VHT Fat Bottom speaker ?s

jmgman69

New member
So I recently picked up a Fat bottom with V30s and was wondering how the P50s sound to in comparison to the 30 loaded ???
 

killertone

Well-known member
I liked the P50Es for a long time but missed the mid character of the V30 so I recently swapped all of them out in both of my FB cabs. The P50E has a weird mid content to it, almost like it is "hollow" sounding. The P50E has a killer bottom end though. Very big and tight. I am still getting killer amounts of bottom from the V30s, a lot of it has to do with cab design.
 

jmgman69

New member
Thanks,the V30s are just screamin right now and am looking to get another one of these cabs but they be hard to find locally :D
 

Ventura

Well-known member
killertone":26xj71vk said:
I liked the P50Es for a long time but missed the mid character of the V30 so I recently swapped all of them out in both of my FB cabs. The P50E has a weird mid content to it, almost like it is "hollow" sounding. The P50E has a killer bottom end though. Very big and tight. I am still getting killer amounts of bottom from the V30s, a lot of it has to do with cab design.

I find this interesting... Did you try out the Deliverance cabs at all before deciding on the FB's? I received some correspondence from Steve (Fryette) regarding the frequency range and characteristics of the P50E's and they seemed like really well rounded speakers. I'm eager to try something different than V30's - they're getting a bit too blazeh for me. Kinda done to death. So I'm pumped to try out the P50E loaded Deliverance cab (for my Mak4 and 2/90/2 Fryette poweramp).

Tell me more, either here or PM.

Thanks so much!
Mo/V.
 

Qweklain

Active member
I do not think I will ever use a speaker other than P50Es. They are a pretty neutral speaker with the exception of being really tight on the bottom end. They are however very dependent on the cab they are in. I would love to hear them in a rear-loaded cab, though I mostly prefer front-loaded.

I would love to get a Mills Afterburner loaded with P50Es. Crazy I know, but I played one with the V30s and it was killer, and kept thinking how it would sound with the P50Es.
 

Ventura

Well-known member
Qweklain":3sgue9z9 said:
I do not think I will ever use a speaker other than P50Es. They are a pretty neutral speaker with the exception of being really tight on the bottom end. They are however very dependent on the cab they are in. I would love to hear them in a rear-loaded cab, though I mostly prefer front-loaded.

I would love to get a Mills Afterburner loaded with P50Es. Crazy I know, but I played one with the V30s and it was killer, and kept thinking how it would sound with the P50Es.

Can you elabourate?? I'm about to receive a brand new Fryette 4x12 Deliverance loaded with these speakers and I'm kinda going on a whim never having heard them before or even used a Fryette cab. I know they've got a sick following, and peeps dig 'em and can't say enough about them. I've spoken with Steve about the "are the P50E's just rebranded Eminence speakers or are they custom made for Fryette??" and he went on to tell me they were indeed developed alongside Fryette and Fryette's cabinets sonic needs. Sent me the frequency response graphs, the sensitivity ratings, constructions, etc. and I gotta say, I'm intrigued to say the least.

As I await my cab, any info would be swell - thanks!! When you say "tight" low end - can you expand on that?? You mean it hits ultra lows without too lengthy a decay, more like a percussive hit than a rumbling thunder?? Chugga chugga has zero overlap - tracks fast?? Or do you mean once it hits a certain low frequency, that's it - it stops before it flubs??

Mondo thanks,
V.
 

Devilinside

Active member
Well jason when I got my FB it had the p50's and I personally didn't like them at all. The were well rounded and to me didn't offer much of anything special other than being really tight. That cab came alive with the v30's and had more bottom, better mids, and still tight as a nun's brown eye!
 

noob_pwn

New member
steve fryette wrote a good article on this topic a while back on the VHT forum:
The P50E speaker is custom built to SFD specifications by Eminence, and is only available from Steven Fryette Design, Inc. The P50E is not an OEM version of the Eminence Redcoat or Patriot series speaker lines.

It is difficult to discuss the sonic characteristics of the P50E or any speaker for that matter, in isolation because so much of speaker behavior depends on the environment in which it is operating - that is to say, 2X12 cab, 4X12 cab, front-mount, rear-mount, wood type, construction style, playing volume, etc, etc. Having said all that lets talk about the P50E versus the popular Celestion Vintage 30 in a Fryette 4X12 FatBottom straight cab.

