UFC:104 Spoiler inside

[IHateRap]

Shogun got robbed.
BIG TIME!

What a shame.

 

[Code001]

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=56378

 

[IHateRap]

https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=56378

I was so mad after hearing the decision, I needed to vent somewhere fast.

 

[Tone Merchant]

that was the worst decision ive ever seen. I thought rua won 4 of the 5 rounds. I wish they would interview the judges after the fight and let them explain their decision. I love Machida, but he got a beat down

 

[sixstrings]

See the first Machida/Shogun thread. Machida is very hard to hit solid. Even when Shogun was hitting him, Machida was still in motion. Pretty much the only solid kicks were leg kicks. Machida also lands a lot of quick little shots that most people don't see. You have to watch the replay in Machida fights to really see what happened.

In my experience fighting and training, it's the quick little shots you land that do the most damage. There were a couple of times I thought he had Shogun in trouble but he didn't follow up. In the long run, Machida's legs were jacked up. Still, it could have gone either way. Like I said though, you have to watch the replay.

In any case, I love both fighters and they both fought their hearts out. Rematch is a must, but I want to see one of them beat Anderson Silva's ass first.

 

[Crunch Master]

Get educated by my post here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=56378

 

[sixstrings]

Get educated by my post here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=56378

Yeah, uh whatever... and I've got some ocean front property in Kansas I'll sell to you. It was a close fight and Shogun performed really well, but it wasn't convincing enough to the judges to strip Machida of his title. There will be an immediate rematch. I'm still a fan of both fighters and I still think Machida is the better fighter, Shogun just came in with the better game plan.

Honestly I wanted to see Shogun fight Anderson Silva more than Machida. I still feel the same way about the rematch. I'd rather see Shogun get a shot at Silva right off the bat.

 

[IHateRap]

Get educated by my post here:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=56378

I think Shogun's win was completely decisive. So that means he got robbed.

 

[Tone Merchant]

ive watched the fight 3 times now. if the little quick punches cause the damage that Rua must of been landing those also. Considering Machida had a bloody nose, cut lip and his legs had to ice between every round, something must of been hitting him. Rua barley had a mark on him

See the first Machida/Shogun thread. Machida is very hard to hit solid. Even when Shogun was hitting him, Machida was still in motion. Pretty much the only solid kicks were leg kicks. Machida also lands a lot of quick little shots that most people don't see. You have to watch the replay in Machida fights to really see what happened.

In my experience fighting and training, it's the quick little shots you land that do the most damage. There were a couple of times I thought he had Shogun in trouble but he didn't follow up. In the long run, Machida's legs were jacked up. Still, it could have gone either way. Like I said though, you have to watch the replay.

In any case, I love both fighters and they both fought their hearts out. Rematch is a must, but I want to see one of them beat Anderson Silva's ass first.

 

[Audioholic]

ive watched the fight 3 times now. if the little quick punches cause the damage that Rua must of been landing those also. Considering Machida had a bloody nose, cut lip and his legs had to ice between every round, something must of been hitting him. Rua barley had a mark on him

See the first Machida/Shogun thread. Machida is very hard to hit solid. Even when Shogun was hitting him, Machida was still in motion. Pretty much the only solid kicks were leg kicks. Machida also lands a lot of quick little shots that most people don't see. You have to watch the replay in Machida fights to really see what happened.

In my experience fighting and training, it's the quick little shots you land that do the most damage. There were a couple of times I thought he had Shogun in trouble but he didn't follow up. In the long run, Machida's legs were jacked up. Still, it could have gone either way. Like I said though, you have to watch the replay.

In any case, I love both fighters and they both fought their hearts out. Rematch is a must, but I want to see one of them beat Anderson Silva's ass first.

Rua's ribs were just as red, and he had a nice sore on his head post fight interview, both fighters inflicted damage, though machida got the worst of it on his legs. Rua Never got the take down when he tried, was not very successfull in the clinch, so all of his offensive moves did not really have much success. No clear winner imo, and Rua did not do enough to strip the title. While I understand that may upset some people, niether fighter was the clear aggressor, and many times machida landed more in the exchanges if you count and watch closely. Rua's approach to not be offensive (as he said was his plan) was a good one, but it won't win decisions. Machida however should of pressed the fight more. I was dissapointed in both fighters as they just let the time run out at the end of the rounds. No clear winner imo, and Rua did not do enough to be dominate. You can't win fights with single leg kicks here and there. Rua should of grown a pair and went in for a knockout imo. Machida should of as well.

