in there”, meaning the sound of the room mic. He’s explaining how adding that room mic in there, it takes away some of the harshness and nastiness in the high end. Basically what he’s referring to is phase cancellation from the u87 in relation to the close mics on the cab (57 and 421) and how adding the u87 helped smooth out the top end.
You don't like Mesa Marks but you like the generic sound of 5150's OK then...
 

anomaly

Well-known member
Mike is the head tech, but that doesn't mean he works on every amp he diagnoses or talks with you about. i don't work there, and i'm not 100% on this, but he has to have minions like any other boss man. There is no way a company like that would only have a mike and rich working on amps.
Actually, i found out that it was Mike B that ended up working on my Mark IV. It was so badly damaged that he had to do it... caps leaked everywhere and caused a short. He made the amp like new again thankfully. Rich is just the telephone dude, not a tech. But ya, i'm sure they have many techs working on amps in there.
 

NineShallDie

Active member
I know this topic has been beaten to death, but as this thread is bumped again, I’ll post this pic from the September ’91 issue of Young Guitar Magazine. It’s about the gear used to record TBA and it clearly shows the IIC++ amp.
This was posted by a Japanese dude in a Facebook group along with his translation. His English isn’t great so the translation is a bit off, but you’ll get the idea.

“He tried various amps, but in the end he settled on the same boogie Mark II "Simul Class" as before. "It's actually Kirks, but I've been using it all the time. It's my thing right now (laughs) "The equalizers are ADA and APHEX. Multi-effects are "SE -50" from ADA and BOSS. For clean sound, Boogie's studio preamp, Boogie's power amplifier "STRATEGY 400" (⑦), and Roland's JC -120 (18) are set. These amps and effects are controlled by Bradshaw MIDI system. In addition to this, he also used Fender's Twin Reverb and Supro's amps for recording. The speaker cabinets are Boogie and Marshall "1960 Vintage" (⑩9). "Boogie has a sharp sound, and Marshall has a warmer deep bass.”

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Tone Monster

Well-known member
I know this topic has been beaten to death, but as this thread is bumped again, I’ll post this pic from the September ’91 issue of Young Guitar Magazine. It’s about the gear used to record TBA and it clearly shows the IIC++ amp.
This was posted by a Japanese dude in a Facebook group along with his translation. His English isn’t great so the translation is a bit off, but you’ll get the idea.

“He tried various amps, but in the end he settled on the same boogie Mark II "Simul Class" as before. "It's actually Kirks, but I've been using it all the time. It's my thing right now (laughs) "The equalizers are ADA and APHEX. Multi-effects are "SE -50" from ADA and BOSS. For clean sound, Boogie's studio preamp, Boogie's power amplifier "STRATEGY 400" (⑦), and Roland's JC -120 (18) are set. These amps and effects are controlled by Bradshaw MIDI system. In addition to this, he also used Fender's Twin Reverb and Supro's amps for recording. The speaker cabinets are Boogie and Marshall "1960 Vintage" (⑩9). "Boogie has a sharp sound, and Marshall has a warmer deep bass.”

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100%. Everyone knows he used a IIC++. Bob is just getting old and forgot. That said, with all the mics, speakers, mic pres, eqs etc. all that stuff has waaaaaay more impact on the final tone than any single amp.
 

Techdeth

Well-known member
Actually, i found out that it was Mike B that ended up working on my Mark IV. It was so badly damaged that he had to do it... caps leaked everywhere and caused a short. He made the amp like new again thankfully. Rich is just the telephone dude, not a tech. But ya, i'm sure they have many techs working on amps in there.
Mike B had to do the same work on my MarkIII . Then he added the ++ mod . He was great to work with band that was this year . I had the caps problem too
 

VESmedic

Well-known member
You don't like Mesa Marks but you like the generic sound of 5150's OK then...


Where did I say I don’t like the mark series amps? However, yes I would take a 5150 style amp over a mark series almost everytime, same with rectos.


Also, what the hell does this comment have to do with my response to what this guy asked about? Go troll somewhere else.
 

VESmedic

Well-known member
100%. Everyone knows he used a IIC++. Bob is just getting old and forgot. That said, with all the mics, speakers, mic pres, eqs etc. all that stuff has waaaaaay more impact on the final tone than any single amp.


So he forgot the amp…. Yet knows every other detail of the recording process, including how the u87 was placed, where resonances were in James’s tone etc… super intricate details like that from 30 years ago, but forgot the amp…. Makes total sense guys.
 

NineShallDie

Active member
So he forgot the amp…. Yet knows every other detail of the recording process, including how the u87 was placed, where resonances were in James’s tone etc… super intricate details like that from 30 years ago, but forgot the amp…. Makes total sense guys.
What’s to say that all those details are correct though?
 

NineShallDie

Active member
100%. Everyone knows he used a IIC++. Bob is just getting old and forgot. That said, with all the mics, speakers, mic pres, eqs etc. all that stuff has waaaaaay more impact on the final tone than any single amp.
Definitely! And I don’t think people realize how much of an impact those Aphex EQs have on the tone. And how much you can alter the tone with just some knob turning. Especially with two of them.
 

