What's The Deal With Mesa V30's?

[sixstrings]

Mesa says they use Celestion Vintage 30's, but is there something different about the V30's they use with the Black Shadow sticker and Celestion V30's? My recto cab came with Celestion V30's but have the black shadow sticker on them. They sound like V30's to me, but I haven't directly compared them to other V30's. Anybody know about this?

 

[ericsabbath]

they are 70w V30's, just like the Marshall and Hellatone ones

 

[glassjaw7]

Not sure man My recto cab has regular english v30's

 

[steve_k]

Nothing wrong. I just bought 3 brnd new Mesa Recto 4x12 straight cabs. They sizzle and got plenty of thump. Was going to X pattern some G12T75's in there, but not worth messing with.

Steve

 

[D-Rock]

Cabs made by Mesa post 2004 have 70 watt Vintage 30's. I'm not sure why or what the difference is.

I did read once that the Mesa MC-90 is simply a CL-80 that Mesa tweaked and added 10 watts to.

 

[liamlw]

this is what i got from celestion about marshalls v30s.

Apart from the cosmetics it is identical to a Vintage 30. Marshall have
done lots of testing with their amps and cabs and feel OK to rate it at
70W but we rate the V30 at 60W because some amps and cabs give the
speaker harsher treatment than others.

 

[Valtiel]

they are 70w V30's, just like the Marshall and Hellatone ones

Just to clarify, the Avatar Hellatone 60's fall into two different categories. Regular Hellatone 60's are normal Vintage 30's, nothing special about them. The Hellatone 60L's are rated at 70watts AND have a different dust cap. These are the ones specially made for Marshall, and AFAIK are not the same as the ones Mesa uses.

Hellatone 60:

Hellatone 60L:

 

[Random Hero]

I always thought they sounded a bit different too.

 

[EXPcustom]

After 2003 they are all made in China, Mesa has Celestion finish their V30 frames in the UK but its still Chinese sheet metal since the stamping facilities went to China. Once a company moves to China the steel is poor quality just look at our Bay Bridge.

Low carbon content is why the Chinese steel sucks, in the USA and the UK most steel is around 30% carbon content in sheetmetal applications. Chinese steel is 6% Carbon content tops, most is just food grade or medical grade 3% Carbon sheetmetal.

 

[thegame]

After 2003 they are all made in China, Mesa has Celestion finish their V30 frames in the UK but its still Chinese sheet metal since the stamping facilities went to China. Once a company moves to China the steel is poor quality just look at our Bay Bridge.

Low carbon content is why the Chinese steel sucks, in the USA and the UK most steel is around 30% carbon content in sheetmetal applications. Chinese steel is 6% Carbon content tops, most is just food grade or medical grade 3% Carbon sheetmetal.

Is not the Heritage series 100 % made in U.K. ?

Anyway, Mesa also has it in their contract with Celestion that they use old-fashioned, slow drying glue in the Mesa branded V30 and MC90s. Glue composition is a critical element in speaker construction.

 

[EXPcustom]

After 2003 they are all made in China, Mesa has Celestion finish their V30 frames in the UK but its still Chinese sheet metal since the stamping facilities went to China. Once a company moves to China the steel is poor quality just look at our Bay Bridge.

Low carbon content is why the Chinese steel sucks, in the USA and the UK most steel is around 30% carbon content in sheetmetal applications. Chinese steel is 6% Carbon content tops, most is just food grade or medical grade 3% Carbon sheetmetal.

Is not the Heritage series 100 % made in U.K. ?

Anyway, Mesa also has it in their contract with Celestion that they use old-fashioned, slow drying glue in the Mesa branded V30 and MC90s. Glue composition is a critical element in speaker construction.

No the metal frames are all stamped in China. Celestion no longer has any of their sheet metal stamping dies in the UK.

The rest of the speaker for the Heritage and Mesa series is made in the UK. I would rather have good metal frame with my speakers.

 

[thegame]

After 2003 they are all made in China, Mesa has Celestion finish their V30 frames in the UK but its still Chinese sheet metal since the stamping facilities went to China. Once a company moves to China the steel is poor quality just look at our Bay Bridge.

Low carbon content is why the Chinese steel sucks, in the USA and the UK most steel is around 30% carbon content in sheetmetal applications. Chinese steel is 6% Carbon content tops, most is just food grade or medical grade 3% Carbon sheetmetal.