While this desicion will go down in infamy, I am fine with it, I truly think it was more of a draw then anything, and on the rematch, something different needs to happen

 

[Audioholic]

What people need to understand is that Dana white and the ufc have NOTHING to do with the judging, they are a completly different organization, the athletic commision, they have no say in anything UFC and visa versa, so they are not out to make anyone a poster boy, they called it as they saw it, machida won fair and square. Usuaually to strip a title, you have to earn it, and Rua didn't do enough apparently in the judges eyes. Like it or not, it has nothing to do with the UFC bottom line.

 

[sixstrings]

ive watched the fight 3 times now. if the little quick punches cause the damage that Rua must of been landing those also. Considering Machida had a bloody nose, cut lip and his legs had to ice between every round, something must of been hitting him. Rua barley had a mark on him

See the first Machida/Shogun thread. Machida is very hard to hit solid. Even when Shogun was hitting him, Machida was still in motion. Pretty much the only solid kicks were leg kicks. Machida also lands a lot of quick little shots that most people don't see. You have to watch the replay in Machida fights to really see what happened.

In my experience fighting and training, it's the quick little shots you land that do the most damage. There were a couple of times I thought he had Shogun in trouble but he didn't follow up. In the long run, Machida's legs were jacked up. Still, it could have gone either way. Like I said though, you have to watch the replay.

In any case, I love both fighters and they both fought their hearts out. Rematch is a must, but I want to see one of them beat Anderson Silva's ass first.

Looks can be deceiving. The cuts chould have easily been from the angle of the blow and the edges of the glove seams. The cut lip looked like it was a result of the thumb nail.

You can't judge damage necessarily from appearances. I tell you that you can hit a man extremely hard without leaving marks and it can be very injurous. I've seen the replays and Shogun did take some hard shots to the head. He has a hell of a chin but there were a couple of times when Shogun was in trouble but Machida failed to follow up.

I trained with a renowned Taekwondo grandmaster once and he was showing me a strike to the lower abdomen. I felt the strike throughout my entire midsection. For a couple of days there was a slight pain when urinating and defnitely a lot of soreness, but not a mark on me. It has a lot to do with the accuracy and speed of the strike. It's the speed and accuracy that does more damage than anything.

I too watched the replays and Machida landed a lot of short straight lefts and knees when Shogun was coming in. It was definitely a close fight, but Machida did win most of the exchanges. Machida won on points fair and square, and it's debatable whether Shogun did the most damage. I'm sure both fighters felt it. At the post-fight press conference, Shogun's face actually looked more swollen than Machida's. Machida looked cut, but not swollen.

It was fair enough. Only a rematch will tell.

 

[Audioholic]

ive watched the fight 3 times now. if the little quick punches cause the damage that Rua must of been landing those also. Considering Machida had a bloody nose, cut lip and his legs had to ice between every round, something must of been hitting him. Rua barley had a mark on him

See the first Machida/Shogun thread. Machida is very hard to hit solid. Even when Shogun was hitting him, Machida was still in motion. Pretty much the only solid kicks were leg kicks. Machida also lands a lot of quick little shots that most people don't see. You have to watch the replay in Machida fights to really see what happened.

In my experience fighting and training, it's the quick little shots you land that do the most damage. There were a couple of times I thought he had Shogun in trouble but he didn't follow up. In the long run, Machida's legs were jacked up. Still, it could have gone either way. Like I said though, you have to watch the replay.

In any case, I love both fighters and they both fought their hearts out. Rematch is a must, but I want to see one of them beat Anderson Silva's ass first.

Looks can be deceiving. The cuts chould have easily been from the angle of the blow and the edges of the glove seams. The cut lip looked like it was a result of the thumb nail.

You can't judge damage necessarily from appearances. I tell you that you can hit a man extremely hard without leaving marks and it can be very injurous. I've seen the replays and Shogun did take some hard shots to the head. He has a hell of a chin but there were a couple of times when Shogun was in trouble but Machida failed to follow up.

