Who should cover PP fees when refunds are issued ?

[thegame]

Long story short, I ordered an uncompleted guitar from a private individual last summer. From day one I was assured my entire deposit would be refunded if anything went awry. It was supposed to be finished long ago by a third party luthier but excuse after excuse entailed. To the seller's credit, he offered a "seemingly" full refund after the second setback and I told him I'm a patient guy and willing to wait for the third party to get back on schedule. He happily agreed. Well, after some more excuses and setbacks, I accepted his latest offer of a refund. I was refunded, minus PP fees. I don't think I should have to eat these fees as he's the seller and I'm his "customer". What do you guys think ?

 

[NewWorldMan]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if he refunded your payment directly from the transaction, then PayPal would also return the fees to him. Example (sample numbers)...you paid $100, PayPal kept $3 in fees, and he received $97. If he refunds your transaction in full, you get your $100 back, and PayPal credits the $3, so only $97 is taken from his account.

In other words, it's like the transaction never happened.

 

[thegame]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if he refunded your payment directly from the transaction, then PayPal would also return the fees to him. Example (sample numbers)...you paid $100, PayPal kept $3 in fees, and he received $97. If he refunds your transaction in full, you get your $100 back, and PayPal credits the $3, so only $97 is taken from his account.

In other words, it's like the transaction never happened.

I understand that, but its beyond the 90 day or 6 month (whatever) time limit for that. I think he created a new transaction for the partial refund (for which he kept more than 3%, more like 5% or so). Do I have a basis to contact PP myself ?

 

[Candiria]

Are you sure he kept it and it wasn't taken out by PayPal? If he created a new transaction the fees were probably deducted from the amount he sent you.

 

[NewWorldMan]

In that case, I think he's completely in the wrong here. Not only did he state upfront you'd be returned your entire deposit, but after the deal was never completed, he kept even more fees than he was charged originally. Why in the hell is he keeping fees as part of this deal? He kept your money and never delivered a product. It's like you're paying him to borrow money from you for months and months. Makes no sense to me what he's doing.

Not sure what PayPal will do since it's outside the claim window. Can't hurt to call and ask, and at a minimum, I'd politely remind the seller that it was never stated you'd pay fees and were promised a full refund.

 

[thegame]

Are you sure he kept it and it wasn't taken out by PayPal? If he created a new transaction the fees were probably deducted from the amount he sent you.

He's saying now, for the first time, that my original PP payment to him had fees deducted, so he's refunding only what he originally received (remember, the numbers don't add quite up). Again, he's never stated this before and previously replied that he received my original payment in full. No mention of fees ever, in regard to him incurring them, or a potential future refund being issued minus fees of any kind. I see he's trying to cut his losses (and there are losses) but that should not be on me.

 

[Racerxrated]

In that case, I think he's completely in the wrong here. Not only did he state upfront you'd be returned your entire deposit, but after the deal was never completed, he kept even more fees than he was charged originally. Why in the hell is he keeping fees as part of this deal? He kept your money and never delivered a product. It's like you're paying him to borrow money from you for months and months. Makes no sense to me what he's doing.

Not sure what PayPal will do since it's outside the claim window. Can't hurt to call and ask, and at a minimum, I'd politely remind the seller that it was never stated you'd pay fees and were promised a full refund.

This!

 

[jcj]

If I were in your position, and being refunded after the six month window, I wouldn’t sweat the few percent deduction; the transaction could have ended in a far worse manner.

No idea where you’re located, but if you’re in a different country than the “seller”, PayPal fees could have been higher than standard; sounds like a questionable transaction from the start.

 

[MrDowntown]

why would the "window for a claim" be closed?..somewhat rhetorical... you never received the guitar. the time frame for warranties don't typically begin until you've accepted/received the final/finished product. unless i misread...

you should receive full refund imo, he should argue fees disbursement with PP, not you

 

[glip22]

Couple ways to think about it. When it comes to placing deposits Paypal has some odd rules from what I remember.
It's best to contact Paypal and ask them. If he refunded your transaction then the fees automatically reverse.
The refund transaction window in the actual transaction doesn't go away after 90 days. He should have selected this to refund you and all fees are reversed. What he did was ass backwards.

I would speak with him about returning his refund and asking him to refund you properly. Or, if if it's not a lot of money, I might just forget it. Like Josh said it could have been much worse. Paypal gets very funny when it comes to deposits.

 

[thegame]

Thanks guys, really appreciate the advice. No its not a lot of money but what burns me is the BS excuses and guilt trip he's laying on me by saying he's stuck with parts (hardware) that he paid up front for (to be used in this guitar). Like its my fault his luthier backed out and he's out the money for unused parts. I also reluctantly sold some NOS tubes and other rare stuff to fund this guitar, so that adds salt to the wound as well.

Oh well, its not worth belaboring the point any more, fuck him.