Tipping Culture

[MadAsAHatter]

I was reading through the back and forth about tipping in the 91 year old Canadian PM thread. Rather than derail that one even more I figured the subject is worthy of its own thread.

I think tipping is fucked up across the board in the US because of what it's morphed into. From most others' thoughts, the mindset appears to be of the old ways. Tipping was for a few core services; people who handle your food, cut your hair, or give you a nice tattoo. And on the wait staff side there was a lower minimum wage, but you could make good money from tips, especially if you got in a high class restaurant and provided excellent service. Like others were saying, you basically got to determine you amount of pay (in the form of tips) based on what you put into your work. With the exception of having a little higher base pay that $2.13/hr. this is a good system that could still work well today.

But here's where things go awry.

1. Asking for tips is out of control. Every damn business seems to prompt you for a tip. Checkout at a cloths shop; prompted for a tip. Get a hamburger from McDonalds; prompted for a tip. Home delivery for something; prompted for a tip. Self checkout al Walmart; prompted for a tip. The last one is an exaggeration, but you get the idea. People are panhandling tips for doing their basic job. No exemplary service, nothing extra special. Just I did my basic job for a service that has never warranted a tip, now give me more money. And lord forbid you don't tip before they even perform their job... They'll shit in your happy meal then hand it to you. Fuck you, I'm not going to pre-tip just so you do your basic job. This is pretty much extortion.

2. On the waitstaff side, you never know how the tipping works. Back when; and what most comments seem to be based on, your server was the one who received the entire tip. They did a great job and you spotted the an extra 5-10% tip they got to keep it. Now it's a mystery bag of where you tip goes. Some places still do it the old way where your server gets to keep it. Other place do communist tip sharing. Everyone has to put all their tips into a shared tip pool and they divided it up at the end of the night. On top of that, it doesn't mean it's divided between the wait staff only. Some places divided up amongst everyone from the busboy/dishwasher all the way up to kitchen staff. That's also assuming the owner doesn't think they deserve a cut too. Hell, there's even instances I've read about where an owner keeps all the tips claiming some shit like wear & tear on the business. That's wage theft, but it still happens. Anyway, in these instance the waitstaff get completely shit on in terms of making a decent wage. And they're no incentive to provide exemplary service when the bulk of our tip will go to someone else. Double so if other staff are lazy turds.

My premise being to get the extortion style pandering for tips under control, make sure the person being tipped gets to keep the entirety/no tip sharing, and bump the base pay up some (maybe $5/hr.) and the US tipping culture is a fairly decent system.

 

[84superchamp]

I keep it simple; I tip only for great service and where I know the "tipped" gets to pocket the money. Yes, requests are everywhere, another money grab, but it’s easy to say no.
One that gets me is McDonald's, asking at the drive thru if you want to contribute your change to the nearest dollar for blah blah blah BEFORE you know the amount you will owe...that change could be 3 cents or 98 cents because you don't know. And if you do give extra you are then told to pull up and park at #3 and wait 6-10 minutes for your simple order to show up. It's my last choice for FF now.
I enjoy tipping at sit-down restaurants with waitresses, giving a generous tip for good service and hopefully making that person's day a little better. OTOH i have sat down in that same restaurant and if no one has shown up within 5 minutes, I get up and walk out. Tips have to be deserved.

 

[Robostyle]

I agree that tipping for basically everything is pretty silly. That part has gotten out of control.
But for restaurants there is no reason to change it imho. And if you ask most tipped employees they would also agree.
Kinda like how salespeople usually get a percentage of their sales.

 

[84superchamp]

I agree that tipping for basically everything is pretty silly. That part has gotten out of control.
But for restaurants there is no reason to change it imho. And if you ask most tipped employees they would also agree.
Kinda like how salespeople usually get a percentage of their sales.

I remember my first WTF tipping moment: at Papa John's picking up pizza and paying with CC, the kiosk seemed to freeze. The attendant comes over, takes a look and says "it wants to know if you want to include a tip"...i clearly said NO as I punched the button.
But my pizza was right there, they couldn't spit on it.

 

[NoHassle]

I was reading through the back and forth about tipping in the 91 year old Canadian PM thread. Rather than derail that one even more I figured the subject is worthy of its own thread.

It certainly does and happy you did.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Tipping is completely of control in the USA.

I will tip a person after a job is performed if that job requires extended dealings with the customer, some degree of artistry to perform, and the experience includes some sense of entertainment, like being waited on at a restaurant, getting a haircut, or being served by a bartender who makes really good drinks, etc.

But if your job is "take the item I give you, scan it, then give it back to me" I'm not tipping. You can fuck right off asking me to tip for that shit. I'm also not "rounding up to the nearest dollar" for some foundation you made up so you get to claim my donation as your charitable donation and therefore tax write off.

