Tube talk....

Racerxrated

Well-known member
Just some tube observations after a few weeks of tube rolling. My MC100 came with JJ EL34s and 12AX7s throughout. Sounded killer of course, but I have a nice stash of pre and power tubes so I put them to the test...
These are not in order of preference.

1. Vintage Mullard XF2s-these are used but strong tubes, and sound a bunch clearer and organic at volume. Big step up from the JJs. Not matched but biased up from 30-34ma. Great upper mids but the low mids are also prominent.

2. Siemens (from the 70s I believe)-Great tubes and share the same attributes as the Mullard but a tad bit more open and less congested at volume, biased between 32-34ma. Also used but strong.

3. Winged C-Most open sounding of the 4, and has this great upper mid snarl that the others don't quite get. Fantastic.

4. GT EL34LS-Best low end of the 4, but is very open and 3D with great mids. Not to be confused with the JJEL34L, which do not have the same 3D effect of the GT. I know they are supposed to be the same but there are obvious sonic differences. These have the larger heat wings vs the smaller ones that I see now on most websites, so this tube may well be out of production. Which really sucks.

I would put the Winged C at the top, followed by the Siemens and GT, Mullard 4th. But all 4 are really great and the differences are very minimal at best.

Pre tubes...

1. JJs throughout...sounds good of course, this is what Rick uses and no complaints here.

2. Vintage Mullard in V1-V3, Tungsram in V4-Very full and more open sounding, improvement overall from the JJs. More detail in the mids.

3. Vintage Mullard in V1-V2, Chinese 6n4 in V3, Tungsram in V4-More hair on the highs, yet even better upper mids. This is the combo for me.

After the last combo I stopped since it sounded so damn good. I don't think this amp would sound anything less than great no matter what tubes one tries, as long as the Wizard doesn't fry your power tubes due to the high plate voltage.
 

MetalHeadMike

Well-known member
Good info dude :thumbsup:

I agree with your comment on most any tubes probably sounding good in these amps. Mine's got JJ E34L in it which I'm REALLY digging. It's also got all JJ preamp tubes which I only care for in certain amps, and this is clearly one of em.

Eventually I'll try some different tubes purely out of curiosity, but right now I have no complaints.
 

Racerxrated

Well-known member
MetalHeadMike":1f3ofnvp said:
Good info dude :thumbsup:

I agree with your comment on most any tubes probably sounding good in these amps. Mine's got JJ E34L in it which I'm REALLY digging. It's also got all JJ preamp tubes which I only care for in certain amps, and this is clearly one of em.

Eventually I'll try some different tubes purely out of curiosity, but right now I have no complaints.
Mine sounded amazeballs at first fire up so no need to tube roll....but since I have a pretty big stash, why not right?
And, I had a built in excuse to unleash it to the wife.."cmon, the guys are asking for me to try ALL these tubes in different combinations..it won't take that long...."

:LOL: :LOL:
 

MetalHeadMike

Well-known member
Racerxrated":28t5e3vk said:
MetalHeadMike":28t5e3vk said:
Good info dude :thumbsup:

I agree with your comment on most any tubes probably sounding good in these amps. Mine's got JJ E34L in it which I'm REALLY digging. It's also got all JJ preamp tubes which I only care for in certain amps, and this is clearly one of em.

Eventually I'll try some different tubes purely out of curiosity, but right now I have no complaints.
Mine sounded amazeballs at first fire up so no need to tube roll....but since I have a pretty big stash, why not right?
And, I had a built in excuse to unleash it to the wife.."cmon, the guys are asking for me to try ALL these tubes in different combinations..it won't take that long...."

:LOL: :LOL:

Gotta have the justification ready for those wives ;) I work on my justifications regularly; always coming up with good ones, but she's totally on to me after the last few months of amp splurging :aww:

I'm impressed with the E34L. Really like the aggressive mids and low end chunk in this amp. Might try the Kt77 in there at some point since I have a quad. Want to try some tungsol or chinese 12ax7s, and then I heard a 12AT7, or maybe it was 12AU7, is a good one for the loop slot? Don't think it sounds bad as is but wouldn't mind experimenting.
 

Racerxrated

Well-known member
MetalHeadMike":1d35n1oh said:
Racerxrated":1d35n1oh said:
MetalHeadMike":1d35n1oh said:
Good info dude :thumbsup:

I agree with your comment on most any tubes probably sounding good in these amps. Mine's got JJ E34L in it which I'm REALLY digging. It's also got all JJ preamp tubes which I only care for in certain amps, and this is clearly one of em.