The P50E is actually a 50-watt speaker. The V30, although officially rated at 60 watts is in reality closer to 75 watts. The P50E has a smaller magnet than the V30, which insures that the speaker will break up at lower amplifier power than a V30. However, the V30 has a more compliant suspension, which together with the larger magnet causes the speaker to move more-low end. This also causes more distortion in the higher frequencies contributing to a harsh top end. The highly compliant suspension makes it difficult for the speaker to track low frequencies especially at high volume levels and this causes a “woofy” sound when playing staccato chording (‘palm muting”). It is also partly why the P50E, although lower in power handling capacity, seems to produce about as much low end as a V30, yet with better control of the low end. The smaller magnet on the P50E also contributes to a softer, more natural sounding high-end response, which is not smeared out by the sloppy suspension, as is the case with the V30. Finally, the Fryette cabinet is a front loaded type, producing a more open, well-dispersed sound. Front mounting a V30 is less desirable as the harshness on the top end, which is normally masked in a rear-mounted enclosure, is now more audible.

Another very important consideration in the comparison has to do with the age and condition of the speakers under test. The P50E is not factory “preconditioned” as many OEM speakers might be or might claim to be. This means that depending on usage, it may take as little as a month or as long as 6 months for the speaker to “break in”. A V30 will be looser and warmer out of the box, but also is brighter and tighter than it will be 4 months from now (with regular use). The V30 will mellow out a bit over time, but the low-end control issues will be exaggerated. By the same token, the P50E, while retaining good bottom end control will sweeten up and smooth out over time.

Comparing the FatBottom to the Deliverance cabs, the FatBottom series cabs loaded with the P50 speaker is considered modern sounding and exhibits lots of projection, low-end control and excellent tonal detail. The Deliverance cab on the other hand will sound warmer, looser and sweeter than the FatBottom cab even though they use the same speaker. The Deliverance cab is designed to make the speaker fatter and warmer sounding, as might happen in a traditional 4X12 cab design, but without the traditional boomy, sloppy rattling low end. The ability to identify and manipulate key elements of cabinet construction gives us control over those speaker parameters we wish to suppress or enhance.

The difference between front mounted speakers and rear mounted speakers is subtle and both methods have their pros and cons. Overall we find front mounting to be preferable. Those who would disagree must realize that it is difficult to compare based on the sound of other manufacturers cabs because construction method and material type/quality play a much larger part than mounting method in determining the sound of the cab and behavior of the speaker.

Finally, all of the above depends on the amp in response to which the speakers’ mids, top and bottom will all shift around in concert with the difference in behavior between 100 watts or 50 for example. Keep in mind that this discussion assumes all speakers in the comparison are 16 ohms, as the P50E is only available in 16 ohms. This is important since the impedance of the amplifier load will dramatically affect the behavior of the amplifier due to damping factor and frequency
 

killertone

Well-known member
Ventura":3psd4cpk said:
killertone":3psd4cpk said:
I liked the P50Es for a long time but missed the mid character of the V30 so I recently swapped all of them out in both of my FB cabs. The P50E has a weird mid content to it, almost like it is "hollow" sounding. The P50E has a killer bottom end though. Very big and tight. I am still getting killer amounts of bottom from the V30s, a lot of it has to do with cab design.

I find this interesting... Did you try out the Deliverance cabs at all before deciding on the FB's? I received some correspondence from Steve (Fryette) regarding the frequency range and characteristics of the P50E's and they seemed like really well rounded speakers. I'm eager to try something different than V30's - they're getting a bit too blazeh for me. Kinda done to death. So I'm pumped to try out the P50E loaded Deliverance cab (for my Mak4 and 2/90/2 Fryette poweramp).

Tell me more, either here or PM.

Thanks so much!
Mo/V.

I tried the P50es for the exact same reason you stated above. I had been using V30s for over a decade and wanted to try something else. I played a friend's FB 412 and dug it so I ordered a pair of cabs. I used the P50Es for 8 months or so and was really digging them then I tried my Marshall V30 cabs again after not using them for a while. I looooooved the V30 tone. I missed the fat mids of the V30 that the P50Es did not have. The V30 has a more aggressive sound, IMO, and I missed that as well. The P50E is a killer speaker, it is very modern and ultra tight. IMO, it is like a better G12T-75. The mid character, or lack thereof maybe, is what I did not like. YMMV. :thumbsup:
 

Ventura

Well-known member
noob_pwn":2keze4vq said:
steve fryette wrote a good article on this topic a while back on the VHT forum:
The P50E speaker is custom built to SFD specifications by Eminence, and is only available from Steven Fryette Design, Inc. The P50E is not an OEM version of the Eminence Redcoat or Patriot series speaker lines.