If you're mad because you need tipping or else you can't make a decent living, please direct your anger toward your employer who structured your pay that way. It's not my fault your employer is exploiting you. Zooming out even further, if you're in America and mad about me not tipping you, please feel free to direct your anger towards the GOP who wants to deregulate every industry as much as possible, ensuring there are zero laws to protect you against that kind of predatory employee exploitation or ensuring you make a decent wage that doesn't rely on the whims of strangers.

Companies do it because a non-zero number of people are fucking stupid and go "DURR WELP THEY ASKED FOR A TIP GUESS I DONE GOTTA TIP A-HYUCK" and they tip for no reason. They've calculated the monetary value of the public Good Will lost from being asked to tip against the profit generated by asking for tips despite nothing warranting tipping being provided, and have determined it's worthwhile to do. Don't fall for it.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Hey there goes @Floyd Eye dropping drive-by laugh emojis at things he doesn't like but doesn't have the ability to articulate against.

 

[NoHassle]

Tipping is completely of control in the USA.

I will tip a person after a job is performed if that job requires extended dealings with the customer, some degree of artistry to perform, and the experience includes some sense of entertainment, like being waited on at a restaurant, getting a haircut, or being served by a bartender who makes really good drinks, etc.

But if your job is "take the item I give you, scan it, then give it back to me" I'm not tipping. You can fuck right off asking me to tip for that shit. I'm also not "rounding up to the nearest dollar" for some foundation you made up so you get to claim my donation as your charitable donation and therefore tax write off.

If you're mad because you need tipping or else you can't make a decent living, please direct your anger toward your employer who structured your pay that way. It's not my fault your employer is exploiting you. Zooming out even further, if you're in America and mad about me not tipping you, please feel free to direct your anger towards the GOP who wants to deregulate every industry as much as possible, ensuring there are zero laws to protect you against that kind of predatory employee exploitation or ensuring you make a decent wage that doesn't rely on the whims of strangers.

Companies do it because a non-zero number of people are fucking stupid and go "DURR WELP THEY ASKED FOR A TIP GUESS I DONE GOTTA TIP A-HYUCK" and they tip for no reason. They've calculated the monetary value of the public Good Will lost from being asked to tip against the profit generated by asking for tips despite nothing warranting tipping being provided, and have determined it's worthwhile to do. Don't fall for it.

You had me onboard until you turned it into an issue with the GOP.

Tipping has been around a long time if you weren't aware and the choices you mentioned could have been actioned many decades ago and not exclusive to today only.

Would you agree you too have TDS and if not, what's the issue then?

 

[84superchamp]

Tipping is completely of control in the USA.

I will tip a person after a job is performed if that job requires extended dealings with the customer, some degree of artistry to perform, and the experience includes some sense of entertainment, like being waited on at a restaurant, getting a haircut, or being served by a bartender who makes really good drinks, etc.

But if your job is "take the item I give you, scan it, then give it back to me" I'm not tipping. You can fuck right off asking me to tip for that shit. I'm also not "rounding up to the nearest dollar" for some foundation you made up so you get to claim my donation as your charitable donation and therefore tax write off.

If you're mad because you need tipping or else you can't make a decent living, please direct your anger toward your employer who structured your pay that way. It's not my fault your employer is exploiting you. Zooming out even further, if you're in America and mad about me not tipping you, please feel free to direct your anger towards the GOP who wants to deregulate every industry as much as possible, ensuring there are zero laws to protect you against that kind of predatory employee exploitation or ensuring you make a decent wage that doesn't rely on the whims of strangers.

Companies do it because a non-zero number of people are fucking stupid and go "DURR WELP THEY ASKED FOR A TIP GUESS I DONE GOTTA TIP A-HYUCK" and they tip for no reason. They've calculated the monetary value of the public Good Will lost from being asked to tip against the profit generated by asking for tips despite nothing warranting tipping being provided, and have determined it's worthwhile to do. Don't fall for it.

Wait......what?

 

[TheGreatGreen]

You had me onboard until you turned it into an issue with the GOP.

Tipping has been around a long time if you weren't aware and the choices you mentioned could have been actioned many decades ago and not exclusive to today only.

Would you agree you too have TDS and if not, what's the issue then?

I mean, yes I’m aware tipping has been around a long time. But I think the OP is correct and that in the last few years, has tipping become truly absurd, and severely overreached anything even remotely resembling appropriate.

However, the bottom line is that businesses gonna business, and studies have shown that simply asking people to tip even when undeserved means a significant percentage of the population is going to tip, because most people are fucking stupid and go through life in a fog just doing whatever is vaguely suggested to them that they do, which unfortunately means you and I have to also deal with it by having to navigate through what tipping culture has become almost every time we buy anything now.

