Vh4 not forgiving when herbert is ???

[sonic]

I would really like to understand what do these expressions mean.
I have read in many posts in this forum and in others the word forgiving about the herbert.
I can honestly say that it seems to me, that most of the people using this word for describing the herbert, are just repeating what it is written in the diezel site without really understading . and i find it ridiculous.
So i would like to ask... What is forgiving in an amp? in this amp specifically? and how can an amp of 4000$ not cut thought the mix? Cause when someone says that the herbie is not cutting well he can mean only 2 things :
1st the herbert sucks, as an amp that does not cut, has no reason to exist
or 2cond : he cant dial the freaking tone, which again in this kind of amp would be almost impossible....
So who is wrong? these users or peter diezel and his famous design?

 

[ttosh]

This is the internet and everything you read even this is to be taken for what it is, just opinion (which are usually based on facts, myth or somebody just stirring the pot). My opinion as a Herbert owner which of course makes me biased is the Herbert cuts through the mix just fine. I base this on the following:

1) I own a Herbert
2) I have listened to the Herbert with amps like Marshalls, Elmwoods, Bogners, etc... Each one has their own thing going on, but the Herbert when setup properly can cut through with no issues.
3) I use V30 speakers which are great speakers IMHO for cutting in a mix.
4) I am just cool. (Again everything you read is based on opinion)

Why do I think people say the Herbert cannot cut in the mix?

1) They never owned one and just want to be cool.
2) They have owned one and the amp they were playing up against was a more mid cutting amp and they did not take time to review the scenario. This can happen with any two amps, and cabinets, pickups, etc come into play. Maybe in a certain scenario the Herbert does not cut as well. You have to ask yourself why, if you love the tone of the Herbert and this applies to any amp what needs done to the overall mix of things that can accommodate this for your band, after all it usually applies to a band, and this is not a pissing contest between one guitar player cutting better than the other it is in a band context and you should be working together. Same thing applies if something is too mid heavy or has too much presence and killing your highs in a band, the reverse of not cutting through, you have to work through these things, review speakers, etc...
3) A lot of players are bedroom players and they are not EQ'n their amp well enough to cut with their stereos.
4) People like to hate on something they cannot afford and just stir the pot.

Bottom line the Herbert like most amps can cut in a mix. To make a blanket statement that it cannot is unfair and based on one scenario. If I hear things like we tried everything to make it work and could not, well I find this hard to believe. But I will give them the benefit of the doubt that with the tools they had, the ears they were using and the context of their music it just did not work.

The above applies to most amps, not just the Herbert. I can make almost any amp get lost in a mix, or not!

Closing Note: Before every gig run an extra mic from your Herbert rig to the PA and tell the sound guy it is your other guitar players mic, unplug his mic to FOH, then put a load box between his head and speaker and push your second out of your Herbert to his speaker. He will sound and play the best he ever has and the crowd and sound guy will love how in sync the two of you are.

 

[sonic]

what about the forgiving part?
I mean i find it a little silly to talk about forgiveness about an amp, specially a tube amp.
Tubes need players. ...

 

[ttosh]

what about the forgiving part?
I mean i find it a little silly to talk about forgiveness about an amp, specially a tube amp.
Tubes need players. ...

I have not owned a VH4 so I really cannot answer. The Herbert can be dialed in to be more forgiving or not so much. The Wizards I have had are a different story, they can not be dialed in to be forgiving at all. It comes down for me to gain and compression. The Herbert can be a very compressed amp, especially on channel 3. The Wizard has very little filtering and is very uncompressed.

Again I will say the Herbert is a forgiving amp, but I cannot answer compared to the VH4 since I have not owned or played one.

 

[MARK2C]

I feel the whole "Forgiving" term is bullshit in relation to the Herbert and VH4.
If you know how to pick it's a moot point. Everyone says the same crap about the
SLO-100, but when you turn the Master over 4 it's not an issue. I think the term should
be slop hider or bad picking hider. Like Mr. Tosh's reference to the Wizard, compression hides mistakes
or flaws in your technique.

 

[ttosh]

I feel the whole "Forgiving" term is bullshit in relation to the Herbert and VH4.
If you know how to pick it's a moot point. Everyone says the same crap about the
SLO-100, but when you turn the Master over 4 it's not an issue. I think the term should
be slop hider or bad picking hider. Like Mr. Tosh's reference to the Wizard, compression hides mistakes
or flaws in your technique.

Exactly!

 

[sonic]

http://diezel.typo3.inpublica.de/soundclips.30.0.html
Tons of mid here by herbert in the Brian Gow -Mega crunchy.
What is wrong with the ones saying it doesn't cut or that its sound is always scooped???

 

[AngryGoldfish]

I find the VH4 "unforgiving" because it's so sudden and strikes you very cleanly. Not because it's compressed.

Even at very low volumes it's right there and present. There's no mistaking it's "cold" character. No other amp, at least that I've played, even comes close to it's sound and feel.

