Since the other thread is deep.....

[bionicmark]

I see a lot of guys saying "I doubt they'll get it close to an original 2C+ , and nothing will be as good." , etc....

Can someone please post a link of that particular amp sounding "amazing" or "killer" whether it be on youtube or soundcloud?

I'd like to think because I'm not that old , that I still have good hearing. I'd also like to think I have a very small grasp on what sounds "good".

It's just that I'm having a pretty hard time wrapping my head around the HUGE debate about the new Mesa JP-2C and an original 2C+.

I personally haven't come across a youtube clip where I think the original sounds good at all.

And, Yes...I have Master Of Puppets....

 

[Crunchtime]

Are you saying you think MOP does not have great tone?

If so, I disagree with you thinking you have good hearing.

 

[garey77]

It's a bunch of horespuckey. I'd buy a new one in a sec. All these dudes that think they're purists until they actually need two channels. The new one does that.

 

[Badronald]

Flemming Rasmussen

 

[Kemper-VS-Fractal]

And Metallica didn't even use a stock 2C+ anyway, they had to rewire it and put it through Marshall power amps to get it to sound good.

 

[Racerxrated]

I have one. An upgraded 60w. I also found an original HRG, like Petrucci likes. I've heard about 'original vs upgrade blah blah'..I compared both and sold the original. I've had a shit ton of great amps and a 2C+ is all thats advertised. Articulate, thick with nice mids and takes boosts well. And you do have 2 channels, just keep the clean volume down and you're fine. If you need more gain on the lead channel just boost a little. That's how I get a nice clean channel with that amazing lead channel. I haven't heard one clip of this amp that does it justice. The clips all sound like a Mark 3, not that its bad. But I've had Mark 3s and its not close to my ears. And I don't go for old school Metallica tones. I do think the new one will be nice, and will consider one used down the road...

 

[Chris6870]

I don't get it either. So many other options these days. Not interested in chasing a 30 year old amp with limited functions.

 

[dfrattaroli]

I'm kind of in line with OP. Not that I haven't heard an original C+ sound great. I have. I just don't get all the hype. I have heard tons of other Mesa Marks sound awesome too. It's a fucking tired discussion. And the idea that Mesa "peaked" 20 some-odd years ago is just stupid.

 

[bionicmark]

Are you saying you think MOP does not have great tone?

If so, I disagree with you thinking you have good hearing.

I'm saying that MOP is a produced record and it's common knowledge that they spent a lot of time dialing in the sound & has multiple guitar tracks on the record. As someone mentioned , it wasn't a stock 2C+ through one 4x12 cab mic'd.

I was referring to a couple of chords or riffs played through any speaker cab w/no post production , w/d set up , boosted, etc.. Just a simple camera or iPhone clip as if you were just playing one at guitar center..

I never did sh*t on the MOP tone.

 

[thiswaythatway]

Posted on The Boogie Board by Doug West:



Dear MARK II-C+ Owners and prospective JP-2C Owners,

It’s come to my attention that a phrase I wrote in the Owner’s Manual for the new JP-2C has offended some of our valued and loyal customer’s. I can’t tell you the stress, sadness, embarrassment and regret I feel for possibly alienating and accidentally offending those who have supported our company and our products for so many years. I want to apologize and humbly beg forgiveness for this offense and assure anyone that took offense at my words that it was meant not as an insult, but rather as a tongue in cheek humorous way of saying that the JP-2C really is that good and , in my opinion, better than a MARK II-C+. Not because it sounds better, but because it offers so many more ways to get at and utilize those great sounds.

I also want to assure those that did take offense, that I am firmly planted in the very camp I was identifying… for I am an admitted II-C+ Snob of the highest order, and I should have made that crystal clear in my writing. When faced with the task of creating a manual for such a full featured amplifier that will end up being very long and let’s face it, possibly boring, I have been tempted time and again to include a bit of humor to break up the technical monotony. Perhaps there is no place at all for it, but when the task of creating more thorough manuals for our amplifiers fell in my lap 30 years ago, I vowed to make them more enjoyable and real in terms of how musicians view things and speak than those I had in my stack of gear manuals. (Closer if we end here; So please accept my sincere apology… anyone who did, or may in the future, read that phrase and take offense. It was nothing more than me trying to paint a picture of how good the JP-2C really is.

Sincerely and Respectfully,

Douglas West
R&D, MESA/Boogie, LTD.



http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.ph ... 15#p484829

 

[thiswaythatway]

I see a lot of guys saying "I doubt they'll get it close to an original 2C+ , and nothing will be as good." , etc....

Can someone please post a link of that particular amp sounding "amazing" or "killer" whether it be on youtube or soundcloud?

I'd like to think because I'm not that old , that I still have good hearing. I'd also like to think I have a very small grasp on what sounds "good".

It's just that I'm having a pretty hard time wrapping my head around the HUGE debate about the new Mesa JP-2C and an original 2C+.

I personally haven't come across a youtube clip where I think the original sounds good at all.

And, Yes...I have Master Of Puppets....

