TheBiggestJerk
Well-known member
A fair question.
theclev
Well-known member
I'm glad to not have the be the one to figure that question out.
Findthetone1
Well-known member
The Bill of Rights is only the first 10 amendments.
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
The right answer isn’t up there.
US citizens only. Don’t matter if you’re born here. And legal US residents aren’t necessarily citizens
US citizens only. Don’t matter if you’re born here. And legal US residents aren’t necessarily citizens
TheBiggestJerk
Well-known member
Yep. I didn’t know that, but I’m sure you can sense my intent.
psychodave
Well-known member
What if you're here on a LEGAL visa for a short time, rights certainly some apply even thought you aren't a citizen.
For example, you have the right to due process, however, you do not have the right to vote.
For example, you have the right to due process, however, you do not have the right to vote.
TheBiggestJerk
Well-known member
Due process - if your chose to go that route includes entering legally with passport/visa, (not through a hole in a fence or in the back of a shipping container) filing applications for residency, asylum student/work permit, etc… if one chooses to not go through the legal process then due process doesn’t apply… a person is not different than an escaped fugitive on the lam.
SatanicPanic
Member
The Constitution and its ammendments applies to everyone in the US, although certain rights are exclusive to legal citizens. Everyone has a right to due process regardless of legal status. Pundits and politicians are lying when they say they don't.
TheBiggestJerk
Well-known member
So what’s the due process “they’re entitled too”?
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
Show me in the constitution or the bill of rights where it says it applies to anyone except US citizens. I'm specifically interested in anything that says people can enter the country illegally and then be afforded "Due process".
This is the latest media hyped leftist excuse for the dude Trump deported to Venezuela. The guy who already had 2 deportation orders from 2 different judges prior to his deportation.
Make no mistake, democrats do not care about any of the dangers of letting 13 million people slip across the border unvetted. Their goal is to transform America. Remember when Obama said "We are going to fundamentally transform America" ? Who is it you think has been running this shit show ?
SatanicPanic
Member
Fifth Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Fourteenth Amendment
Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Note the distinction in parts that refer to "citizens" vs "persons".
Affirmation that "aliens" (illegal immigrants) have a reasonable guarantee of Due Process and Equal Protection can be found in
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt5-6-2-3/ALDE_00013726/
Due Process and Equal Protection are necessary for non-citizens. It ensures that their rights are preserved through the legal process of deportation. That's not my interpretation, it's what the courts have upheld.
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
Specious argument at best. It's like those who argue that the word "People" in the 2A doesn't mean the same thing as people or persons elsewhere in the BOR.
Common sense would lead one to believe however that the framers of the constitution didn't intend to codify mistreatment of non citizens where the deprivation of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is concerned.
SatanicPanic
Member
Okay, well the courts don't agree with that. They have upheld that all persons within the jurisdiction of the US are afforded Due Process and Equal Protection regardless of legal status. That's the law and the correct answer to the question posed.
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
Another specious argument. Within the jurisdiction denotes legally residing within.
To Psaki back to the Venezuelan dude in question, it's worth a reminder that he was afforded due process. Twice. And still a majority of the supreme court that you guys claim is radically conservative has encouraged the DOJ to make an effort to return him to the US.
Regardless of John Roberts' grandiosity and arrogance, we are not ruled by black robed judges.
SatanicPanic
Member
No, within the jurisdiction means that US laws and rights apply to that person. That is independent of legal status and that is well established through the courts. It's the reason I can't go out and murder an illegal immigrant because that would be a criminal violation of their right to life. The only way that happens is if that person is subject to the jurisdiction of US law.
You seem to think I'm giving a legal interpretation here and I'm not. It's already been made long ago.
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
It's actually "Subject to the jurisdiction". And yes, as it pertains to the 14th, there is precedence. It's also erroneous.
NowYou'rePlayingWithPower
Well-known member
Why do people join this site only to be part of OTC?
SatanicPanic
Member
I joined this forum because it seems more open minded to off topic discussions than other gear forums, even though I might disagree with a lot of viewpoints expressed here. I mean, if you guys don't like having new members that's cool. I don't have an agenda other than to talk to other musicians. I can discuss meaningless gear topics on half a dozen other forums. That's pretty boring, though.
Floyd Eye
Well-known member
Let’s take about satanism. That will definitely be a 10 page thread at least.
SatanicPanic
Member
The dark lord respects your agency and determination to live an ethical and moral existence.