Tell me about 5150-III stealth vs. 5150-III EL34

VESmedic

Well-known member
Let's say it sounds like a dying cat. In a mix, or in live situations, where that sort of tighter low-end is going to be part of a high-gain metal song, is it going to out-compete the drummer and bass player for low-end?

Here is another way of looking at it. What difference will the bass going through 0-10 make? I think it is not uncommon for many high-gain metal guitarists to have the bass on 0 for both mixes and live or even if they don't, the sound engineer will likely be cutting it, if not yourself using a frown shape EQ to get the sort of mid-range tone death metal is known for.

So really 100W for low-end is pretty specialized when you think about it. The answer to all that in modern metal is 7 or 8 string guitars and playing like you are Meshuggah chugging (don't know why it's called Djent) out like you are on a baritone and as it happens their amp setup is a whole other world away from tubes, wattages, and analog systems. Like Gojira, they are using IRs and FRFR. Gojira use the 100W EVH5150III through a Two Notes Torpedo Live 2x12 Eddie cab. 6 string humbucker telecaster. Meshuggah are the 7+ string guitars, playing the top two strings and profiles on Axe-FX from what I remember. Have heard both live more than once. Arguably the heaviest and loudest bands at the festivals both doing cab sims. Hmmmm...

On the other end of the spectrum of alt-metal, you have Friedman/Orange and Mastodon doing a whole other thing all-analog tubes and cabs. I have heard them three times. They are very loud also. Different playing styles.

Anyway, the point is, the practical use of electric guitar low-end frequencies in high-gain songs in band mixes seems not to rate highly on the issues for consideration in mixes due to competitive issues. Seems more of something the first few rows in a gig might experience before the stage monitors wash that out or something you will get playing by yourself in the basement/barn through a 4x12. Outside of that, it seems they get cut.



You’re an idiot… and gojira hasn’t used that IR in years…. Is that how you wrote your book? By watching 6-7 year old YouTube videos and gathering information that way?


Also… you wanna know how many of the heaviest records were recorded with 5150s in the last 10 years? With the resonance and bass on 10…. TEN…. TEN… write that down in your fucking book moron….. TEN….
 

VESmedic

Well-known member
You Realize there were Maybe 2 Bands in the 90's that used the Valvestate for Death Metal other than the band Death that is. It feels as if every post you make are exceprts from your book & are simply to hear(read) your self talk. The OP Asked specific questions & probably would like a simple answer rather than a longwinded excerpt from your book. Look at VES Medics Post. While i like to troll VES Medic from time to time, he's a great player in my book & a great recording engineer. Be more like him & K.I.S.S.


SEEEEE… it’s all in good fun! I’m glad you get it, because I don’t take it as seriously as I sound sometimes :) I’m just passionate and love to help if I can. I’m no engineer yet, but that’s very nice of you to say :)
 

VESmedic

Well-known member
Also… once again…. Bass and resonance on TEN. I didn’t read that in some book, I didn’t listen to some YouTube idiot, I know this because A: I was either there at the recording and/or had gear of mine used on certain records, or I know because I know the engineer personally. And no I don’t know Andy sneap personally, but my circle does, and has collaborated with him on records for over 15 years… but keep trying to push your book on 13 watt amps and bass knobs at zero… Christ.
 

Racerxrated

Well-known member
Ahhh, gotcha
The Blue on the 50w EL34 needs a slight boost to tighten lows..the red doesn’t. The 100w EL34 is perfect if that’s the tone you want. No boost needed to tighten lows.
I had the 100w 6L6 Stealth and while the clarity was better, it seemed to be at the expense of thinner sounding single note leads. The 100w EL34 didn’t have that issue.
Ultimately though, for me any version I played had this ‘plasticky’ fake thing going on, that wasn’t for me.
 

TheGreatGreen

Well-known member
Ahhh, gotcha

One thing I'd like to chime in on about the farty and mushy low end of the EL34 50w's Blue channel is that this can actually be beneficial to the sound IF you use boosts that also cut bass, like a Tubescreamer, with that channel. The squishy low end in that scenario can actually help balance the bass cut of the boost pedal and give a more balanced sound in the end. There are several youtube videos that give examples of this and even with youtube's compression, the difference between the two is fairly apparent.

