Should a music producer be involved in the writing process?

[CaseyCor]

I have always wanted to be a Music Producer, and own my own studio. The idea of having a creative outlet for myself via my own music as well as working with other bands in my own studio has always been a dream of mine. The idea I've had over the years has always involved me as a producer getting involved with the compositional phase of the album as well as the recording/engineering. It seems to me that most producers add small comments to the material (hold this note longer, maybe a harmony here..), but some go beyond this idea.

So, what do you think a producers roll is exactly?

I'll finish this post when I get home, have to log off right now.

 

[K Odell]

I think in some instances a producer can turn a good band into a great band. It really depends on the producer. Production to me means taking the songs and pushing them to that next level of greatness ya know?

 

[nbarts]

Producer has nothing to do with recording/engineering for the most part, other than choosing the right engineer at times. Think of a producer as a marketing manager. His involvement in the writing process is polishing the product for the market, it may involve cutting parts out of a song, cutting instruments out, ditching songs out of an album, changing lyrics, etc etc, including steering an artist to a direction before songs are written. It can be at times very tough for artists, but it's the right way of doing it if you wanna sell.

 

[Meathead]

Producer has nothing to do with recording/engineering for the most part, other than choosing the right engineer at times. Think of a producer as a marketing manager. His involvement in the writing process is polishing the product for the market, it may involve cutting parts out of a song, cutting instruments out, ditching songs out of an album, changing lyrics, etc etc, including steering an artist to a direction before songs are written. It can be at times very tough for artists, but it's the right way of doing it if you wanna sell.

Yup...a good producer will rip the songs apart and only leave the hooks, then add hooks where needed.
Guys like Mutt Lang and Bob Ezrin are very hands on and created many classic platinum selling albums. The bands they produced (Alice Cooper, Aerosmith, Kiss, Pink Floyd, Bryan Adams, Foreigner, Shania Twain, AC/DC, Def Leppard, The Cars...) couldn't have done these great albums on their own.

 

[Dallas Marlow]

This is a really hard question to answer in a short response.

I depends on what level your at, but I think it's VERY important for the producer to know how to record and know recording techniques just as good if not better than the engineers that may work under him/her.

At a more indi level you see a lot of producers who are also playing the engineer role, but it's really one of those things where it's great to have cross training. You NEED to know how to record well to produce well, and you also NEED to know how to produce to really make sure your getting the recording sounds you want. Now that doesn't mean there aren't going to be people with one way better than the other and vice versa, but a GREAT producer is going to know how to get your vocals to sound right, how to get the most out of your songs and how to get great tones and mixes, even though they may have an engineer working the stuff for them while they direct the situation.

Sorry I guess that got off topic from the original question. Whether or not a producer gets writing credits really depends on what they are doing and what the deal is when you go in with them, usually producers get a set amount of points in general for their cut, however if they are in there and lets say you have a producer who writes a KILLER guitar hook, or changes your vocal melody and a few words to get the most out of your song didn't they just help WRITE the music? The reality is your paying for that trained in one way or another, whether it's up front or on the royalties side of thing. Some people go by that saying, write a word get a third, I think thats a bit extreme but you get the general idea. As long a the producer is happy with the deal prearranged then its all good.

A couple things to remember when dealing with this stuff, generally try and get it worked out upfront even if someone says we'll do it on the back end, or they don't want anything, NO don't listen!!! Trust me from personal experience, I don't care how well you know them, how good of a friend or family they are, when the end of it comes and you have a product and people see that there is potential these things can change... and also a lot of times people don't realize the amount of work they are agreeing to commit to and end up doing a lot and then feel like they got stiffed even though they agreed to something early on. Do it up front!!!! Get it in writing and be done with it so you no longer have to worry about and theres no issues at the end of the day. Also remember when someone wants a cut of something if its going to elevate your band to that next level it's a sacrifice your going to have to make early, keeping 100% of nothing is still nothing, getting 50% of a few 100k aint so bad.