I trained with a renowned Taekwondo grandmaster once and he was showing me a strike to the lower abdomen. I felt the strike throughout my entire midsection. For a couple of days there was a slight pain when urinating and defnitely a lot of soreness, but not a mark on me. It has a lot to do with the accuracy and speed of the strike. It's the speed and accuracy that does more damage than anything.

I too watched the replays and Machida landed a lot of short straight lefts and knees when Shogun was coming in. It was definitely a close fight, but Machida did win most of the exchanges. Machida won on points fair and square, and it's debatable whether Shogun did the most damage. I'm sure both fighters felt it. At the post-fight press conference, Shogun's face actually looked more swollen than Machida's. Machida looked cut, but not swollen.

It was fair enough. Only a rematch will tell.

agreed. I think Machida had the better of the exchanges, when shogun when in, machida countered, shogun never successfully implemented a take down, stuffed everytime. It was basically a karate point fight, which is a shame. I think the rematch will be much better, and only then will we have a clear winner. Both fighters need to step up next time.

 

[sixstrings]

ive watched the fight 3 times now. if the little quick punches cause the damage that Rua must of been landing those also. Considering Machida had a bloody nose, cut lip and his legs had to ice between every round, something must of been hitting him. Rua barley had a mark on him

See the first Machida/Shogun thread. Machida is very hard to hit solid. Even when Shogun was hitting him, Machida was still in motion. Pretty much the only solid kicks were leg kicks. Machida also lands a lot of quick little shots that most people don't see. You have to watch the replay in Machida fights to really see what happened.

In my experience fighting and training, it's the quick little shots you land that do the most damage. There were a couple of times I thought he had Shogun in trouble but he didn't follow up. In the long run, Machida's legs were jacked up. Still, it could have gone either way. Like I said though, you have to watch the replay.

In any case, I love both fighters and they both fought their hearts out. Rematch is a must, but I want to see one of them beat Anderson Silva's ass first.

Looks can be deceiving. The cuts chould have easily been from the angle of the blow and the edges of the glove seams. The cut lip looked like it was a result of the thumb nail.

You can't judge damage necessarily from appearances. I tell you that you can hit a man extremely hard without leaving marks and it can be very injurous. I've seen the replays and Shogun did take some hard shots to the head. He has a hell of a chin but there were a couple of times when Shogun was in trouble but Machida failed to follow up.

I trained with a renowned Taekwondo grandmaster once and he was showing me a strike to the lower abdomen. I felt the strike throughout my entire midsection. For a couple of days there was a slight pain when urinating and defnitely a lot of soreness, but not a mark on me. It has a lot to do with the accuracy and speed of the strike. It's the speed and accuracy that does more damage than anything.

I too watched the replays and Machida landed a lot of short straight lefts and knees when Shogun was coming in. It was definitely a close fight, but Machida did win most of the exchanges. Machida won on points fair and square, and it's debatable whether Shogun did the most damage. I'm sure both fighters felt it. At the post-fight press conference, Shogun's face actually looked more swollen than Machida's. Machida looked cut, but not swollen.

It was fair enough. Only a rematch will tell.

agreed. I think Machida had the better of the exchanges, when shogun when in, machida countered, shogun never successfully implemented a take down, stuffed everytime. It was basically a karate point fight, which is a shame. I think the rematch will be much better, and only then will we have a clear winner. Both fighters need to step up next time.

Same here. I think I can agree with your posts on this fight. I think a rematch would be much more interesting because one of them will be pushing harder the next time. I'm telling you though, we need to see a Machida Silva or Shogun Silva fight first!

 

[Loudness250]

I think Shogun deserved the Nod. I would not call it a robbery but I think it's enough to call for a rematch because it was a close decision that I think Rua should have got the decision in. And I like Machida but I just thought Rua did a little more and showed more dominance than did Machida.

 

[JackBootedThug]

i think machida needs to drink more piss for the rematch.

 

[sixstrings]

I think Shogun deserved the Nod. I would not call it a robbery but I think it's enough to call for a rematch because it was a close decision that I think Rua should have got the decision in. And I like Machida but I just thought Rua did a little more and showed more dominance than did Machida.