It is difficult to discuss the sonic characteristics of the P50E or any speaker for that matter, in isolation because so much of speaker behavior depends on the environment in which it is operating - that is to say, 2X12 cab, 4X12 cab, front-mount, rear-mount, wood type, construction style, playing volume, etc, etc. Having said all that lets talk about the P50E versus the popular Celestion Vintage 30 in a Fryette 4X12 FatBottom straight cab.

The P50E is actually a 50-watt speaker. The V30, although officially rated at 60 watts is in reality closer to 75 watts. The P50E has a smaller magnet than the V30, which insures that the speaker will break up at lower amplifier power than a V30. However, the V30 has a more compliant suspension, which together with the larger magnet causes the speaker to move more-low end. This also causes more distortion in the higher frequencies contributing to a harsh top end. The highly compliant suspension makes it difficult for the speaker to track low frequencies especially at high volume levels and this causes a “woofy” sound when playing staccato chording (‘palm muting”). It is also partly why the P50E, although lower in power handling capacity, seems to produce about as much low end as a V30, yet with better control of the low end. The smaller magnet on the P50E also contributes to a softer, more natural sounding high-end response, which is not smeared out by the sloppy suspension, as is the case with the V30. Finally, the Fryette cabinet is a front loaded type, producing a more open, well-dispersed sound. Front mounting a V30 is less desirable as the harshness on the top end, which is normally masked in a rear-mounted enclosure, is now more audible.

Another very important consideration in the comparison has to do with the age and condition of the speakers under test. The P50E is not factory “preconditioned” as many OEM speakers might be or might claim to be. This means that depending on usage, it may take as little as a month or as long as 6 months for the speaker to “break in”. A V30 will be looser and warmer out of the box, but also is brighter and tighter than it will be 4 months from now (with regular use). The V30 will mellow out a bit over time, but the low-end control issues will be exaggerated. By the same token, the P50E, while retaining good bottom end control will sweeten up and smooth out over time.

Comparing the FatBottom to the Deliverance cabs, the FatBottom series cabs loaded with the P50 speaker is considered modern sounding and exhibits lots of projection, low-end control and excellent tonal detail. The Deliverance cab on the other hand will sound warmer, looser and sweeter than the FatBottom cab even though they use the same speaker. The Deliverance cab is designed to make the speaker fatter and warmer sounding, as might happen in a traditional 4X12 cab design, but without the traditional boomy, sloppy rattling low end. The ability to identify and manipulate key elements of cabinet construction gives us control over those speaker parameters we wish to suppress or enhance.

The difference between front mounted speakers and rear mounted speakers is subtle and both methods have their pros and cons. Overall we find front mounting to be preferable. Those who would disagree must realize that it is difficult to compare based on the sound of other manufacturers cabs because construction method and material type/quality play a much larger part than mounting method in determining the sound of the cab and behavior of the speaker.

Finally, all of the above depends on the amp in response to which the speakers’ mids, top and bottom will all shift around in concert with the difference in behavior between 100 watts or 50 for example. Keep in mind that this discussion assumes all speakers in the comparison are 16 ohms, as the P50E is only available in 16 ohms. This is important since the impedance of the amplifier load will dramatically affect the behavior of the amplifier due to damping factor and frequency

:salute: An official EOM!!

V.
 

Ventura

Well-known member
killertone":2u08ip5w said:
Ventura":2u08ip5w said:
killertone":2u08ip5w said:
I liked the P50Es for a long time but missed the mid character of the V30 so I recently swapped all of them out in both of my FB cabs. The P50E has a weird mid content to it, almost like it is "hollow" sounding. The P50E has a killer bottom end though. Very big and tight. I am still getting killer amounts of bottom from the V30s, a lot of it has to do with cab design.

I find this interesting... Did you try out the Deliverance cabs at all before deciding on the FB's? I received some correspondence from Steve (Fryette) regarding the frequency range and characteristics of the P50E's and they seemed like really well rounded speakers. I'm eager to try something different than V30's - they're getting a bit too blazeh for me. Kinda done to death. So I'm pumped to try out the P50E loaded Deliverance cab (for my Mak4 and 2/90/2 Fryette poweramp).

