Want to try an ISO CAB.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guitarist9891
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Guitarist9891

Guitarist9891

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Have been using Its for a while. My favorite so far is the Warren Huart Producer pack from Lancaster Audio. I feel like I want to try an ISO CAB for tracking and layering guitar parts, not playing for fun late at night. I have neighbors so it needs to be relatively quiet.

I have decided to explore the possibility of buying a wooden trunk or a used ATA case and sound proofing with thick fiberglass panels from the inside. Then if need buy a piano cover and fold several times on top of a wooden trunk. I think it will be easier for me to modify an existing trunk than to build one from scratch.

Does anyone know where I can buy a large wooden trunk? preferable dimensions around 45x30x30.
 
I considered an ISO cab for a long time. I really liked the way the mojotone 2x12 was setup but the shipping was insane to where I live in Hawaii. I ended up going load box with IRs n stuff but I still think about this cab :inlove:

https://www.mojotone.com/Cabinets_x/Cabinets_xx/Mojotone-2x12-Iso-Cabinet

frontdeadon.jpg


media.nl
 
Whoa the 2x12 and 1x12 from Mojo tone look great. Might have to save for one of them.
 
I've had one of the Jet City Jetstream ISO cabs for years now - it's more useful as a chair than a cab to be honest lmao


The comb filtering you get on the mic from the massive amounts of reflections inside the cab makes everything sound hollow and weird. I'm sure there's some way to overcome it with strategic post-EQ but I never had the knowledge or patience to try.

I'd say try before you buy if at all possible.
 
Devin":2epd0ueb said:
I've had one of the Jet City Jetstream ISO cabs for years now - it's more useful as a chair than a cab to be honest lmao


The comb filtering you get on the mic from the massive amounts of reflections inside the cab makes everything sound hollow and weird. I'm sure there's some way to overcome it with strategic post-EQ but I never had the knowledge or patience to try.

I'd say try before you buy if at all possible.
Click to expand...
THIS ! I bought the Rivera Silent Sister Isocab and it's only good use is as a load. The porting in the cab is supposed to eliminate (if not at least reduce) the comb filtering effect, but not that I can tell. Hell, it's not even quiet !!! I have it in a heavily soundproofed small room/closet in my basement and it's STILL violently loud upstairs. Good luck OP.
 
I wanted to go that route as well, but as others already mentioned;
even with an ISO cab:
1) it's still plenty loud in the room if you crank tube amps
2) you're very limited in speaker choice/mic choice
3) you're probably dealing with comb filtering, less optimal sound.
4) it's a big, ugly thing that takes up a lot of room.

What I did: Two Notes Torpedo Live. It works as a load box, speaker/mic sim, even can do digital power amp simulation and has a headphone out too.
You don't even need to have it hooked up to a PC or anything; just stand alone quiet playing. Can handle 100W through 8 Ohm.

If it's too expensive, consider the Two Notes Captor X.
 
I am currently running my guitar into a countryman DI (to get a clean "safety" signal for reamping) and the "thru" into my JCM900 Marshall head into a Suhr reactive load, taking a line out into a HA73jr pre and into Pro Tools. There I am running IRs in the Reverberate plugin. I used to use the Celestial V30 2x12 closed back (since I used to mic up and record a Carvin Legacy 2x12 with vintage 30s using a 57) but lately have been favoring the Bogner cab in the Warren Huart Producer pack from Lancaster Audio. It takes a little EQ in PT (high and low pass filters, maybe a notch in the lower mids (200hz - 400hz range) and a notch in the upper mids (3k-5k) but the tracks layer well and sit in the mix. (I also apply a little Reverb obviously.)

Thing about IRs is that its a snapshot. I can easily taylor the sound to the song by moving the mic 1/4 of an inch or changing the mic on/off axis relationship. With IRs we lack that control. and from my experience finding a good IR that ACTUALLY sits in the mix, and you can layer tracks with, not just play for fun over a backing a tack, is so difficult that the notion of "use a different IR for variation" doesn't really apply. Also most IRs lack depth. When comparing an IR with a miced signal you really realize how much you hear the air between the mic and the speaker. I used to mic my cabinet off axis about one fist distance from the grill.

ok rant over :)

Now Tim Pierce showed his ISO CAB on YouTube but his Isocab is the size of an SUV. and it sits in a garage...

