US Govt can seize musicians guitars????

[Jimmie]

Can any of us really believe, let alone argue, that its somehow accceptable to deplete what little is left of the world's remaining old growth forest?

Regardless if the final product is a $1Million hand carved rose wood bed being sold in China or a Custom Shop Les Paul that Gibson can and would exact a pretty penny beyond what most of us reading this thread could afford, we first need to understand a very important principle that all corporations abide by to actualize their manifest destiny; its only against the law if you get caught.

This isn't an Obama or a Bush thing, or an America, home of the exploiters thing, its a global problem fueled by "mankind" thinking that some how, the spoils of the earth belong to us, regardless of the cause and effects this global-based appetite for items made from exotic woods play today and into future generations to come.

This collective, ravenous apetite on the world's dwindling precious resources has surpassed any chance for sustainability, the only remaining hope, is to punish the exploiters, strengthen efforts to protect what's left and then initiate restoration before its gone.

http://www.slideshare.net/prettyzoely/g ... ds-5720932

 

[killertone]

Holy shit there are some ignorant people in this world. Fucking sad.

 

[Chris O]

So now the Enviro-Left's ridiculous laws of unintended consequence becomes a commentary on Fox News? Wow... I see exactly why our nation continues it's downward spiral. Lose the blinders, people.

It's amazing how many forgone conclusions have been drawn here by people who see ONE THING, and make a judgement without actually bothering to see what has been written.

I give up. This nation is beyond repair.

 

[guitarmike]

In all seriousness, why wouldn't the harvesters plant more trees? They want to make money long term not just one time. If the wood is so special there, start a program of reproduction like we do here in the states. I understand the "old growth" philosophy but a forest fire started by a lightning strike can and does wipe out old growth all the time. To Jimmies point, I agree we need to manage this since the people and governments where the wood is seem to be incapable of doing so on their own. Replant and manage and there will be no shortage of wood.

 

[FourT6and2]

lol whatever.

I've flown in and out of the country numerous times with a PRS that has Brazilian Rosewood. What is TSA or Customs gonna do? You think some airport worker knows the difference between Maple and Mahogany, let alone Brazilian Rosewood and Indian Rosewood? What are they gonna do, take a core sample of your guitar? lololololol morons. "Sir, this Gibson Gold Top might have illegal wood under that paint. We're going to have to strip the paint off and test it before you can fly." Gimme a break.

The issue is at the supply level, not the consumer level. That's why they're going after manufacturers, distributors, and the importers who get the wood in the first place.

 

[thenine]

At the end of the day, it's none of the government's fucking business what I choose to buy and it comes down to a personal issue between self and wood. Your tax dollars hard at work, while shit roams the streets and people are living under an overpass. Fuck the US government.

If you are afraid of libertarians at least vote conservative this year. Liberal democrats are destroying our country. Just look at the debt we've incurred since January 2009.

I don't want to wade too far into these waters, as I am not even American so my interest is solely related to the knock-on impacts the U.S. economic situation has on Canada.

However, I don't think it is fair to point at the Democrats and blame the debt and deficits of the past few years squarely on them.

Two terms of Republican rule under George Bush left a legacy of debt. Multiple wars (still being financed by the issuance of U.S. debt), lax regulations around the financial sector, decreases in Corporate taxes and taxes on the rich, etc. Then, layer on top of Bush's legacy the world financial crisis in 2008 (somewhat attributable to the lax financial regulations Bush oversaw for two terms!) and a significant oil spill in the Gulf, and Obama inherited an absolute economic shit show that was entirely not of his doing.

I am NOT defending Obama here at all. I can't point to a lot of good that his come from his first term. However, to try to blame the debt that has been building since 2008/2009 on Obama is just not right. He has to pay for the wars that the Republicans started, and he had no choice but to put in place a significant economic stimulus after the 2008 crisis in order to try to kick start the economy (the Republicans would have had to do the exact same thing - regardless of the nonsense they argue and the games they play in the House and Senate).

Holy smokes! I dont want to be too OT here but,...

Are you aware that the Dems controlled the House and the Senate since the 110th Congress? Are you aware that Barney Frank was chairman of the House Financial Services Committee since 2007? No choice but to put in place a stimulus??? WTF???

