Want a Bogner...

[Bderen70]

Ever since hearing a solo Jerry Cantrell live with his Shivas, I have wanted a Bogner...Ive played a 6L6 Shiva once, and even that was a killer rock sound. Cleans amazing...But i digress, Ive been interested in the new Helios for classic Marshall sounds. How do they compare to the older and Anniversary Shivas? My ideal is that clean pushed sound of High and Dry-era Def Leppard, Billy Squier, and of course AC/DC, Zep, and a very credible early VH..Definitely more vintage than modern, this disqualifies the Ecstasy I believe...Experience? Recommendations?

Appreciated

 

[moltenmetalburn]

20th shiva...

 

[GOHOINC]

I think the Ecstasy can cover all of that in plexi mode or maybe lowering the gain on the blue channel.

 

[Bderen70]

Re: The 20th Shiva...Ive read varying preferences regarding the power tubes, KT-88s or El-34? Im tempted my the 34s because of the classic rock lineage, but am always open to everything, also wonder how the 6V6 65 Amps Empire compares....have a Whiskey, tremendous clean an 80s gain, but not a "classic vintage Marshall" sound...

 

[moltenmetalburn]

Re: The 20th Shiva...Ive read varying preferences regarding the power tubes, KT-88s or El-34? Im tempted my the 34s because of the classic rock lineage, but am always open to everything, also wonder how the 6V6 65 Amps Empire compares....have a Whiskey, tremendous clean an 80s gain, but not a "classic vintage Marshall" sound...

88 more headroom brighter crisp mids, 34 less headroom darker but sweeter mids. 34 vintage, 88 modern.

 

[nevusofota]

Get the 20th Sheeves with 88’’s. It’s all the best from Bogner in one box.

Here’s a great demo:

 

[Bderen70]

Thanks for the feedback guys...no love for the Helios?

 

[Ventura]

Thanks for the feedback guys...no love for the Helios?

Tonnes of love, but not for what you're seeking.

If you want to nail as much Cantrell tone while staying within the Bogner family, 20thA Sheevs it is. The 88s are fine - they've got headroom and act super nice with the amp; I don't like 88s but they work very well with this circuit. But onto more pressing affairs - the 20thA Sheevs has more tonal shaping qualities - you'll also want to look into a suitable speaker situation (cross with V30/greenbacks is Cantrell's preference); and maybe an EQ in the loop to fine tune it. Yes, the 101B and 20thA XTC are formidable amps, hands down stunningly formidable and capable amps; but the Shiva gets more pissed off. Little known fact - it's true - the Shiva gets angry!! Then there's the Rev.2 - good luck - it's a great amp, and does its one thing REALLY well, but it's, um, well no disrespect having owned several in my time and likely will again, it just does that "one thing".

Bogner Shiva 20th Anniversary KT88 model.

Outside of this, there's the Friedman JJ, but if I had to choose between the two?? I won't - hence the reason I own both along with a lot of other amps

Get the Sheevs, plug it in, hone your chops, and stay off the forums and you'll be forever happy

 

[Bderen70]

Ha! Thats the hard part part (staying offline and not scouring the earth for more equipment)
I guess I should have been clearer, I first heard a Bogner when I saw Cantrell, and it truly was one of the greatest two live amps Ive ever heard in my life, BUT...I also need an amp that can do the other 70s Marshall tones right on, will the Shiva get me those or is the Helios closer to that more classic High and Dry-era sound?


Thanks!

 

[Ventura]

Ha! Thats the hard part part (staying offline and not scouring the earth for more equipment)
I guess I should have been clearer, I first heard a Bogner when I saw Cantrell, and it truly was one of the greatest two live amps Ive ever heard in my life, BUT...I also need an amp that can do the other 70s Marshall tones right on, will the Shiva get me those or is the Helios closer to that more classic High and Dry-era sound?


Thanks!

Is this musical dichotomy split down the middle?? As in dig the Cantrell and more contemporary shreddy tones 50% of the time, and layback into classic ACDC, older Scorps, Hendrix and similar for the remaining 50%??

Tall order.

I'd still opt for the Sheevs... You can pull it in and dry it out to get a plexi'ish tone; but you can't add "gobs of contemporary" to the Helios.

So, if it were trade for trade, Sheevs still wins if I HAD to pick.

Peace

 

[nevusofota]

^^^werd

 

[GOHOINC]

Sounds like ecstasy to me... red channel for your more modern cantrell stuff and blue for the 70s stuff maybe even using plexi mode.

 

[Ventura]

Sounds like ecstasy to me... red channel for your more modern cantrell stuff and blue for the 70s stuff maybe even using plexi mode.

I'm a MASSIVE xtc fanboi. No surprise here. But if I had to pick between the 2 for which one can get gnarlier, the Shiva gets PISSED(!!!!) sounding, the XTC get's thick and woody and syrupy and definitely offers tonnes of goodness in the gain department, but it's not searing hot like the Sheevs. Sheevs get's pissed. And it's cheaper than the "all out" XTC of either model (101B versus 20thA). I've got the 20thA EL34 XTC loaded with every option - desert island amp - for sure. But if I had to show up with one Bogner to a gig that played all sorts of heavier stuff?? I'd bring my Shiva. If I showed up to a gig that played everything from 70s through to contemporary "rock", I'd show up with my XTC. If I had to show up to a gig that I didn't know what to expect? I'd bring my Atma Combo . If I showed up to a gig that required the destruction of the first 6 rows of humans through the doling out of molar-popping, semen killing, knee-buckling heaviness, I'd bring my modded TwinJet.

