THD Hotplate Question

[AssfaceRules]

Hello THD hotplate users,
I am looking for cranked tube sounds at medium volumes. I will be using a Mesa 50/50 power amp. Can I run channel a speaker out of the power amp into the hotplate, set the hotplate for load, run the line out of the hotplate into the input of channel b of said power amp, and have channel b power the speaker cab?

Am I insane? Will this work?

 

[chumbucket]

It sounds unnecessary. I think you'll just be introducing noise into the mix. The Mesa power amp is pretty clean all in all. What line level input are you running into the A input?

 

[Greazygeo]

That should work fine. Sounds like you are using a rack mount preamp into the poweramp?

 

[AssfaceRules]

Thanks for the replies fellas, I will be using an old Mesa Studio Preamp to send some sick tone into the poweramp.

 

[Rogue]

The hotplate will color and affect the feel of your tone. You may or may not like what it does to it. That'll be preference. You may find the positives of a cranked tube amp does not outweigh the negatives of a fully attenuated signal.

Only one way to know if you like it or not.

 

[TeleBlaster]

FWIW - the Hotplate is the best investment I ever made in my live tone. Not only for gain tones but incredibly rich and warm cleans.
Ed Degenero really helped me on this forum, and he was completely correct in regards to the Hotplate.
Have to have those power amp tubes working at a certain level, it makes all the difference in the tone and feel of the amp.

 

[Rogue]

FWIW - the Hotplate is the best investment I ever made in my live tone. Not only for gain tones but incredibly rich and warm cleans.
Ed Degenero really helped me on this forum, and he was completely correct in regards to the Hotplate.
Have to have those power amp tubes working at a certain level, it makes all the difference in the tone and feel of the amp.

Attenuators work pretty good for shaving off a few dbs, okay (depending on the unit) for a lot of dbs, and not very good for fully loading an amp. The more load you put on the amp via attenuator, the more it affects the tone.

I am using a Weber mass as a dummy load and using a DI box to get a signal to the DAW for IRs. The difference between attenuated and unattenuated signal is significant.

The Weber doesn't do very well for moderate attenuation either. I'd rather play my amp with volume lower than higher and attenuating. I had a Bad Cat Leash before that did a much better job (pretty livable, actually), but even with it the more attenuation the more colored the tone became...and feel.

For what the OP is suggesting (fully loading and using a line out like I'm using in the DAW), it is a significant change.

That is not to say good tones have been got by this method, but it is to say there is a difference in tone and feel that might prove more negatives than positives depending on the OPs preference.

 

[Greazygeo]

Thanks for the replies fellas, I will be using an old Mesa Studio Preamp to send some sick tone into the poweramp.

One thing to remember with the Hotplate on the "load" setting....the bass and treble switches work backwards.

 

[Greazygeo]

FWIW - the Hotplate is the best investment I ever made in my live tone. Not only for gain tones but incredibly rich and warm cleans.
Ed Degenero really helped me on this forum, and he was completely correct in regards to the Hotplate.
Have to have those power amp tubes working at a certain level, it makes all the difference in the tone and feel of the amp.

Attenuators work pretty good for shaving off a few dbs, okay (depending on the unit) for a lot of dbs, and not very good for fully loading an amp. The more load you put on the amp via attenuator, the more it affects the tone.

I am using a Weber mass as a dummy load and using a DI box to get a signal to the DAW for IRs. The difference between attenuated and unattenuated signal is significant.

The Weber doesn't do very well for moderate attenuation either. I'd rather play my amp with volume lower than higher and attenuating. I had a Bad Cat Leash before that did a much better job (pretty livable, actually), but even with it the more attenuation the more colored the tone became...and feel.

For what the OP is suggesting (fully loading and using a line out like I'm using in the DAW), it is a significant change.

That is not to say good tones have been got by this method, but it is to say there is a difference in tone and feel that might prove more negatives than positives depending on the OPs preference.