 

[Mailman1971]

lol whatever.

You think some airport worker knows the difference between Maple and Mahogany, let alone Brazilian Rosewood and Indian Rosewood? What are they gonna do, take a core sample of your guitar? lololololol morons. "Sir, this Gibson Gold Top might have illegal wood under that paint. We're going to have to strip the paint off and test it before you can fly." Gimme a break.

I can see them taking the guitar....and then having to destroy it since its made out of a banned product.

 

[Rogue]

lol whatever.

I've flown in and out of the country numerous times with a PRS that has Brazilian Rosewood. What is TSA or Customs gonna do? You think some airport worker knows the difference between Maple and Mahogany, let alone Brazilian Rosewood and Indian Rosewood? What are they gonna do, take a core sample of your guitar? lololololol morons. "Sir, this Gibson Gold Top might have illegal wood under that paint. We're going to have to strip the paint off and test it before you can fly." Gimme a break.

The issue is at the supply level, not the consumer level. That's why they're going after manufacturers, distributors, and the importers who get the wood in the first place.

No!!! TAKE....YOUR....GUITAR!!! Can't you read the implied headline good?!?!??!?!?!

 

[Rogue]

I give up. This nation is beyond repair.

 

[rlord1974]

At the end of the day, it's none of the government's fucking business what I choose to buy and it comes down to a personal issue between self and wood. Your tax dollars hard at work, while shit roams the streets and people are living under an overpass. Fuck the US government.

If you are afraid of libertarians at least vote conservative this year. Liberal democrats are destroying our country. Just look at the debt we've incurred since January 2009.

I don't want to wade too far into these waters, as I am not even American so my interest is solely related to the knock-on impacts the U.S. economic situation has on Canada.

However, I don't think it is fair to point at the Democrats and blame the debt and deficits of the past few years squarely on them.

Two terms of Republican rule under George Bush left a legacy of debt. Multiple wars (still being financed by the issuance of U.S. debt), lax regulations around the financial sector, decreases in Corporate taxes and taxes on the rich, etc. Then, layer on top of Bush's legacy the world financial crisis in 2008 (somewhat attributable to the lax financial regulations Bush oversaw for two terms!) and a significant oil spill in the Gulf, and Obama inherited an absolute economic shit show that was entirely not of his doing.

I am NOT defending Obama here at all. I can't point to a lot of good that his come from his first term. However, to try to blame the debt that has been building since 2008/2009 on Obama is just not right. He has to pay for the wars that the Republicans started, and he had no choice but to put in place a significant economic stimulus after the 2008 crisis in order to try to kick start the economy (the Republicans would have had to do the exact same thing - regardless of the nonsense they argue and the games they play in the House and Senate).

Holy smokes! I dont want to be too OT here but,...

Are you aware that the Dems controlled the House and the Senate since the 110th Congress? Are you aware that Barney Frank was chairman of the House Financial Services Committee since 2007? No choice but to put in place a stimulus??? WTF???

I'm not sure what your point is here.

Yes, the Dems controlled the House and the Senate. Lest we forget: "Following President Bush's 2007 State of the Union Address, Congress debated his proposal to create a troop surge to increase security in Iraq. The House of Representatives passed a non-binding measure opposing the surge and then a $124 billion emergency spending measure to fund the war, which included language that dictated troop levels and withdrawal schedules. President Bush, however, vetoed the bill as promised, making this his second veto while in office. Both houses of Congress subsequently passed a bill funding the war without timelines."

Seems their hands were forced, no?

As for the stimulus package: if the U.S. economy is in bad shape now, I can only imagine how bad it would be if there had not been a stimulus package. Circling the bowl, no doubt.

I'll tap out of U.S. politics now and leave it to the experts!

 

[rlord1974]

Now, to steer the thread back ON topic.....

 

[thenine]

Well I will refrain in the interest of staying on topic,...

I have seen customs officials at the border with cars on multiple occaisions, I shudder to think what *could* happen to our guitars if nothing is changed and they feel empowered.