Simple.

This is staying with the Bogner family. There are others, but this is staying within the Bogner family.

 

[GOHOINC]

Sounds like ecstasy to me... red channel for your more modern cantrell stuff and blue for the 70s stuff maybe even using plexi mode.

I'm a MASSIVE xtc fanboi. No surprise here. But if I had to pick between the 2 for which one can get gnarlier, the Shiva gets PISSED(!!!!) sounding, the XTC get's thick and woody and syrupy and definitely offers tonnes of goodness in the gain department, but it's not searing hot like the Sheevs. Sheevs get's pissed. And it's cheaper than the "all out" XTC of either model (101B versus 20thA). I've got the 20thA EL34 XTC loaded with every option - desert island amp - for sure. But if I had to show up with one Bogner to a gig that played all sorts of heavier stuff?? I'd bring my Shiva. If I showed up to a gig that played everything from 70s through to contemporary "rock", I'd show up with my XTC. If I had to show up to a gig that I didn't know what to expect? I'd bring my Atma Combo . If I showed up to a gig that required the destruction of the first 6 rows of humans through the doling out of molar-popping, semen killing, knee-buckling heaviness, I'd bring my modded TwinJet.

Simple.

This is staying with the Bogner family. There are others, but this is staying within the Bogner family.

Maybe, but it doesn't sound like the OP is trying to get that heavy... The stuff he mentions sound more Ecstasy than Shiva to me. That is with the press of a footswitch. With the Shiva, you need to re eq the gain channel and mode/shift to switch between 70's/80's and more modern stuff. IMO, The Ecstasy does all that with a press on the footswitch.

In my experience the regular Shiva heads don't get "heavy" without mods or boosts/OD, the 20th is supposed to, but when I had a 20th I never thought it was all that heavy sounding vs. my Ecstasy(s). I found them to be quite comparable to be honest. I don't play the brootz like a lot of guys here so I probably didn't really try to get there with the 20th Shiva. I'm into the AIC/Tool/Mastodon even Gojira tones as well as the more classic stuff the OP mentions and my Ecstasy heads have delivered on my needs in spades, hence why they stayed and the Shivas left...

 

[BrentSP]

There's a lot of love for the 20th Shiva, makes me wonder if its been updated. Mine was a 2010 wheat grill front. I wasn't big on mine, I actually couldn't get rid of it fast enough but I kept it for 6 months or so before selling it. Tried EL34's and KT88 and even called Charlie and Jorg at Bogner for help etc. After 3 Shiva's one being the 20th, I'm done and have moved on. I can't stand the gain channel voicing, just not my thing. The 20th was improved a little but still had the Shiva thing that I don't like. The Helios, XTC line and Goldfinger are about the only ones of Bogner's I'm a fan of these days. I hear there is a updated Helios coming in 2018.............

To the OP, Jerry's Shiva's weren't stock. They were modded by Reinhold with more gain and more aggressive voicing, the Shiva 20th still doesn't get there IMO but it is closer. Personally if you really want his tone I'd go JJ100 or Helios.

 

[squank]

I love both the XTC and the Shiva, but for what the OP is asking I think the Shiva 20th is the one. I loved mine - it was the last amp I kept when I went totally Kemper a few years ago.

 

[Jon BCN]

If you want classic hard rock tones the right Bogner is definitely the Helios.

 

[Rdodson]

Shiva 20th for the OP, especially with the combination V30/GB cabinet.

It can do it all, and Ventura is spot-on about being one ANGRY amp when dialed in for that. It was too angry for this EJ/Holdsworth/EVH guy!

 

[Ventura]

Ha! Thats the hard part part (staying offline and not scouring the earth for more equipment)
I guess I should have been clearer, I first heard a Bogner when I saw Cantrell, and it truly was one of the greatest two live amps Ive ever heard in my life, BUT...I also need an amp that can do the other 70s Marshall tones right on, will the Shiva get me those or is the Helios closer to that more classic High and Dry-era sound?


Thanks!

How'd ya make out?? Pick up a noise maker yet??

 

[PSGuitar]

Tonnes of love, but not for what you're seeking.

If you want to nail as much Cantrell tone while staying within the Bogner family, 20thA Sheevs it is. The 88s are fine - they've got headroom and act super nice with the amp; I don't like 88s but they work very well with this circuit. But onto more pressing affairs - the 20thA Sheevs has more tonal shaping qualities - you'll also want to look into a suitable speaker situation (cross with V30/greenbacks is Cantrell's preference); and maybe an EQ in the loop to fine tune it. Yes, the 101B and 20thA XTC are formidable amps, hands down stunningly formidable and capable amps; but the Shiva gets more pissed off. Little known fact - it's true - the Shiva gets angry!! Then there's the Rev.2 - good luck - it's a great amp, and does its one thing REALLY well, but it's, um, well no disrespect having owned several in my time and likely will again, it just does that "one thing".

Bogner Shiva 20th Anniversary KT88 model.

Outside of this, there's the Friedman JJ, but if I had to choose between the two?? I won't - hence the reason I own both along with a lot of other amps

Get the Sheevs, plug it in, hone your chops, and stay off the forums and you'll be forever happy

Old thread.
I used to have a 20th Shiva years ago with EL34s and felt I was able to solo better on it.
Solos felt smoother, cheqier and easier?

My current Shiva 20rh has KT88s and I wonder if that's what the disconnect is for me?

Tempted to convert to EL34 as I can always convert back. My tech can do it.

Do any of you know what Cantrell used when he had the Shiva? I read he had a 20th model for some time.