Is not the Heritage series 100 % made in U.K. ?

Anyway, Mesa also has it in their contract with Celestion that they use old-fashioned, slow drying glue in the Mesa branded V30 and MC90s. Glue composition is a critical element in speaker construction.

No the metal frames are all stamped in China. Celestion no longer has any of their sheet metal stamping dies in the UK.

The rest of the speaker for the Heritage and Mesa series is made in the UK. I would rather have good metal frame with my speakers.

Well thats certainly interesting and good to know. Were the frames outsourced since 2003 as well ?

 

[EXPcustom]

After 2003 they are all made in China, Mesa has Celestion finish their V30 frames in the UK but its still Chinese sheet metal since the stamping facilities went to China. Once a company moves to China the steel is poor quality just look at our Bay Bridge.

Low carbon content is why the Chinese steel sucks, in the USA and the UK most steel is around 30% carbon content in sheetmetal applications. Chinese steel is 6% Carbon content tops, most is just food grade or medical grade 3% Carbon sheetmetal.

Is not the Heritage series 100 % made in U.K. ?

Anyway, Mesa also has it in their contract with Celestion that they use old-fashioned, slow drying glue in the Mesa branded V30 and MC90s. Glue composition is a critical element in speaker construction.

No the metal frames are all stamped in China. Celestion no longer has any of their sheet metal stamping dies in the UK.

The rest of the speaker for the Heritage and Mesa series is made in the UK. I would rather have good metal frame with my speakers.

Well thats certainly interesting and good to know. Were the frames outsourced since 2003 as well ?

Celestion USA anounced it back in 2003 I think there is a post on TGP about it. They make is sound like the entire speakers for Mesa and Heritage series are still 100% made in the UK but they are not because the metal frames are entirely made in China. They took their entire sheet metal facility in 2003, tooling and all to China so they no longer have the ability to stamp frames in the UK.

 

[NewWorldMan]

Anyway, Mesa also has it in their contract with Celestion that they use old-fashioned, slow drying glue in the Mesa branded V30 and MC90s. Glue composition is a critical element in speaker construction.

This is much more crucial than a frame holding a speaker. I'd be much more worried about how my speaker was made and the effect it has on my tone than whether or not the frame holding my speaker was going to corrode after 200 years instead of 210 (random numbers). I knew I shouldn't have left my cab in the back of my space cruiser! Maybe we should analyze the ink on the stamps next. I hear that Marshall's Celestions use a low grade ink made in Indonesia when stamping serial numbers on the frame as opposed to Mesa that uses ink from a US factory in Nashville. I don't want no stinking Indonesian ink on my frame...

My point is who cares if it sounds good and gives you the tone you want? We should worry more about playing guitar and making music than whether or not our speaker frame can last 210 years instead of 200. If it sounds good, that's all that matters. You're not going to have any reliability issues with any frame that Celestion ships in your lifetime, your kid lifetime, you grandkids, lifetime, etc.

 

[thegame]

This is much more crucial than a frame holding a speaker. I'd be much more worried about how my speaker was made and the effect it has on my tone than whether or not the frame holding my speaker was going to corrode after 200 years instead of 210 (random numbers). I knew I shouldn't have left my cab in the back of my space cruiser! Maybe we should analyze the ink on the stamps next. I hear that Marshall's Celestions use a low grade ink made in Indonesia when stamping serial numbers on the frame as opposed to Mesa that uses ink from a US factory in Nashville. I don't want no stinking Indonesian ink on my frame...

My point is who cares if it sounds good and gives you the tone you want? We should worry more about playing guitar and making music than whether or not our speaker frame can last 210 years instead of 200. If it sounds good, that's all that matters. You're not going to have any reliability issues with any frame that Celestion ships in your lifetime, your kid lifetime, you grandkids, lifetime, etc.

I see your point. But I wonder if a frame made with less rigid steel might flex, or impart some sympathetic vibrations when you've really got it loud and cranking. Its probably not an issue, but my Tone chasing OCD mind cannot help but ponder this

 

[NewWorldMan]

I see your point. But I wonder if a frame made with less rigid steel might flex, or impart some sympathetic vibrations when you've really got it loud and cranking. Its probably not an issue, but my Tone chasing OCD mind cannot help but ponder this

I understand where you're coming from. I think a company that's so picky down to the glue that's used would certainly not agree to anything in another part of the construction unless they were 100% behind it.