VESmedic

Well-known member
What’s to say that all those details are correct though?


That’s a fair point I guess as well. I do still find this absolutely hillarious though, a bunch of guys who have never been in a studio or know anything about recording trying to say bob rock just…. “Forgot”. Especially in the interview when Dave Friedman called him out and he said multiple times, no it was a 3. And I don’t mean anyone specifically here, I just mean on the internet in general, it’s quite hillarious.


There were tons of amps there. Larry amps, VHT, Marshall, multiple boogies etc. yet bob never said anything about those other amps that he could have “misremembered” were used.
 

VESmedic

Well-known member
Also I think everyone forgets that Staub was the assistant engineer, he’s much more easy to get in touch with for those that have free time and are dead set on defending the most overrated amp in existence. Id be curious to talk to staub about it.
 

NineShallDie

Active member
That’s a fair point I guess as well. I do still find this absolutely hillarious though, a bunch of guys who have never been in a studio or know anything about recording trying to say bob rock just…. “Forgot”. Especially in the interview when Dave Friedman called him out and he said multiple times, no it was a 3. And I don’t mean anyone specifically here, I just mean on the internet in general, it’s quite hillarious.


There were tons of amps there. Larry amps, VHT, Marshall, multiple boogies etc. yet bob never said anything about those other amps that he could have “misremembered” were used.
Also, I’m not saying Bob is a senile old man that doesn’t remember anything. It could very well be that he thought it was a Mark III. Couldn’t be easy to know all the details about these various Mark amps back in the day, without an easy click on the internet.
Metallica themselves didn’t fully grasp the ++ mod until fairly recently according to Mike B.
 

PurityS.L.G

Well-known member
I think it’s so funny how much collectors get so riled up with shit like this. Car collectors are probably the worst though IMO 🤣

With that said, other than the rarity of these things, I don’t get hype at all. Awesome amps for sure but nothing that made me precum in my jeans. In fact I like the JPIIC better. That’s just my opinion, I know. I guess my point is people seem to praise the rarest of the rare only for that reason so they can get their praise and kudos they thirst for. Take Dumble for example…
 

Beyond Black

Well-known member
How is the 5150 sound generic exactly? It is what many many amps try to emulate....so therefore you should call THOSE other amps generic.
Exactly. While I definitely prefer Marks, 5150’s are killer amps, and to call them generic is absolutely ridiculous.
 

GJgo

Well-known member
Exactly. While I definitely prefer Marks, 5150’s are killer amps, and to call them generic is absolutely ridiculous.
I'd like to take a stab at clarifying what some guys are saying here.

When I hear bands using 5150s, or recording with them, I often hear really great tones. Especially recorded tones- I think they excel there.

When I play a 5150 I can usually get pretty good tones and the amp has a fairly decent feel. However, the experience lacks the "it" factor that would give me any sort of emotional attachment to the amp. I could take it or leave it, and if I was looking for playing pleasure I'd plug into something else. If it fell off the back of the truck I wouldn't really care.

The 5150 is the Glock of the amp world.
 

VESmedic

Well-known member
I think it’s so funny how much collectors get so riled up with shit like this. Car collectors are probably the worst though IMO 🤣

With that said, other than the rarity of these things, I don’t get hype at all. Awesome amps for sure but nothing that made me precum in my jeans. In fact I like the JPIIC better. That’s just my opinion, I know. I guess my point is people seem to praise the rarest of the rare only for that reason so they can get their praise and kudos they thirst for. Take Dumble for example…



Exactly, see you get it. Especially the “ rarest of the rare”…. It’s all complete and utter horseshit, and these guys get unreal butthurt, and defend their 10,000 dollar purchase to the max… but god forbid you challenge them on it and say something TRUE, like this;

*NO ONE HAS EVER USED THAT FUCKING AMP ON A MODERN METAL RECORD IN THE LASY 30 + YEARS, IF EVER BY ITSELF*



That one really strikes a nerve with people. But it’s completely and 100 percent true. But somehow, it’s the best amp ever because of the allure and internet folklore of it… yet no one uses/used it, for sure by itself even. It’s all just complete horseshit. Put the SLO in this same category as well.

I’m worried about tone, and amps that sound great under a mic: not mystique and bullshit d justifying a purchase…. I lusted after an SLO for years and years as a kid looking at musicians friend magazine thinking OMGZ it’s the best amp Everz I have to have onez! I couldn’t sell that thing fast enough after I got it. Stop the internet BS on these things, it’s just laughable at this point some of you.
 

BSRIAudio

Active member
Mesa was playing fast and loose with cosmetic features and faceplates in those transitional eras so you cant really look at a grainy picture of an amp and say definitively what the amp in the picture is. That could be a IIC+ or it could easily be a medium chassis III using a leftover faceplate just to get the amp out to a big name client before they had the updated cosmetic stuff.
 
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