 

[guitarmike]

As for the stimulus package: if the U.S. economy is in bad shape now, I can only imagine how bad it would be if there had not been a stimulus package. Circling the bowl, no doubt.

I'll tap out of U.S. politics now and leave it to the experts!

I'll tap out too by asking you who pays for the stimulus? I wish it were the Canadians . but unfortunately it will be my kids and grandkids if the country stays afloat.

Regardless of sides when talking politics always ask who will pay for it.

 

[killertone]

I fly in and out of this country 5 or 6 times a year with guitars. NO ONE has EVER asked me about any of this. I just returned internationally a couple days ago. Not a peep.

 

[Zap]

At the end of the day, it's none of the government's fucking business what I choose to buy and it comes down to a personal issue between self and wood. Your tax dollars hard at work, while shit roams the streets and people are living under an overpass. Fuck the US government.

If you are afraid of libertarians at least vote conservative this year. Liberal democrats are destroying our country. Just look at the debt we've incurred since January 2009.

I don't want to wade too far into these waters, as I am not even American so my interest is solely related to the knock-on impacts the U.S. economic situation has on Canada.

However, I don't think it is fair to point at the Democrats and blame the debt and deficits of the past few years squarely on them.

Two terms of Republican rule under George Bush left a legacy of debt. Multiple wars (still being financed by the issuance of U.S. debt), lax regulations around the financial sector, decreases in Corporate taxes and taxes on the rich, etc. Then, layer on top of Bush's legacy the world financial crisis in 2008 (somewhat attributable to the lax financial regulations Bush oversaw for two terms!) and a significant oil spill in the Gulf, and Obama inherited an absolute economic shit show that was entirely not of his doing.

I am NOT defending Obama here at all. I can't point to a lot of good that his come from his first term. However, to try to blame the debt that has been building since 2008/2009 on Obama is just not right. He has to pay for the wars that the Republicans started, and he had no choice but to put in place a significant economic stimulus after the 2008 crisis in order to try to kick start the economy (the Republicans would have had to do the exact same thing - regardless of the nonsense they argue and the games they play in the House and Senate).

Holy smokes! I dont want to be too OT here but,...

Are you aware that the Dems controlled the House and the Senate since the 110th Congress? Are you aware that Barney Frank was chairman of the House Financial Services Committee since 2007? No choice but to put in place a stimulus??? WTF???

I'm not sure what your point is here.

Yes, the Dems controlled the House and the Senate. Lest we forget: "Following President Bush's 2007 State of the Union Address, Congress debated his proposal to create a troop surge to increase security in Iraq. The House of Representatives passed a non-binding measure opposing the surge and then a $124 billion emergency spending measure to fund the war, which included language that dictated troop levels and withdrawal schedules. President Bush, however, vetoed the bill as promised, making this his second veto while in office. Both houses of Congress subsequently passed a bill funding the war without timelines."

Seems their hands were forced, no?

As for the stimulus package: if the U.S. economy is in bad shape now, I can only imagine how bad it would be if there had not been a stimulus package. Circling the bowl, no doubt.

I'll tap out of U.S. politics now and leave it to the experts!

On the topic of the stimulus...

If it was so effective, why isn't the president running on it?

 

[FourT6and2]

lol whatever.

I've flown in and out of the country numerous times with a PRS that has Brazilian Rosewood. What is TSA or Customs gonna do? You think some airport worker knows the difference between Maple and Mahogany, let alone Brazilian Rosewood and Indian Rosewood? What are they gonna do, take a core sample of your guitar? lololololol morons. "Sir, this Gibson Gold Top might have illegal wood under that paint. We're going to have to strip the paint off and test it before you can fly." Gimme a break.

The issue is at the supply level, not the consumer level. That's why they're going after manufacturers, distributors, and the importers who get the wood in the first place.

No!!! TAKE....YOUR....GUITAR!!! Can't you read the implied headline good?!?!??!?!?!

Why would they take your guitar? They first have to find out if the guitar contains illegal/banned wood. Which they can't possibly know. They can't seize your guitar based off a hunch. This all a load of BS. TSA, customs, the police, and whomever can't seize your property without a valid reason and proof that your property is somehow illegal in the first place.