The Two Component 5150 Mod (Details/Demos Inside)

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JakeAC5253

JakeAC5253

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I recently played with a 5150 mod to fill out the sound while keeping the original voicing and feel. It was supposed to be a single component mod that turned into a dual component mod just to balance it out. Funny story to it actually. I was having a look at the schematic for the original 5150 and I noticed one component value which made no sense to me. I thought it was a typo before I opened my amp and found that it was indeed correct. I started by wiring a 1M pot in series with R101 in order to use it as a feel knob to change the way the amp felt on the fly. A friend and I both thought that all the way up sounded like junk compared to the rest of the sweep, and I said ahh that's alright, that's the full up mod value, can't expect it to all sound good. After I disconnected the pot I realized that I had wired it backwards and full up was the "stock" amp value with the pot resistance set on 0Ω and the amp's stock resistor only!

The mod was born, but it needed tweaking. I raised the value of R101, values between 220k and 470k work, but any higher and the amp can tend to feedback pretty bad, noise gates still work, and so do the knobs on the front. I lowered the R9 value to somewhat balance this out, but I didn't go nearly as low as the suggested Cameron mods. 250k, 330k, 470k, 680k are good values for replacement for R9, any lower than a single 250k resistor there and you absolutely decimate the amps voicing and feel. This goes for impedances created by more than one resistor as well (the original mod said to put two resistors in parallel). If you did this, beware that you are creating an impedance value that may well be much lower than you think it is (applies to noob modders only) and I would recommend playing with values much higher than what Cameron suggested.

And here are the clips:

Preamble (details about mod and setup):


Crunch Channel Demo:


Lead Channel Demo:


The clips are long but detailed. Hopefully I've shown the tone effectively, like I said it's not so much better as it is different but also useful, which is why I wired it up to a switch so I have both tones at my disposal. Thanks for listening.
 
It's more evident to me on the crunch channel clip. It sounds thicker with a little more gain. I couldn't notice that much difference between the two lead channel tones, but then again my ears are blown out from standing too close to a cranked up 5150.
 
couldnt really tell much.. i like the fizzy sound of the 5150 thats what makes the amp.. and is why i have 2..
 
I can hear the differences. I think it improved the Crunch channel, but I like the stock Lead sound better than the modded one. It just had more seperation and detail. All preference though. None of the clips sounded bad. Very interesting for sure.
 
D-Rock":3pjzlek3 said:
I can hear the differences. I think it improved the Crunch channel, but I like the stock Lead sound better than the modded one. It just had more seperation and detail. All preference though. None of the clips sounded bad. Very interesting for sure.

Definitely. I may have gone a bit overboard with the R101 mod in mine. I went with a value of 470k, up from 100k stock, when a value of 220k or 330k may have been more fitting. Still a cool mod I think, much smoother even if it did come at the cost of some definition. Sustain is better though. I might play with the value there myself.
 
little ot here but what are you guys biasing these things to? yes mine is bias modded...thx
 
Jake:

Thanks for posting! Nice clips, good sound comparisons, great descriptions without too much chatter. I'm pretty happy with my 5150 with the current mod values but I love the potential for further refining.

155:

I increased my bias setting from the stock 19ma to 32ma. I didn't notice any improvement beyond that and my understanding is 6L6s aren't particularly fond of HOT settings. I'd eagerly tinker some more though if someone were to convince me otherwise...
 
funny thing had mine around 20ish then bumped it to around 34 and im not liking the results...
 
155":i83xb77t said:
funny thing had mine around 20ish then bumped it to around 34 and im not liking the results...

I touched upon this in my preamble clip above. I dont think the power tube bias is the root of the coldness in the stock amp, many dissatisfied modders who have done the bias mod agree with me. Try dialing in the stock bias of around 18-22mA and try raising r101 to 220k instead. Looking back I might have gone to too high a value for r101 in my original post. 220k should be a nice even middle ground. Post back if you like it.

Another thing you could do is wire a 250k-500k linear pot in series with the stock resistor and dial it in in real time just like you would the bias mod pot.
 
Maybe it's night and day in the room, but IMO the Lead clip didn't capture the difference.

The Crunch is more noticeable, but I'd be putting it back stock if it was mine.

There's two things I really like about the 5150, the grind and the fizz. Speakers really matter though.

What speakers?
 
So which components did you finally settle on for R9 and R101? No regrets about modding it?
 
chumbucket":1lmesztn said:
So which components did you finally settle on for R9 and R101? No regrets about modding it?

Nope, no regrets. It's switchable so I always have the stock circuit available. I still enjoy the mod, though I have tweaked it a bit since the first post. Now I have 470k for R9 and 220k for R101.
 
i also settled on 470 for R9....went up to 680 but then it almost sounded like stock.

What does ur R101 mod do again Jake ?
 
faisalbaig":i9gchscv said:
What does ur R101 mod do again Jake ?

I didn't really go into much detail in the audio clips either. It's part of the signal flow and makes up part of a voltage divider, which in conjunction with the resistor before it, is biasing the output of V2B at about 9.1% output... very low. Increasing this resistor makes the amp much smoother and rounder sounding, but it does also increase the level of gain. I like to run my channel gains at 3 or below in modded mode, especially when the amp is of appropriate volume, but this mod in conjunction with the R9 mod sounds great. It's just a different flavor. The clean channel (crunch button out) in mod mode with the gain up to about 6 or 7 now sounds like a pretty convincing Marshall-ish crunch, even unboosted, where I find that it sounds both oversaturated and starved at the same time trying for the same sound in stock mode...
 
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