Eventually I'll try some different tubes purely out of curiosity, but right now I have no complaints.
Mine sounded amazeballs at first fire up so no need to tube roll....but since I have a pretty big stash, why not right?
And, I had a built in excuse to unleash it to the wife.."cmon, the guys are asking for me to try ALL these tubes in different combinations..it won't take that long...."

:LOL: :LOL:

Gotta have the justification ready for those wives ;) I work on my justifications regularly; always coming up with good ones, but she's totally on to me after the last few months of amp splurging :aww:

I'm impressed with the E34L. Really like the aggressive mids and low end chunk in this amp. Might try the Kt77 in there at some point since I have a quad. Want to try some tungsol or chinese 12ax7s, and then I heard a 12AT7, or maybe it was 12AU7, is a good one for the loop slot? Don't think it sounds bad as is but wouldn't mind experimenting.
I don't have a loop in mine, but I do believe for the best results guys use a 12au7 for the most transparent loop. The EL34L is basically the same as the GT EL34LS but the GT has larger heat wings. They are definitely a step up in the 3D feeling at higher volume and still have that huge low end. I would try to locate a quad of the older GTs as the newer batches don't have the old version's larger heat wings and don't sound as good. When I had the 50w MTL last year it came with the JJ EL34L and I bought a new pair of GT EL34LS and it was a definite improvement.
 

ChurchHill

New member
Racerxrated":1w8ytgml said:
[…] as long as the Wizard doesn't fry your power tubes due to the high plate voltage.
Thanks for posting this! I think it's always interesting to hear what tubes work in what amps. I've got a decent stash, too, and love to experiment.

Just curious, but how high is the plate voltage? I've got a couple of amps that are over 500v and I think it definitely contributes to fast attack and punch. Unfortunately, none are Wizards... yet... ;)
 

MetalHeadMike

Well-known member
Racerxrated":1zegkdwx said:
MetalHeadMike":1zegkdwx said:
Racerxrated":1zegkdwx said:
MetalHeadMike":1zegkdwx said:
Good info dude :thumbsup:

I agree with your comment on most any tubes probably sounding good in these amps. Mine's got JJ E34L in it which I'm REALLY digging. It's also got all JJ preamp tubes which I only care for in certain amps, and this is clearly one of em.

Eventually I'll try some different tubes purely out of curiosity, but right now I have no complaints.
Mine sounded amazeballs at first fire up so no need to tube roll....but since I have a pretty big stash, why not right?
And, I had a built in excuse to unleash it to the wife.."cmon, the guys are asking for me to try ALL these tubes in different combinations..it won't take that long...."

:LOL: :LOL:

Gotta have the justification ready for those wives ;) I work on my justifications regularly; always coming up with good ones, but she's totally on to me after the last few months of amp splurging :aww:

I'm impressed with the E34L. Really like the aggressive mids and low end chunk in this amp. Might try the Kt77 in there at some point since I have a quad. Want to try some tungsol or chinese 12ax7s, and then I heard a 12AT7, or maybe it was 12AU7, is a good one for the loop slot? Don't think it sounds bad as is but wouldn't mind experimenting.
I don't have a loop in mine, but I do believe for the best results guys use a 12au7 for the most transparent loop. The EL34L is basically the same as the GT EL34LS but the GT has larger heat wings. They are definitely a step up in the 3D feeling at higher volume and still have that huge low end. I would try to locate a quad of the older GTs as the newer batches don't have the old version's larger heat wings and don't sound as good. When I had the 50w MTL last year it came with the JJ EL34L and I bought a new pair of GT EL34LS and it was a definite improvement.

We talking the same tubes? The JJ in this Wizard are E34L. Not sure JJ make an EL34L?
 

Racerxrated

Well-known member
MetalHeadMike":2tzp8be6 said:
Racerxrated":2tzp8be6 said:
MetalHeadMike":2tzp8be6 said:
Racerxrated":2tzp8be6 said:
MetalHeadMike":2tzp8be6 said:
Good info dude :thumbsup:

I agree with your comment on most any tubes probably sounding good in these amps. Mine's got JJ E34L in it which I'm REALLY digging. It's also got all JJ preamp tubes which I only care for in certain amps, and this is clearly one of em.

Eventually I'll try some different tubes purely out of curiosity, but right now I have no complaints.
Mine sounded amazeballs at first fire up so no need to tube roll....but since I have a pretty big stash, why not right?
And, I had a built in excuse to unleash it to the wife.."cmon, the guys are asking for me to try ALL these tubes in different combinations..it won't take that long...."