What I am afraid of is spending time and $ on an iso cab that will sound like crap and be nothing like I remember recording a real cab.

Also my guess it won't be DEAD silent? Hearing dull low end from the ISO box would make it harder to dial in a guitar tone. For those who used ISO cabs did you run into this?

I wanted to build an iso cab using this - https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S- ... lsrc=aw.ds

and filling it with
Owens Corning 703

What do you guys think? too small?

Of course there is always an option of recording at home with IRs and just ReAmping my tracks in a commercial studio through a cab.......
 
@Guitarist9891;

your point of IR's being a snapshot and not being able to move mic positions may hold true for standard IR's, but not for the Two Notes stuff.

There you can virtually switch cabinets, mics as well as their position (back and forth, left to right, straight or angled).
Their Wall of Sound software is very nice and a sort of drag-and-position interface, although you can also turn some knobs that will do the positioning for you.
Even their more 'stand alone' oriented products like the Captor X and Torpedo Live can be hooked up to a PC via USB, so you can do the tweaking of this on a big screen, and then save your custom IR presets for stand-alone use again.

wos-simu.jpg


The products come with a slew of free cabs and you can purchase more cabs (that also accept multiple mic types, and the whole positioning stuff) in their webstore.
 
Guitarist9891":cj9ixxkc said:
What I am afraid of is spending time and $ on an iso cab that will sound like crap and be nothing like I remember recording a real cab.

Also my guess it won't be DEAD silent? Hearing dull low end from the ISO box would make it harder to dial in a guitar tone. For those who used ISO cabs did you run into this?

I wanted to build an iso cab using this - https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S- ... lsrc=aw.ds

and filling it with
Owens Corning 703

What do you guys think? too small?
Click to expand...
You can bet on it that it won't even be near DEAD silent.
Think of a super-well built studio, like the pro-stuff. The whole box in a box build. Typically they will be able to drop the volume with maybe 60-70dB to the outside world, maybe even more. Which, mind you, is a lot. For a concrete construction with thick walls, costing $$$$ in calculations and build.

Now... given that a single V30 has a sensitivity of 100db @ 1 watt in 1 meter on axis.
So if you put 10W in, that speaker is outputting ~110dB, and 120dB if you crank a 100W head through one (double the wattage = +3dB, tenfold the wattage = + 10dB). Of course 100W amp through 1 Vintage 30 won't work (=power rating 60W), but you get the idea.

Back to your 24"x24"x24" crate; the outer wall is plywood. Not known for its heavy mass density like drywall.
Now, you'd need at least 4" of OC703 insulation per side, ideally maybe even 6", and then still build a smaller, heavy sturdy box inside, with the proper holes for putting a mic cable through. This inner box needs to be heavy mass to do anything meaningful in sound dampening.
Long story short, your inner space where you can mount a speaker may just be about 14"x14"x14", hardly bigger than the speaker itself. Given that the speaker has no volume behind it for bass build-up AND the fact that you have no real space/depth for the sound to travel, all your lower frequencies will sound horrible, combfiltering galore.
Maybe you'll manage 30-40dB damping at best (with properly sealed holes where the mic cable went through), but remember that even 10W will provide that V30 with a 110dB output, so outside your 'silent box' you still have 70dB of noise. That's nowhere near dead silent. In fact, it will annoy a normal conversation next to the box.

Oh yeah, ideally on the INSIDE of your inner box, you'd have some sort of dampening foam as well and not the simple egg-crate foam (since that won't do shit for anything below 1kHz...and you want your 80-300Hz to be damped/absorped).

My advice: skip the build.
I rather have a 'snapshot IR' to work with than to mic a live-speaker inside a crappy sounding box that, no matter where you mic it, it will sound nasty.
 