I’ll give you that I probably skipped a few steps in my post above, but what I was getting at is that at this point, imo the only thing that can be done to stop it is government intervention because businesses love it, because it makes them money. But the GOP is not going to do anything against the interests of business because their whole deal is deregulating business as much as possible to let businesses get away with anything and everything possible in the pursuit of profit.

 

[NoHassle]

I mean, yes I’m aware tipping has been around a long time. But I think the OP is correct and that in the last few years, has tipping become truly absurd, and severely overreached anything even remotely resembling appropriate.

The bottom line is that business gonna business, and studies have shown that simply asking people to tip even when undeserved means a significant percentage of those people are going to tip, because most people are fucking stupid and go through life in a fog just doing whatever is vaguely suggested to them that they do, which unfortunately means you and I have to also deal with it by having to navigate through what tipping culture has become almost every time we buy anything now.

I’ll give you that I probably skipped a few steps in my post above, but what I was getting at is that at this point, imo the only thing that can be done to stop it is government intervention, and the GOP is not going to do anything about it because their whole deal is making sure to de-regulate as much as possible and let businesses get away with anything they want, unless those things fall very specifically into whatever culture war nonsense they don’t specifically like at the time, like DEI policy or something. I don’t see them putting “tipping practices” into any categories like that though.

I can understand the concern about de-regulation as a lot of it is going on but it's needed in many areas to allow and promote growth instead of strangulation but you can't hang them until they actually do it regarding labor laws and pay scales.

I'm again going to say that if they go beyond their expected service levels then of course a reward is to be 'considered' but not demanded.

Tipping was a great instrument to entice and promote extra customer care and focus but as we all know today...customer service has gone the way of the Dodo bird in most places.

Unwarranted self-entitlement is at epidemic levels and destroying societies globally. Consequences need to be actioned and followed through otherwise the destruction will be far greater than people realise or expect.

 

[84superchamp]

I can understand the concern about de-regulation as a lot of it is going on but it's needed in many areas to allow and promote growth instead of strangulation but you can't hang them until they actually do it regarding labor laws and pay scales.

I'm again going to say that if they go beyond their expected service levels then of course a reward is to be 'considered' but not demanded.

Tipping was a great instrument to entice and promote extra customer care and focus but as we all know today...customer service has gone the way of the Dodo bird in most places.

Unwarranted self-entitlement is at epidemic levels and destroying societies globally. Consequences need to be actioned and followed through otherwise the destruction will be far greater than people realise or expect.

Self-entitlement is a key. As everyone should be aware, it is rampant and creeping into many aspects of life. Tipping was an easy "entity" to invade with that thought pattern: "i did nothing to deserve it but I DESERVE it!"
Sadly, we are far from the turn-around....generations now have it in their heads.

 

[Robostyle]

Tipping is completely of control in the USA.

I will tip a person after a job is performed if that job requires extended dealings with the customer, some degree of artistry to perform, and the experience includes some sense of entertainment, like being waited on at a restaurant, getting a haircut, or being served by a bartender who makes really good drinks, etc.

But if your job is "take the item I give you, scan it, then give it back to me" I'm not tipping. You can fuck right off asking me to tip for that shit. I'm also not "rounding up to the nearest dollar" for some foundation you made up so you get to claim my donation as your charitable donation and therefore tax write off.

If you're mad because you need tipping or else you can't make a decent living, please direct your anger toward your employer who structured your pay that way. It's not my fault your employer is exploiting you. Zooming out even further, if you're in America and mad about me not tipping you, please feel free to direct your anger towards the GOP who wants to deregulate every industry as much as possible, ensuring there are zero laws to protect you against that kind of predatory employee exploitation or ensuring you make a decent wage that doesn't rely on the whims of strangers.

Companies do it because a non-zero number of people are fucking stupid and go "DURR WELP THEY ASKED FOR A TIP GUESS I DONE GOTTA TIP A-HYUCK" and they tip for no reason. They've calculated the monetary value of the public Good Will lost from being asked to tip against the profit generated by asking for tips despite nothing warranting tipping being provided, and have determined it's worthwhile to do. Don't fall for it.

So tipping is DJT's fault? The practice has been around for hundreds of years. Does DJT have a time machine?
The crazy over tipping came about during covid. At least in my area.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

So tipping is DJT's fault? The practice has been around for hundreds of years. Does DJT have a time machine?
The crazy over tipping came about during covid. At least in my area.

Hold up. Do you think I think Donald J Trump invented the entire concept of... les sais faire capitalism?

 

[Robostyle]

Hold up. Do you think I think Donald J Trump invented the entire concept of... les sais faire capitalism?

No idea what you are trying to say here.
You blamed GOP

 

[TheGreatGreen]

No idea what you are trying to say here.
You blamed GOP

Trump is not "the GOP."
I also did not say the entire concept of tipping is the GOP's fault.
I also did not say the entire concept of tipping is bad.
"Les sais faire capitalism" means "capitalism under no regulation."