 

[EXPcustom]

Anyway, Mesa also has it in their contract with Celestion that they use old-fashioned, slow drying glue in the Mesa branded V30 and MC90s. Glue composition is a critical element in speaker construction.

This is much more crucial than a frame holding a speaker. I'd be much more worried about how my speaker was made and the effect it has on my tone than whether or not the frame holding my speaker was going to corrode after 200 years instead of 210 (random numbers). I knew I shouldn't have left my cab in the back of my space cruiser! Maybe we should analyze the ink on the stamps next. I hear that Marshall's Celestions use a low grade ink made in Indonesia when stamping serial numbers on the frame as opposed to Mesa that uses ink from a US factory in Nashville. I don't want no stinking Indonesian ink on my frame...

My point is who cares if it sounds good and gives you the tone you want? We should worry more about playing guitar and making music than whether or not our speaker frame can last 210 years instead of 200. If it sounds good, that's all that matters. You're not going to have any reliability issues with any frame that Celestion ships in your lifetime, your kid lifetime, you grandkids, lifetime, etc.

We are not talking about ink we are talking about a major component of the speaker. Thats like saying a guitar's wood does not matter as long as the hardware, pickups and electronics are all quality US or German made.

If you saw low carbon Chinese sheetmetal next to American 4130 side by side you would know how much of a huge diffrence this is. I can tak a 1mm thick piece of low carbon Chinese steel and bend it with my hands no problem, I can't do this with 4130 unless I use a break to bend it. Most people dont know or care about metallurgy or its role in industrial components, it takes things like a bridge to fall into the water before people realize they are getting screwed.

 

[EXPcustom]

I see your point. But I wonder if a frame made with less rigid steel might flex, or impart some sympathetic vibrations when you've really got it loud and cranking. Its probably not an issue, but my Tone chasing OCD mind cannot help but ponder this

I understand where you're coming from. I think a company that's so picky down to the glue that's used would certainly not agree to anything in another part of the construction unless they were 100% behind it.

I can be behind a lot of things if I am getting paid enough. I used to quote and get things made with this Chinese steel and the cost savings for the company is so huge that they will figure out a way to market the change to their customers to justify the move i.e. we kept the glues the same (big whoop)

Since most people dont really know about carbon content percentages in steel they think this is no big deal.

 

[thegame]

If you saw low carbon Chinese sheetmetal next to American 4130 side by side you would know how much of a huge diffrence this is. I can tak a 1mm thick piece of low carbon Chinese steel and bend it with my hands no problem, I can't do this with 4130 unless I use a break to bend it. Most people dont know or care about metallurgy or its role in industrial components, it takes things like a bridge to fall into the water before people realize they are getting screwed.

I do not doubt the inferiority of Chinese steel for a second, but I honestly wonder if it matters in the normal operation of a speaker.

 

[NewWorldMan]

We are not talking about ink we are talking about a major component of the speaker. Thats like saying a guitar's wood does not matter as long as the hardware, pickups and electronics are all quality US or German made.

If you saw low carbon Chinese sheetmetal next to American 4130 side by side you would know how much of a huge diffrence this is. I can tak a 1mm thick piece of low carbon Chinese steel and bend it with my hands no problem, I can't do this with 4130 unless I use a break to bend it. Most people dont know or care about metallurgy or its role in industrial components, it takes things like a bridge to fall into the water before people realize they are getting screwed.

Thegame hits on exactly what I'm talking about. Is there a difference? Sure. Does it really matter in terms of a guitar speaker? No. We're just worrying and spinning quality conspiracy theories where no issues are known to exist.

Have you heard any complaints about Celestions falling apart from people touring the world and abusing them since 2003, or heard even a single complaint from anyone...ever...about a frame bending or warping? Those cabs/speakers have been toured around the world, tossed in and out of vans and planes by roadies who don't gently handle them and blasted in everything from bars to arenas with all sorts of head units pummeling them and there's never been quality concerns or complaints.

My point is there's no use in looking for a problem where one isn't known to exist. If you like an amp or cab and enjoy it's sound, play it...