But if you're not going to run a boost pedal, the 6L6 50w's Blue channel is naturally tighter, so in that case the 6L6 50w would probably suit you better.

(edit: just beaten to the punch with this info by @Racerxrated lol)

Also, for what it's worth, to backup what @VESmedic is saying, I also have a 100w 5150 III EL34 and can also confirm its Blue channel doesn't suffer from the same mushiness as the Blue channel in the 50w EL34 amp.
 

TheToneDig

Active member
Here are Gojira's amp settings. Red channel gain 10. Pretty much EQ near noon +1 or -1 with Blue channel mid-scooped.

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TheToneDig

Active member
So nobody has answered this yet. Is it normal for the gain to be alot even when set to 8 o'clock?
First of all, all these amps sound different from each other because that's the nature of these analog circuits. Sweet spots can differ. So your 8 o'clock could be my 9 etc. However, if you are getting unusable gain at 8 o'clock on the blue channel that would be puzzling. If you are getting gain at 8 on the red channel, that is normal even if you find the red channel unusable as some do and stick to blue. What I would watch out for is fizz and get rid of that by adjusting the bias and new power tubes which is what helped me. In fact, I remember doing a whole change over from the stock JJs inside and biased it. That smoothed out a lot.
 

VESmedic

Well-known member
So nobody has answered this yet. Is it normal for the gain to be alot even when set to 8 o'clock?



First of all… don’t listen to this dipshit above me who tells you biasing is going to fix this amps “issues”… it’s not. What tonedick forgets, is that these amps are DESIGNED to to be run colder, for a very good reason that I’m sure you are aware of. The colder ( within reason obviously) these amps run, the more high end they have, the more headroom, and the tighter the low end will be. Which is why I always laugh when people “bias mod” their 5150. They took a really high gain amp, and turned it to mush. The colder power section allows the amp to be pushed up louder and stay together in the low end and response. Which is literally why Eddie designed all of his amps this way. Plus, the added benefit of tubes lasting longer isn’t a bad thing either. My Herbert sounds much better biased colder, I’ve never had anyone prefer it as high as Peter Reccomends it either..





But actually screw all that: buy a 15 watt amp, bias it hot as all fuck, and turn the bass knob to zero. That should get you what you are going for.



In all seriousness the C137 mod on the 50 watt will fix the issues you are having. The 100 watt is a completely different amp as far as it concerned, it just really is. I believe the preamp is different in it actually as well but I could be wrong on that.
 

Rayneman

Well-known member
For what its worth, I did the C137 mod on my 50 watt EL34 amp. It definitely eliminates that "flubby" or loose low end. However, even with that done, I don't feel the blue channel is as gainy as the 50 watt 6L6 or the 100 watt EL34 (amps I have actually owned). This is not a bad thing, as there are 3 super distinct channels, but I'd say the blue channel (post C137 mod) is more of a crunch channel, than the blue on the other amps. If I put an 808 in front of that channel, it gooses the sustain for a nice lead tone, but it doesn't have anywhere near the punch of the red channel. This is purely my own experience with my particular amp.
 

VESmedic

Well-known member
For what its worth, I did the C137 mod on my 50 watt EL34 amp. It definitely eliminates that "flubby" or loose low end. However, even with that done, I don't feel the blue channel is as gainy as the 50 watt 6L6 or the 100 watt EL34 (amps I have actually owned). This is not a bad thing, as there are 3 super distinct channels, but I'd say the blue channel (post C137 mod) is more of a crunch channel, than the blue on the other amps. If I put an 808 in front of that channel, it gooses the sustain for a nice lead tone, but it doesn't have anywhere near the punch of the red channel. This is purely my own experience with my particular amp.



Yea this is why I really think they have a different preamp than the 100 watt. I can’t remember where I read this, but this leads me to believe that even more. But this is another reason why I love the 100 watt so much, the 2 lead channels are totally different but both are just as killer for different things, with the blue channel bring more mid focused and rounder, the red channel being brighter and generally more aggressive with a different low end. And the green channel can just do so much from clean to jtm 45ish type break up. It’s the only incarnation of the amp since the original 5153 to me that has 3 channels that are all fantastic and different, a true Swiss army amp if you need it to be. The original was like this as well, with the blue channel just being fantastic, I miss that aml just for that sometimes.
 