Hope this helps answer your question.

Dallas

 

[bunghole]

if you're george martin - yes

otherwise - nah

 

[bravedude2]

i was gonna mention mutt lange. then i read further. then i thought george martin..damn i really need to read the full posting before i write something down.

 

[Audioholic]

i think a producer can take on many hats, depending on thier expertise, experience and niche and just when and who they are producing. I see no reason why a good producer with engineering chops and skill certainly won't make recording and gear calls during the studio. I don't see a producer really too involved in the song writing process, that should of been done at least a good amount in advance, but rather, taking a fresh look as an outsider once a song has been written or well sketched out, and offering ways that may improve it, or at least input a different creative idea as far as how to pull it off, or the structure. A producer may take on administrative and organizational tasks, and make sure a project is moving forward as well as overall communication between different parties of a project. A producer may help choose an overall direction and sound for a particuliar project, and try to keep things cohesive, as well be involved in song selection.

A producer will usually take a percentage of the overall project.

I was engineering a session with a very well known and famous producer once tracking a vocalist, and it was interesting, Very laid back, just offered some opinions here and there, worked with the talent well, and let them do their own thing enough. Very laid back and I was expecting more micro managing, far from it.

 

[lolzgreg]

The best engineers are the ones that know how to produce. I probably feel this way because I do both. I think you need to know what you want to get from the band, how you want to get it out of them and how to actually make it sound like the way you envision it. To do this you have to motivate, mold and paint the picture they way you want it.

 

[locoed]

IMO a producers job is to do just that,produce good music at whatever cost,since bands don't always agree on everything and don't always get along,theres going to be difference's,and a producer is like an extended member with an outside ear,not to knock drummers but they have the worst ear,my drummer has ideas but seem to get shot down by our producer,time after time.In my band i write %100 if the music and arange it,and i do about half or more of the lyrics.
I like when our producer helps,but i'm sure some bands some bands don't want to be helped.
Guess it depends on who you're working with,but i think a great producer can be ready for anything.
Great tones,bass,drums,guitars,vocals,working with a singer can be pretty trying.Knowing when to make changes and be a good shrink.Thats my short answer.

 

[haze63]

I am a one stop shop produce, engineer, amp guru and sound designer... Yes it sucks wearing many hats, but I immerse myself into the projects I work on. http://www.myspace.com/wreckt_audio

 

[moltenmetalburn]

I think in some instances a producer can turn a good band into a great band. It really depends on the producer. Production to me means taking the songs and pushing them to that next level of greatness ya know?

+1

 

[glpg80]

production and engineering takes years of talent and know-how, its just not something that can be learned from a book.

same thing with amplifier designs.

i have learned that you cant take the role of every position and expect it to be the best, but those that can do so in the recording industry have my utmost respect. its alot to know and alot of practice to get there and know what they are doing - and see your vision or surpass it on the record.

with that being said i agree with raginkajin that music producers can make a good band sound great with that talent-magic under their belts

 

[RaceU4her]

i overlooked the role of a producer for a long time, and always thought i would never want someone fucking with my songs. then i started noticing the same few names on a lot of my favorite albums, such as butch vig, terry date, and gggarth. then i go look at those guys bodies of work:



Terry Date: He is best known for his work with Deftones, Dark Angel, Dream Theater, White Zombie, Soundgarden, Limp Bizkit and Pantera among tons of others


Butch Vig : the producer of multi-platinum selling albums Nevermind by Nirvana and Siamese Dream by Smashing Pumpkins.

GGGarth :RATM, Mudvayne, Chevelle, Nickleback, Testament, RHCP




these guys obviously know what they are doing when it comes to writing songs. i understand now how you hear about bands going to the studio with 40 songs and the producer will end up making 5 or 6 songs out of that 40. i think the role of a producer is mostly to take what you have and make it better.