Speeddemon":3ubemvgz said:
@Guitarist9891;

your point of IR's being a snapshot and not being able to move mic positions may hold true for standard IR's, but not for the Two Notes stuff.

There you can virtually switch cabinets, mics as well as their position (back and forth, left to right, straight or angled).
Their Wall of Sound software is very nice and a sort of drag-and-position interface, although you can also turn some knobs that will do the positioning for you.
Even their more 'stand alone' oriented products like the Captor X and Torpedo Live can be hooked up to a PC via USB, so you can do the tweaking of this on a big screen, and then save your custom IR presets for stand-alone use again.

wos-simu.jpg


The products come with a slew of free cabs and you can purchase more cabs (that also accept multiple mic types, and the whole positioning stuff) in their webstore.
Click to expand...

I have that software. It’s nice in theory. I even bought some cabs made specifically for the wall of sound plugin. I especially like that you can audition cabs without buying them. Now for me it only worked in theory. I have gotten better results from stand alone wav iR files. It’s a very nice concept though.

UPDATE: Just saw that Celestion makes their IRs in the two notes format that still allows you to move the mic. Hmm gonna have to check it out.
 
Speeddemon":1revra90 said:
Guitarist9891":1revra90 said:
What I am afraid of is spending time and $ on an iso cab that will sound like crap and be nothing like I remember recording a real cab.

Also my guess it won't be DEAD silent? Hearing dull low end from the ISO box would make it harder to dial in a guitar tone. For those who used ISO cabs did you run into this?

I wanted to build an iso cab using this - https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S- ... lsrc=aw.ds

and filling it with
Owens Corning 703

What do you guys think? too small?
Click to expand...
You can bet on it that it won't even be near DEAD silent.
Think of a super-well built studio, like the pro-stuff. The whole box in a box build. Typically they will be able to drop the volume with maybe 60-70dB to the outside world, maybe even more. Which, mind you, is a lot. For a concrete construction with thick walls, costing $$$$ in calculations and build.

Now... given that a single V30 has a sensitivity of 100db @ 1 watt in 1 meter on axis.
So if you put 10W in, that speaker is outputting ~110dB, and 120dB if you crank a 100W head through one (double the wattage = +3dB, tenfold the wattage = + 10dB). Of course 100W amp through 1 Vintage 30 won't work (=power rating 60W), but you get the idea.

Back to your 24"x24"x24" crate; the outer wall is plywood. Not known for its heavy mass density like drywall.
Now, you'd need at least 4" of OC703 insulation per side, ideally maybe even 6", and then still build a smaller, heavy sturdy box inside, with the proper holes for putting a mic cable through. This inner box needs to be heavy mass to do anything meaningful in sound dampening.
Long story short, your inner space where you can mount a speaker may just be about 14"x14"x14", hardly bigger than the speaker itself. Given that the speaker has no volume behind it for bass build-up AND the fact that you have no real space/depth for the sound to travel, all your lower frequencies will sound horrible, combfiltering galore.
Maybe you'll manage 30-40dB damping at best (with properly sealed holes where the mic cable went through), but remember that even 10W will provide that V30 with a 110dB output, so outside your 'silent box' you still have 70dB of noise. That's nowhere near dead silent. In fact, it will annoy a normal conversation next to the box.

Oh yeah, ideally on the INSIDE of your inner box, you'd have some sort of dampening foam as well and not the simple egg-crate foam (since that won't do shit for anything below 1kHz...and you want your 80-300Hz to be damped/absorped).

My advice: skip the build.
I rather have a 'snapshot IR' to work with than to mic a live-speaker inside a crappy sounding box that, no matter where you mic it, it will sound nasty.
Click to expand...

That’s what I am leaning towards. I will probably wait until I get a house with a garage and then build an iso box the size of an SUV where the mics won’t be choked. For now living in an apartment IR are the best option - maybe reamp in a commercial facility using real cabs and mics.
 
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