Tell me more, either here or PM.

Thanks so much!
Mo/V.

I tried the P50es for the exact same reason you stated above. I had been using V30s for over a decade and wanted to try something else. I played a friend's FB 412 and dug it so I ordered a pair of cabs. I used the P50Es for 8 months or so and was really digging them then I tried my Marshall V30 cabs again after not using them for a while. I looooooved the V30 tone. I missed the fat mids of the V30 that the P50Es did not have. The V30 has a more aggressive sound, IMO, and I missed that as well. The P50E is a killer speaker, it is very modern and ultra tight. IMO, it is like a better G12T-75. The mid character, or lack thereof maybe, is what I did not like. YMMV. :thumbsup:

Thanks for your personal take on this - helps me out for sure... I've got a mess of V30's in a lot of my cabs and for me, I'm looking forward to moving away from that mid grind that's so prevalent in them. Hell, if I need it back, my cabs ain't going anywhere :D

The reason I mated the Deliverance to the Mak4 and Fryette 2/90/2 is that Steve (Fryette) and Andrew (Mako) both said that pairing up that pre with that amp would be ULTRA dry and ULTRA tight. Not wanting to get into hi-fi territory overkill, I decided in order to loosen it up a bit and give it some grease, the Deliverance would compensate. I hope I'm right.

As mentioned, clips will come when it all comes together.

Peace, and thanks to those who've addressed my inquiries :thumbsup:

V.
 

Ventura

Well-known member
DSS3":1pga64qe said:
If you're looking for another killer 4x12 with V30's, I'm selling a Mesa 4x12 and am in Ventura!

:LOL: :LOL: Thanks man... I'm NOT in Ventura, albeit that would make sense with my handle and all... But ya, um, not really looking for a V30 loaded Mesa 4x12... Thanks though m'man!! Pump that bitch to the classifieds!!

Peace,
V.
 

lolzgreg

New member
On that note DSS3, Jeff, is a nice dude, and would be selling you a solid cabinet.

I don't like Freyette Cabinets with anything but Freyette heads. The Deliverance cabinet paired with the Deliverance head is one of the best tonal combinations I have EVER heard.
 

troublehead

New member
I love Fryette amps (50/CL and Deliverance) but I can't stand the Fatbottom cabs or speakers. I agree about them sounding "hollow" and really flat. Just not my bag. I dropped V30's in the cab and it was a huge improvement, but I prefer them rear loaded. Not a good experience with those cabs/P50's. YMMV.
 

Ventura

Well-known member
lolzgreg":1eou1i33 said:
On that note DSS3, Jeff, is a nice dude, and would be selling you a solid cabinet.

I don't like Freyette Cabinets with anything but Freyette heads. The Deliverance cabinet paired with the Deliverance head is one of the best tonal combinations I have EVER heard.

Interesting... Well, a Fryette 2/90/2 will be driving the power of the preamp into the Deliverance anyway - I think it'll work out. I've been skeptical of these P50E's as they're not mainstream, or that well known, and felt better knowing they're just not a re-brand. But I guess the proof will be in the pudding... I'm kinda done with V30's - they suit my 20thA XTC to a "T", but outside of this application, I find 'em noisy.

V.
 
killertone":2sa0jmch said:
I liked the P50Es for a long time but missed the mid character of the V30 so I recently swapped all of them out in both of my FB cabs.
so Jason, that means the V30s in your FBs are front-mounted, right?

how is that sounding? maybe compared to your Marshall cabs, but there's so much difference in cab construction also going on between those two.

i'm going through a whole V30 thing back and forth right now in my cabs, plus Hellatone 60Ls too. too many variables! :doh: :LOL: :LOL:
 

mhenson42

Well-known member
Bumping this thread from the dead....

I'm not liking my Fat Bottom cab with my UL for much the same reasons cited in this thread. I have a quad of 8 Ohm v30s that I'd like to put on the cab. Is it possible to wire 4 8ohm speakers to 16 ohms? I can't seem to find a wiring diagram for this.

Or is it just easier to do a direct swap with the v30s (same wiring) and run the cab at 8 ohms mono and 4 ohms stereo..... Is it safe to assume that this would be fine?

I don't know much about cab wiring/ohms... I've only ever swapped speakers that have the same ohms. I don't want to fry my amp by screwing around with the speakers.
 
Top