Using IR's the amp needs to be loaded down. Trying to only use it attenuated sounds terrible. Using the load setting, I get no difference vs a mic'd cab with or without attenuation.

 

[Rogue]

Using IR's the amp needs to be loaded down. Trying to only use it attenuated sounds terrible. Using the load setting, I get no difference vs a mic'd cab with or without attenuation.

I get a substantial difference between attenuated recordings and bypassed recordings.

Redwires released impedance curve IRs to run in series with your speaker/mic IRs. They make a huge difference in sounding more like it should. The basically are the impedance curves of the speakers, which is the lacking ingredient when an attenuator is between your amp and speaker. Unless your attenuator is a reactive load (which most including THDs are not), then you are not getting the reaction of the amp to the speaker load and that does affect the tone. The impedance curves simulates that reaction fairly well...but in the end the attenuated signal still isn't "right".

That said, I've never gotten any direct setup to sound as good as a well miced cab (key words being well miced).

 

[guitarslinger]

to the OP, that sounds like a REALLY cool idea worth trying.

I owned a hot plate, and it never occurred to me to try that.

 

[AssfaceRules]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I am not to concerned with a direct sound as this will be strictly for getting that cranked tube sound cooking at moderate volumes. Using the gear I have, (except the hotplate), I figured this could be a good way to do it. Keep in mind channel b of the power amp would not be attenuated, and would be going straight through to the speaker. Between the Studio pre's eq section and the switches on the hotplate, I think I can make it happen.
Thanks
*Face

 

[9ball]

i had a hotplate and i got rid of it. it sounded fine at the -8db setting, didn't really color the tone much if any, but i never wanted to turn it down any more than that, just because as good as your amp might sound "cranked", it's still turned down lol.
i just thought that you could get the amp really cooking and sounding great, but if you're attenuating it down to being quiet, then what's the point? it takes something away from making the speakers work IMO

 

[Digital Jams]

Ed did a clip with all kinds of db settings and many of us were wrong with what was what.

Just saying.....................


Love my HP, it is what it does.

 

[Rogue]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I am not to concerned with a direct sound as this will be strictly for getting that cranked tube sound cooking at moderate volumes.

You are going to get the same results as if you were going direct....the only difference is you're going direct to a power amp for amplification as opposed to direct the DAW. Your tone will be affected the same way.

Here is a clip from a guy who was going direct and experimenting with different methods of loading the amp..

0-12sec - resistive load
12-15 - real speaker
17-24 - reactive load (too much bass, the sample was recorded before i tweaked the values)

The two loaded were using a convolver and IR in the DAW.

Most attenuators have a resistive load or partial resistive partial reactive. The weber is the latter and I get the same results as that clip. When you completely load the amp, as you are planning on doing, is when an attenuators effects are most apparent.

You may like the resistive load signal, I did not.

The motherload elemental has a reactive load. There was a new kind of attenuator posted on here not long ago that looked interesting, but I forget the company that made it. There are others too. These are more expensive than normal attenuators though...they also get better results.

I talked with Alex (of Alex Attenuator) about using his as a load box and using a direct signal and even he said I'd get better results with something like the motherload at full attenuation because of the reactive load.

This is also why you see tone controls on many attenuators...to try and compensate for the tone lose. I'm not trying to dissuade you from this approach, I am telling you the results you are going to get by doing it. You should, at the least, look into it further if you are not fond of the resistive load part of the clip above.

 

[Greazygeo]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I am not to concerned with a direct sound as this will be strictly for getting that cranked tube sound cooking at moderate volumes. Using the gear I have, (except the hotplate), I figured this could be a good way to do it. Keep in mind channel b of the power amp would not be attenuated, and would be going straight through to the speaker. Between the Studio pre's eq section and the switches on the hotplate, I think I can make it happen.
Thanks
*Face

It will work great for you. Just don't forget to reverse the Hotplate eq switches. I don't ever use those, not necessary. The one thing that might take a bit to get used to is hearing the HP fan come on while playing at low volumes.

All the vids on my YT channel are slaved with the HP...it's cool.