:LOL: :LOL:

Gotta have the justification ready for those wives ;) I work on my justifications regularly; always coming up with good ones, but she's totally on to me after the last few months of amp splurging :aww:

I'm impressed with the E34L. Really like the aggressive mids and low end chunk in this amp. Might try the Kt77 in there at some point since I have a quad. Want to try some tungsol or chinese 12ax7s, and then I heard a 12AT7, or maybe it was 12AU7, is a good one for the loop slot? Don't think it sounds bad as is but wouldn't mind experimenting.
I don't have a loop in mine, but I do believe for the best results guys use a 12au7 for the most transparent loop. The EL34L is basically the same as the GT EL34LS but the GT has larger heat wings. They are definitely a step up in the 3D feeling at higher volume and still have that huge low end. I would try to locate a quad of the older GTs as the newer batches don't have the old version's larger heat wings and don't sound as good. When I had the 50w MTL last year it came with the JJ EL34L and I bought a new pair of GT EL34LS and it was a definite improvement.

We talking the same tubes? The JJ in this Wizard are E34L. Not sure JJ make an EL34L?
AFAIK the JJ EL34L is the same as the Groove Tube EL34LS with the one difference being the heat wings are larger/taller is the GT version. But, the GT version now come with the same smaller wings as the JJ. Squarehead just mentioned that in a thread a couple weeks ago on RT. So the LS that guys talk about sounding so good in Wizards is now a discontinued tube unfortunately.
The 50w MTL I had came with the JJ EL34L. I picked up a duet of GT EL34LS and they were a definite improvement on an already great tone.
 

Racerxrated

Well-known member
ChurchHill":1f4gcavj said:
Racerxrated":1f4gcavj said:
[…] as long as the Wizard doesn't fry your power tubes due to the high plate voltage.
Thanks for posting this! I think it's always interesting to hear what tubes work in what amps. I've got a decent stash, too, and love to experiment.

Just curious, but how high is the plate voltage? I've got a couple of amps that are over 500v and I think it definitely contributes to fast attack and punch. Unfortunately, none are Wizards... yet... ;)
I haven't measured mine but I've read they are in the 480-500 range. Gotta be careful with power tubes that can handle the voltage. I have some vintage tubes that will handle it, but if I need to find new production I'll need to read up on which brands can handle the power.
 

ChurchHill

New member
FWIW, I've got some Gold Lion KT77s in two amps whose plates are over 500v, one is 525vdc and the other, IIRC, is around 505v. I haven't had any problems, yet, but they've only been in a couple of months. Honestly, it's the screens I'm worried about, but that is a lot of plate voltage for modern production tubes.
 

MAGE7

New member
AFAIK the JJ EL34L is the same as the Groove Tube EL34LS with the one difference being the heat wings are larger/taller is the GT version. But, the GT version now come with the same smaller wings as the JJ. Squarehead just mentioned that in a thread a couple weeks ago on RT. So the LS that guys talk about sounding so good in Wizards is now a discontinued tube unfortunately.
The 50w MTL I had came with the JJ EL34L. I picked up a duet of GT EL34LS and they were a definite improvement on an already great tone.
sounds like rick is skipping on tubes ?
 

Racerxrated

Well-known member
sounds like rick is skipping on tubes ?
No, I wouldn't say that. The LS that I like, has been discontinued a few years ago and has been replaced by the El34L. Difference being the heat wings are smaller on the EL34L. The JJ EL34L is still the best choice for the Wizards, they can take the 500+ plate voltage the Wizards have. No other current production EL34 can handle that voltage....AFAIK.
 

Joruke

New member
A word to the wise from the man himself a few weeks ago regarding tube rolling -
"With all do respect, you haven't even received the amp yet and you want to mess with it.
The amp is fine as it is and I suggest you do not mess with it in any way or you will loose the warranty."
 

Bash_Man

Active member
I am curious as to how the JJ E83CC preamp tubes would sound in Wizard amps. They sound different than standard JJ ECC83 tubes.
 

lessarti

Active member
For whatever it is worth, I got JJ KT77's in my MC II, sounds great and I actually prefer them to E34L's. I have JJ E34L's in my MTL and am very tempted to get some KT77 for it too.
 

* velcro-fly *

Well-known member
A word to the wise from the man himself a few weeks ago regarding tube rolling -
"With all do respect, you haven't even received the amp yet and you want to mess with it.
The amp is fine as it is and I suggest you do not mess with it in any way or you will loose the warranty."
Hey Joe :rock: Gonna throw in the NOS tubes you sent me and see if I can "void my warranty" :ROFLMAO: MC25 is crushing it, gig #4 on it tomorrow night.
 
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