When you think "boxy" amp, what comes to mind

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itsgoodnow

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We have a lot of threads comparing a lot of descriptors of amps--things like "bigness" or "play feel" but I can't recall seeing one on amps that come across as boxy. Thought I would see what comes to mind for you all.
 
DanTravis62 said:
Combo amps with small speakers, cheap solid state amps with cheap speakers

I generally define boxy as "lacking high highs and low lows"

Very common in grab-n-go TGP combos like the milkman, quilter cabinets, DV marks with neo speakers, etc
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Yep, this is it. And enclosures like these tend to not just narrow the bandwidth of the rig, but even within the scope of what you hear, you'll get an unnatural sounding emphasis on low mids that tend to bloat the sound without adding any additional body or heft to it.

In the room, it will sound like you're hearing way too much of the speaker enclosure itself, like the actual boards of the cabinet, resonating as opposed to the core sound of the amp.
 
TheGreatGreen said:
Yep, this is it. And enclosures like these tend to not just narrow the bandwidth of the rig, but even within the scope of what you hear, you'll get an unnatural sounding emphasis on low mids that tend to bloat the sound without adding any additional body or heft to it.

In the room, it will sound like you're hearing way too much of the speaker enclosure itself, like the actual boards of the cabinet, resonating as opposed to the core sound of the amp.
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100%. It sounds like you're listening to the enclosure because of the weird emphasis on "lows" which are actually low mids
 
DanTravis62 said:
Combo amps with small speakers, cheap solid state amps with cheap speakers

I generally define boxy as "lacking high highs and low lows"

Very common in grab-n-go TGP combos like the milkman, quilter cabinets, DV marks with neo speakers, etc
Click to expand...
Like I said, "you're left with mids." I guess some people only hear mids. The rest of your post would only make it worse.
 
No one should have to endure what we've been through. Some people's kids have tortured our poor souls!!
 
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Boxiness is when the 200-500Hz range is too prominent compared to the rest of the signal. Typically more of a cab thing than an amp issue.

Mixing and mastering engineers often dip in that region for this very reason - either certain instruments or across the entire mix. In fact "death to 300" was an in-joke of a few big names back in the day.

Not that this is the place, or anyone asked... but this has been pretty handy for me when trying to 'describe' sound:

Sub Bass 0-40Hz
Lower Bass 40-80
Centre Bass 80-160
Upper Bass 160-300
Lower Mids 300-600
Centre Mids 600-2k
Upper Mids 2-4k
Presence 4-6k
Brillance 6-20k

This is why saying "mids" doesn't mean a whole lot really. 300Hz-4k is a massive range - especially for guitar.
 
ZEN Amps said:
Boxiness is when the 200-500Hz range is too prominent compared to the rest of the signal. Typically more of a cab thing than an amp issue.

Mixing and mastering engineers often dip in that region for this very reason - either certain instruments or across the entire mix. In fact "death to 300" was an in-joke of a few big names back in the day.

Not that this is the place, or anyone asked... but this has been pretty handy for me when trying to 'describe' sound:

Sub Bass 0-40Hz
Lower Bass 40-80
Centre Bass 80-160
Upper Bass 160-300
Lower Mids 300-600
Centre Mids 600-2k
Upper Mids 2-4k
Presence 4-6k
Brillance 6-20k

This is why saying "mids" doesn't mean a whole lot really. 300Hz-4k is a massive range - especially for guitar.
Click to expand...

I think the emphasis of those frequencies is a side effect of "boxiness", not the boxiness itself

The problem is the lack of low lows and high highs, so yes, in this situation mids IS the correct term because it's literally all that's left

The reason those frequencies are prevalent (200-500hz) is because "boxy" amps literally cannot produce any frequencies BELOW that, and those become the default "lows" of the amp
 
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DanTravis62 said:
I think the emphasis of those frequencies is a side effect of "boxiness", not the boxiness itself

The problem is the lack of low lows and high highs, so yes, in this situation mids IS the correct term because it's literally all that's left

The reason those frequencies are prevalent (200-500hz) is because "boxy" amps literally cannot produce any frequencies BELOW that, and those become the default "lows" of the amp
Click to expand...

Yeah fair enough. I mostly agree - for a small amp or combo the lack of lows makes the low mids the actual 'bass' as you've described.

But a 412 can still sound boxy (in a different way) if for whatever reason it has too much going on around ~300Hz. A good rig in a shit room for example, or one dialled in badly. I thought the Uber Twin Jet always sounded boxy through most cabs, just something in those low mids.

Maybe boxy should just be for small boxes, and for big ones I need a better word... murky?
 
interesting to see it laid out like that, thanks @ZEN Amps. Boxy, "cardboard", etc., makes sense.
 
This is how I voice amps which is interesting to see how different it is from a studio perspective.

Wasted Power 1-10Hz
Lower Bass 11-79
Bass 80-300
Lower Mids 301-860
Center Mids 861-1400
Upper Mids 1401-3k
Highs 3k-6k
Brilliance 6k-10k
Wasted Power 10k+

The hard part is getting all of this to stick and not be flubby, boxy, shrill, all words that describe amplifiers with poor design characteristics. Some would argue my table is impossible due to blocking distortion and you’d be very correct to try to attempt it without knowledge of what you’re doing.
 
DanTravis62 said:
I played in a cover band with a guy like this. He played one of those quilter SS combo amps. His tone offended my soul
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Someone at a jam had a Quitter 101. Supposed to "nail those Fender blackface tones". The OD on it was embarrassingly bad. In three songs I couldn't dial in anything that was passable. It was either to harsh on top or muddy as hell. There was no sweet spot. I've heard dudes use them for jazz/clean tones and they sounded alright but man, those overdrive sounds are pathetic.
 
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