This is a 60 watt IIC+ I used to own. It's just my crappy setup I had with an audio buddy mic-pre into Sonar. SM57 Mic on an old Metal Grill Mesa with MC90 speaker. Not the best audio quality but it is what it is.

https://soundcloud.com/danieldowning/co ... ove-master

 

[Racerxrated]

Are you saying you think MOP does not have great tone?

If so, I disagree with you thinking you have good hearing.

I'm saying that MOP is a produced record and it's common knowledge that they spent a lot of time dialing in the sound & has multiple guitar tracks on the record. As someone mentioned , it wasn't a stock 2C+ through one 4x12 cab mic'd.

I was referring to a couple of chords or riffs played through any speaker cab w/no post production , w/d set up , boosted, etc.. Just a simple camera or iPhone clip as if you were just playing one at guitar center..

I never did sh*t on the MOP tone.

Hopefully everyone understands that recorded tones are impossible to reproduce with an amp, cabs, guitar and pedals..soo much goes into those recordings. Multiple amps, mics/positions, cabs, rooms, post eq...etc etc.

 

[bunghole]

Am I the only one who thinks Ride the Lightning has a better sound than MOP?

 

[Mr. Willy]

Am I the only one who thinks Ride the Lightning has a better sound than MOP?

I'm on the fence, but you have an argument. RTL has a really good sound for the type of music it contains.

 

[jharpersj]

I haves owned all the mark series and personally prefer the 4

 

[midnightlaundry]

And Metallica didn't even use a stock 2C+ anyway, they had to rewire it and put it through Marshall power amps to get it to sound good.

Correct. Effects line out to the effects return of the Marshall. They must have liked the more vibey feel and extra mids of the EL34. It's not the stock amp on the record.

 

[jammin1]

Posted on The Boogie Board by Doug West:



Dear MARK II-C+ Owners and prospective JP-2C Owners,

It’s come to my attention that a phrase I wrote in the Owner’s Manual for the new JP-2C has offended some of our valued and loyal customer’s. I can’t tell you the stress, sadness, embarrassment and regret I feel for possibly alienating and accidentally offending those who have supported our company and our products for so many years. I want to apologize and humbly beg forgiveness for this offense and assure anyone that took offense at my words that it was meant not as an insult, but rather as a tongue in cheek humorous way of saying that the JP-2C really is that good and , in my opinion, better than a MARK II-C+. Not because it sounds better, but because it offers so many more ways to get at and utilize those great sounds.


Sincerely and Respectfully,

Douglas West
R&D, MESA/Boogie, LTD.

This guy needs to stop being such a puss and those "offended" need to put on their big boy pants and stop whining
like little sissies!

 

[glip22]

Posted on The Boogie Board by Doug West:



Dear MARK II-C+ Owners and prospective JP-2C Owners,

It’s come to my attention that a phrase I wrote in the Owner’s Manual for the new JP-2C has offended some of our valued and loyal customer’s. I can’t tell you the stress, sadness, embarrassment and regret I feel for possibly alienating and accidentally offending those who have supported our company and our products for so many years. I want to apologize and humbly beg forgiveness for this offense and assure anyone that took offense at my words that it was meant not as an insult, but rather as a tongue in cheek humorous way of saying that the JP-2C really is that good and , in my opinion, better than a MARK II-C+. Not because it sounds better, but because it offers so many more ways to get at and utilize those great sounds.


Sincerely and Respectfully,

Douglas West
R&D, MESA/Boogie, LTD.

This guy needs to stop being such a puss and those "offended" need to put on their big boy pants and stop whining
like little sissies!

He was told to write the apology

 

[bionicmark]

I see a lot of guys saying "I doubt they'll get it close to an original 2C+ , and nothing will be as good." , etc....

Can someone please post a link of that particular amp sounding "amazing" or "killer" whether it be on youtube or soundcloud?

I'd like to think because I'm not that old , that I still have good hearing. I'd also like to think I have a very small grasp on what sounds "good".

It's just that I'm having a pretty hard time wrapping my head around the HUGE debate about the new Mesa JP-2C and an original 2C+.

I personally haven't come across a youtube clip where I think the original sounds good at all.

And, Yes...I have Master Of Puppets....

This is a 60 watt IIC+ I used to own. It's just my crappy setup I had with an audio buddy mic-pre into Sonar. SM57 Mic on an old Metal Grill Mesa with MC90 speaker. Not the best audio quality but it is what it is.

https://soundcloud.com/danieldowning/co ... ove-master

Cool! Thank you! Nice playing for sure! Now, if you told me this was a JSX or something in that vain , I'd believe you. Not necessarily because of the tone per say, but because of the style of playing and delay on the track. I've seen Satch a bunch of times & his tone in a live setting sounds similar.

Bad example here because he's using his Marshalls..but I wanted to show you where I was getting the comparison...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i8S5nQcAdg


Every youtube clip of a 2C+ I've pulled up sounds below sub par.

 

[RJF]

It cracks me up...... all this talk about how this new 2C+ is going to sound compared to the old one...the horse has already been beaten to death....yet the horse hasn't even been born yet. Nobody here or anyone else that anyone knows has even played the amp yet.

Oh and as far as Mesa's apology, I'm more irritated that they DID apologize than what they even said, because all of this back and forth crap just shows how much they were right with the first statement.