Talk to me about the Rocktron Juice Extractor!

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MrDan666

MrDan666

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So i have been reading up on these and they seem to be a pretty cool unit!

Anyone here used one before or still using one?

If so, what dya think of it? (soundwise/featurewise etc)

Also, what amp did you use with it?

Id be interested in using it to dummy load an old Marshall cranked and reamp it into a tube poweramp! :rock:
 
Dan, if you really just want to load the amp down (and you don't need to record thru the unit), any loadbox will do this job.
All the unit needs is a line out (if your Marshall has none) - you could even install a line out into your amp (simple, 2 resistors, 1 pot).

Koch Loadbox
Marshall SE-100
THD Hotplate
Weber Mass
Palmer PDI03 or PGA04
Kitty Hawk Loadette

You could even make this yourself: http://www.tube-town.net/diy/tt-pos/tt-posx-en.html
 
they were and still are terrible. look at groove tubes or palmer but theyre not all that either. best sound would be ultimate attenuator and you dont need a power amp etc.
 
I HAD one and lost it amongst other things when my home in Hollywood was broken into in the late eighties.
I used it in exactly the context of which you speak; A primo 4 input 50 watt Marshall head with a basic mod I had done to it, into the extractor, thru a few rack mount effects, then on to 3 200 watt Marshall Majors.
It was awesome - Nothing like a sterile passive dummy load as the units key element was an internal 100 watt active coil that provided the amp's output stage with real speaker qualities which give it the "feel" of when it's cranked.
Combine that with a variable noise reduction unit, (NOT a gate) and a fully sweepable 3 band parametric EQ, and you've got the most killer rack effect ever made for getting tonality of a medium output tube amp at any volume, and without the noise!
Split it into stereo, process it and run it direct as a recording rig.
I really miss it.
 


We were both using these Juice Extractors in these old vids. This was 1992. I still have mine and use it some. Its a great unit once you figure it out. Very powerful tone shaping and the noise reduction works well. I ran mine stereo out to 2 mid 70's Marshall heads that had power amp inputs installed. The other guitar player ran his into a Mosvalve.

The only downside were the pots were kinda cheap. With the right combination of speaker curve / eq you could get some cool stuff. It was alot to haul around though!
 
Greazygeo":3o4xmuhr said:


We were both using these Juice Extractors in these old vids. This was 1992. I still have mine and use it some. Its a great unit once you figure it out. Very powerful tone shaping and the noise reduction works well. I ran mine stereo out to 2 mid 70's Marshall heads that had power amp inputs installed. The other guitar player ran his into a Mosvalve.

The only downside were the pots were kinda cheap. With the right combination of speaker curve / eq you could get some cool stuff. It was alot to haul around though!

Yeah the Extractors are cool but the pots are total crap.

Is that a Hamer flying V ?

I give the videos an 8 out of 10, and your bangs a solid 9 :D
 
Oh yeah - That's one thing I forgot to mention; Hauling around 3 full stacks with mondo heavy 200 watt major heads, (These also were set up w/power stage inputs and 4 massive KT-88 output tubes each. Brutally loud and speaker blowingly clean capable amps, but sounded awful plugging into the front end of 'em..) plus the fifty watt head and a rack full of the extractor and post processors was a true feat to accomplish, get set up and torn down in time, gig after gig. But at the time it was worth it for the God-Tone. (And look...) The reactive aspect of it's nature made all the difference in the world - Put passive resistive loads to shame and were easier on the output stage of the cranked amp driving it as it was a reactive load that interacted properly with the output tubes, output transformer and all. You could actually hear the coil squawking away being tormented by the output of the driving amp actually physically emanating from the extractor itself once you got the amp cranked up to the point where you were getting the sound of the output tubes overdriving which is when it stopped sounding like a buzzy little preamp and got some "squanch", some meat to the tone which was the whole point. And even though the excess power was absorbed by a high wattage non-inductive load array internally, that coil ran HOT during a good toasty workout!
 
thegame":2udrn2gj said:
Yeah the Extractors are cool but the pots are total crap.