TheGreatGreen

Well-known member
So nobody has answered this yet. Is it normal for the gain to be alot even when set to 8 o'clock?

Yes, that's normal. I have three different 5150 III amps (100w Stealth, 100w EL34, and 50w 6L6) and on all of them, setting the gain to 8:00 gives me a crunchy, JCM 800-esque level of distortion. The amps aren't full bore gain mayhem at those settings, but they do get pretty crunchy even there.

These are very high gain amps.

Yea this is why I really think they have a different preamp than the 100 watt. I can’t remember where I read this, but this leads me to believe that even more. But this is another reason why I love the 100 watt so much, the 2 lead channels are totally different but both are just as killer for different things, with the blue channel bring more mid focused and rounder, the red channel being brighter and generally more aggressive with a different low end. And the green channel can just do so much from clean to jtm 45ish type break up. It’s the only incarnation of the amp since the original 5153 to me that has 3 channels that are all fantastic and different, a true Swiss army amp if you need it to be. The original was like this as well, with the blue channel just being fantastic, I miss that aml just for that sometimes.

I think you're right. I find the 50w amps have preamps that tend to sound a bit more "slinky" than the 100w amps, which are a bit thicker overall. I like both of them but there is a difference. However, I find I can get the 50w fairly close to the 100w if I add an EQ pedal and mid-boost the guitar a bit going into the amp. Still not exactly the same due to the different power sections but it does go a long way.
 
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VESmedic

Well-known member
Yes, that's normal. I have three different 5150 III amps (100w Stealth, 100w EL34, and 50w 6L6) and on all of them, setting the gain to 8:00 gives me a crunchy, JCM 800-esque level of distortion. The amps aren't full bore gain mayhem at those settings, but they do get pretty crunchy even there.

These are very high gain amps.



I think you're right. I find the 50w amps have preamps that tend to sound a bit more "slinky" than the 100w amps, which are a bit thicker overall. I like both of them but there is a difference. However, I find I can get the 50w fairly close to the 100w if I add an EQ pedal and mid-boost the guitar a bit going into the amp. Still not exactly the same due to the different power sections but it does go a long way.



I agree. I actually sold my EL34 100 earlier this year. Actually traded it for a few things I wanted and it was a great deal with a friend, and it’s really the only “production” or easily obtainable amp I owned at the time. Missed it ever since. Luckily I have another on the way finally! I got a demo model from musicians friend on the way for 1600, hopefully it’s perfectly fine, we will see!
 

romanianreaper

Well-known member
I have a few reasons to move to the Stealth 50-watt head but still thinking about it. I do like the bias adjustment on the outside of the amp. Also, I'm in my 50s, and my combo is 64 pounds! I'd much rather have a head and speaker cab I think. I also am intrigued with the stealth. I'm more of a low mid guy and have heard the stealth blue channel has more of that.
 

journeyman73

Active member
I don’t know - I had a 6L6 Stealth for a while and, yeah, it ha d a shitload of gain available…but you could definitely dial it down and get some nice rock/hard rock tones from it.

Funnily enough, the green channel with the gain up gave a pretty cool plexi crunch type level of gain, blue was great modded marshall type tone, red was full on assault.

But it’s not like the voicing made it automatically metal or something - hell, my Wizard MC II was a lot more metal and sinister sounding than the EVH
 

Bardagh

Member
I’ve had both the regular 6L6 and 6L6 Stealth 50 watt heads. The green and blue channels on them are different but the red seemed exactly the same. The global presence control “opens up” earlier on the Stealth but that’s kind of a meaningless difference.

The blue channel on the Stealth is leaner and clearer than the original. It has a healthy amount of gain. Boosted I probably wouldn’t run it past 1 o’clock and usually lower for what I like. The midrange focus seems narrower than on the original, where the blue channel seems to have pretty wide open mids with more down towards that 500hz area. I think players who like thrashy kind of tones will prefer the Stealth blue channel.

The green channel on the Stealth is a really killer clean to crunch channel. Probably the best you can get in a high gain amp in this price range. Run the volume high, boost it/run a distortion pedal and dial in the gain knob to taste and there are all kinds of rock tones in that one channel.
 
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