And as already mentioned, don't take what you read on the internet tooooo seriously. At the end of the day, it's about how you feel the amplifier, not how P. Diezel wanted you to feel it, or how a critic/user wanted you to feel it. The great thing about Diezel amplifiers - and other articulate brands, such as Soldano and Fryette - is that you can create your own character through the amp. I always feel like everybody else when playing a Hughes&Kettner or an ENGL. I feel expressionless.

 

[Mailman1971]

I have owned a couple Compressed amps....
Framus Cobra....Engl Fireball 100 .......
The VH4 to me at least....
Doesnt feel as stiff and compressed as them.
Its a great ALL AROUND amp...
From 50's rock to Death metal.
It does it all and it does it PERFECT!!

Hearing one......and owning one is 2 different things.
I have owned a TON of amps.....
the VH4 is not as compressed as everyone keeps writing it is.

 

[AngryGoldfish]

I have owned a couple Compressed amps....
Framus Cobra....Engl Fireball 100 .......
The VH4 to me at least....
Doesnt feel as stiff and compressed as them.
Its a great ALL AROUND amp...
From 50's rock to Death metal.
It does it all and it does it PERFECT!!

Hearing one......and owning one is 2 different things.
I have owned a TON of amps.....
the VH4 is not as compressed as everyone keeps writing it is.

I think "compressed" is a word we all tend to use to try and explain the mystery that is guitar tone.

 

[Mailman1971]

I have owned a couple Compressed amps....
Framus Cobra....Engl Fireball 100 .......
The VH4 to me at least....
Doesnt feel as stiff and compressed as them.
Its a great ALL AROUND amp...
From 50's rock to Death metal.
It does it all and it does it PERFECT!!

Hearing one......and owning one is 2 different things.
I have owned a TON of amps.....
the VH4 is not as compressed as everyone keeps writing it is.

I think "compressed" is a word we all tend to use to try and explain the mystery that is guitar tone.

Exactly.....

The VH4 isnt 'that' compressed. It sounds great!
You do need some compression for metal. Its a given.
But that Engl Fireball 100 and Framus Cobra.........THAT WAS COMPRESSED!!
But it was a METAL amp and it did its job great!

 

[AngryGoldfish]

I have owned a couple Compressed amps....
Framus Cobra....Engl Fireball 100 .......
The VH4 to me at least....
Doesnt feel as stiff and compressed as them.
Its a great ALL AROUND amp...
From 50's rock to Death metal.
It does it all and it does it PERFECT!!

Hearing one......and owning one is 2 different things.
I have owned a TON of amps.....
the VH4 is not as compressed as everyone keeps writing it is.

I think "compressed" is a word we all tend to use to try and explain the mystery that is guitar tone.

Exactly.....

The VH4 isnt 'that' compressed. It sounds great!
You do need some compression for metal. Its a given.
But that Engl Fireball 100 and Framus Cobra.........THAT WAS COMPRESSED!!
But it was a METAL amp and it did its job great!

The notes don't "pop out" with the VH4 as drastically as some compressor pedals, like the Boss or Dynacomp compressors.
And you can certainly feel all the naunces of everything; you're in control.

 

[Mailman1971]

Yes....the note dont pop as easily as some amps. But you can GRIND them out perfectly.
Just got in from a 2 hour band session with the VH4S....
We covered from Zepplin to Whitesnake to Nazareth to Maiden........
Once again.....its proven me to be the BEST THERE IS!!

 

[AngryGoldfish]

Grinding is the ladies job. And by lady I mean VH4.

 

[Mailman1971]

Whats cool about the VH4 for me?
That alot of how it sounds will be on how you play it.
Super sensitive and very dynamic. Attack it HEAVY......you will get HEAVY!
Play it lighter with some volume rolled back.....

I know I keep praising this amp......but its fucking awesome!

 

[AngryGoldfish]

That's why I really want one. Stop giving me GAS!

 

[Mailman1971]

That's why I really want one. Stop giving me GAS!

Man........I was GASSING for a Diezel for the last 6 years.
I went round and round with TONS of amps.
Kept buying other amps and trading them. Hoping to fill the void.
Finally I just sold my last 2 amps and bought one.
.........and YES...they are ALL that you hear about and want and more!
This one is going NO WHERE!!!!
I would get the VH4S and run 2 cabs in STEREO.....FTW!!
It dont get better than this!

Never was loyal to any amp maker in the past....
But yes......I am now a DIEZEL FANBOI!
And proud!!

 

[AngryGoldfish]

That guy does a really good video of it. I think it sounds pretty much just as that clip. I've only actually played it once, though.

 

[Mailman1971]

This is a great VH4 clip........

 

[sonic]

ok ...can you guys see the ''problem'' here?
we god tons of people commenting on the vh4 and how good it is. TONS of videos
in youtube, but we get for the Herbert. COME one show some respect from the Herbie guys.
Post comments on the Herbert and please...someone a GOOD clip of Herbert. all channels from its cleanest to its hardest.
comeonee.... HERBERT clip asap