Is that a Hamer flying V ?

I give the videos an 8 out of 10, and your bangs a solid 9 :D
Nah its a Gibson...sais "The V" on the headstock. my first good guitar! Weighed a ton too. :)
 
Was there a few variations of these units? I thought they were straight resistive loads. I remember bringing these units up at the Rocktron service department and their comment was "you don't use one of those do you?". They said that they stopped making them because of all the OPT's that got smoked. I've owned a bunch of direct recording / load box devices and this was one that I would not miss. I thought they sounded awful. YMMV.
 
I'm guessing that the at least MANY of the OPT's were toasted because of having things not set up quite right in the output stage and then running it full out; Imbalaced push/pull setups with tubes gone or arcing out with overrated or foil fuses, bias currents all out of whack, plate resistors smoked, accidentally uplugging the speaker cable from the extractor for a second with the thing in mid blaze - All the things you can get away with a lot of the time under normal circumstances which'll otherwise take things out in a big way, and often nearly instantaneously when the amp is under full load... I don't know.
Though it would seem that the gauge of copper used in the OPT windings of a well designed amp would be far too heavy to instantaneously open or fuse, but all it takes is an extreme surge blasting it by something like the momentary shorting or removal of the load on the secondary side when the amp is working at full capacity for that extreme momentary current surge to zap a burnhole right through the weakest point of the insulating laquer coating on the windings, and it's done. It'll always arc across the residual carbon anytime the current flowing through that transformer even gets to a moderate level.
In very much the same fashion that once a phenolic or bakelite output tube socket has played host to a resident tube arcing from pin to pin; even after a thorough cleaning, and re-tubing, trace amounts of carbon are left behind embedded in the material, nearly ensuring that currents will again follow that same carbon path, arcing all over again and destroying a perfectly good tube and possibly more. That's why God gave us ceramic tube sockets.
Though I was meticulous about always making sure that little 50 watter was perfectly set up at all times, and that rig was played with the 50 watter on about "8" day and night for years, I never once had any problems. Not or so much as even an output tube failure or worse yet "catastropically" arcing from pin to pin, much less an output transformer.
That role was exclusively delegated to the fatassed Marshall Majors that had over 700VDC on their plates. Since that was too much for modern 6550's to routinely handle, even with a proper re-bias to accomodate 6550's, and KT-88's were next to impossible to find, much less in matched quads, the ones that I could scrounge up that WERE employed were embarrassingly old and of unknown history.
Banging around in the backs of U-Haul's across the country and routinely being brought in from sub-zero ambient temps only to be fired up to full red-hot internal operating temperatures didn't fare well from any kind of perspective of enhanced longevity, either.
When one of those old KT-88's would fail, it was usually a fairly major chain destruction type of event, due to the extreme voltages and currents living in and around all aspects of those archaic output stage designs which were set up around the idea of milking over 200 watts from a single quad of tubes.
Ok sorry, I'm way rambling. Back to the point...
As far as I am aware the Alan Holdsworth Juice extractor featuring Hush IIC and 3 band fully parametric filter stage was the only model produced.
Have no explanation for how it could have sounded awful in application except in the cases of the fairly obvious, such as coupling it to the output of an amp whose output capabilities were way in excess of the 100 watt rating which wouldn't be all that uncommon as even a healthy 50 watter can frequently hit sustained peaks of a true 80 to 100 watts regularly.
Though I've never tried it, I would be a little skeptical of opening up a healthy 100 watter into one for any extended period of time for fear of smoking the extractor's 100 watt rated load section from heat and or current excesses. And once that's smoked, there goes the next weakest link in the amp...
I suppose another awful sounding scenario might be pushing a hybrid or solid state output into it in order to achieve output saturation, which in most designs would only yield highly unmusical nasty square wave garbage.
Or I might have just coincidentally struck on one of those freak magical combinations that normally didn't happen...
That sounds like an appropriate cue for me to shut it. Besides, I think this thing is about to run out of ink...
 

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