I said tipping culture is out of control, and that in my opinion the only way to stop it now is through governmental action / regulation, and that the GOP will do nothing to help any of us here because it is the GOP's commitment to eliminating business regulation that is allowing these businesses to run wild with these ridiculous tipping practices we're seeing lately.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Hey there goes @Floyd Eye dropping drive-by laugh emojis at things he doesn't like but doesn't have the ability to articulate against.

Funny you use the word articulate. Your screed reads like a 5th grader wrote it.

I’m not sure what would make you think I’d be interested in wasting my time responding to it frankly. You clearly have problems that can’t be solved by a response from me.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Trump is not "the GOP."
I also did not say the entire concept of tipping is the GOP's fault.
I also did not say the entire concept of tipping is bad.
"Les sais faire capitalism" means "capitalism under no regulation."

I said tipping culture is out of control, and that in my opinion the only way to stop it now is through governmental action / regulation, and that the GOP will do nothing to help any of us here because it is the GOP's commitment to eliminating business regulation that is allowing these businesses to run wild with these ridiculous tipping practices we're seeing lately.

I was with you up until the point of turning it political and pointing the finger at the GOP. No, you didn't say the entire concept of tipping is the GOP's fault. You did however blame the GOP by pointing at them as the core reason for predatory practices and in turn insinuating they are responsible for the current tipping culture. This is what you said that I'm pointing to...

Zooming out even further, if you're in America and mad about me not tipping you, please feel free to direct your anger towards the GOP who wants to deregulate every industry as much as possible, ensuring there are zero laws to protect you against that kind of predatory employee exploitation or ensuring you make a decent wage that doesn't rely on the whims of strangers.

I find this an extremely far stretch to pin current tipping culture on a political party. It's a pretty far stretch to turn it political in general. The closest you can get is antidotal evidence of the political party those who are wanting tips for doing nothing and created part of the mess align with. Even that to a certain extent is a stretch.

Regardless, you can't blame any political party for current tipping culture and government regulation is most certainly not the way to help things. If anything that would make it worse because it would pull away from the free market system and ultimately regulate the service industry into the dirt. Pretty much like it has done to other business sectors. On top of that there are already wage regulations in place to prevent predatory exploitation practices, they're just not being enforced properly anymore; that is assuming they're being reported to begin with.

From what I've seen the tipping culture started getting out of hand around 2020 with 2 key pieces driving it.

The first one is COVID and people turning towards the gig economy and food delivery services like grub hub and door dash. Customarily you'd give the pizza delivery person a couple of bucks as a tip if they got it to you quickly. When the gig economy took off, delivery drivers got it in their head they were owed a huge tip just for doing the base job. They even got to the point of expecting that big tip before they even performed the service otherwise your order would just sit on the table with no one taking it. This same thing expanded to grocery deliveries and such to the point delivery drivers were holding the stuff you bough hostage. We've all seen the tictack videos of some entitled person bragging.... "I didn't get a tip up front so now I have free food/groceries." Obviously this is not about politics and more about shitty workers expecting something for nothing. Though that mindset does tend to align with a particular ideology that's all about free handouts.

The other portion of the problem is when those small business point of sale systems; like square, upgraded and tipping requests were built into the system. From my understanding you can set the tip percentages it presents, but can't outright bypass it. So now you have retail shops with a POS system automatically prompting for a tip whether they want to or not. The shopkeep could make a note to ignore the tip prompt and put zero, but I think this one falls more on the customer as the core problem. As you had mentioned, people will mindlessly tip or be too weak willed and feel socially pressured to leave a tip when prompted. Yeah, you can put minor blame on the shopkeep. Can you really blame the shopkeep for not stopping idiots from giving them extra money even if they're told not to tip. And again, this is nothing where you can place blame on politics.

Now take those two concepts, put them together, and you have where we are now. Point of sale and apps automatically prompting for a tip and that crappy working pointing at the screen pressuring for a tip for doing their base job. Or the gig economy deliver driver knowing the app prompts for a tip and holding shit hostage unless they get one up front. And the customer without the fortitude to press the no tip button or refrain from tipping when it's not warranted.

The core problem is human behavior, not the GOP as you're suggesting. On one side you have shitty workers demanding a tip for just doing their basic job. Then you have the customer side too chicken shit to just press the no tip button when a tip is not warranted. No amount of government regulation is going to fix that. Before all of this mess started there have been wage regulations and such that worked just fine for decades when being properly enforced and the service industry was doing just fine that entire time. Like I had mentioned in my OP, the only thing that could help on the "regulation" side is to bump the minimum waitstaff wage up a few bucks. Somewhere above $2.13/hr but not so much to mess with the business margins too much; like $4-5/hr would probably be good. Outside of that it falls on social norms and behavior to fix the out of control tipping culture, not government regulations.