Again, I think for the average viewer it's very deceptive. Most people don't know exactly what to look for. From the look of it, Shogun was the aggressor. However, I can't recal Machida being so aggressive right off the bat like that too. Machida is a counter striker mainly, so people look at the aggression of Shogun and think he's got all the edge, but they miss all the things Machida does. He's so fast and the public generally doesn't know that the most damaging strikes are the short quick ones that you don't see.

All I can say is watch the replay a couple of times with an open mind and decide for yourself. No one can argue that it wasn't a very close fight. It could have gone either way.

 

[Bob Savage]

Guys, sixstrings is a real fighter and stuff. Just listen, and he'll learn you all somethin'. Just take a look at his post below. He walks the walk.

Again, I think for the average viewer it's very deceptive. Most people don't know exactly what to look for.

I agree that there is an "assumption of ignorance," etc. in these types of debates but it depends on who you're talking to. If you're talking to someone with the training and ring experience, then there's going to be a gap in knowledge between them and the people they're talking to.

I've heard a lot of people talk in the past. I've heard monstrous looking muscle heads talk about martial arts and fighting and how people don't know this and that, but I'm the first one to say "let's put on the gloves." As much as I like discussing these things, I much much prefer actually going in and doing it. 99.9% of the time, all the talk is just talk. In fact, I'm known for that at the school I train at because it's happened before. People were intimidated by this guy who looked really strong and fast. When it came time to put on the gloves, he couldn't handle the power and accuracy. I wasn't even trying to prove a point or anything. I just wanted to spar him because I wanted to face the fear. He quit shortly after and never returned.

I've known people who have trained for years, and by the look of their solid technique and agility, I thought they would be a force in a real fight. Most of the time those things go away and they fail to not only maintain their technique, but they can't take the strikes. When you are in the shit, and the shit is raining down hard on you, that's when you know where you stand among men.

You can go to gyms and see muscular and fit looking people who walk with a tough swagger, nightclubs where the bouncers look and act like forces to be reckoned with, and even convicts in prison who look like they can eat you for breakfast, but 99.9% of the time, they're all clueless of how powerful you are compared to them. They are completely oblivious to what you are capable of doing to them should the frightful occassion ever arise.

Then all of their strength and conditioning and street fighting means very little because they never before have met with your discipline, fierceness, speed and sheer power.

People talk about Brock Lesnar like he's the most powerful man on earth, but they just don't know. He is a strong man, but not a real powerful striker. People assume because he's an immense guy that he's so powerful, but they don't know the difference between strength and power. He's not a powerful fighter. He's just very strong and explosive. I would be willing to bet a great deal that Machida or Silva could take him out.

So yes, talk is just talk. If you want to learn something, listen not just to people who have been in the ring, but people who have transcended the mere wrestler, boxer, brawler levels and become masters of the fighting arts. Those are the people I'd rather listen to than anyone else.

It's so easy for the fickle public to criticize Machida or even Shogun, but they are totally clueless about what it's like when you have such skilled fighters facing each other in a cage in front of millions and millions of people. So people can criticize either fighter all they want, but I know what I know and I won't buy into any of it.

Take a look at the replay and come to your own conclusion. It was a close fight. I can tell you though that Machida lands a lot of strikes that most people just don't see. You have to look for it. He had Shogun in trouble a few times. Shogun wore down Machida's legs, but Machida did win most of the exchanges. That's what made the difference in the fight. I'm not going to sit here and blame shitty judging or whatever.

I applaud Shogun for making a comeback, coming in with a great game plan, and showing the heart of a champion. I applaud Machida for facing adversity the first time and overcoming it. Both men are top echelon fighters and that's all there is to it.

 

[Shawn Lutz]

I thought he won too but I guess it wasnt convincingly enough for the judges to hand him the belt. To take the title from the champ you really have to kick his ass in the UFC. Actually was a boring main event fight imho, I hate bouts that are decided by decisions .

 

[Bob Savage]

I thought he won too but I guess it wasnt convincingly enough for the judges to hand him the belt. To take the title from the champ you really have to kick his ass in the UFC. Actually was a boring main event fight imho, I hate bouts that are decided by decisions .

Regardless if the outcome, I actually enjoyed the fight and thought it was a great matchup. Not a brawl by any means, but very enjoyable in my opinion.