Why is it acceptable to goop pedals, but not amps?

jmgman69

New member
psychodave":2u98p8t8 said:
Just curious.... I have seen pictures of Cameron amps with goop covering the mods and people flip out and think it is wrong or bad, yet I see a lot of effects pedals with goop on the boards, like Klon and Xotic, and not a word is said.

Why is one acceptable and the other not?
:LOL: :LOL: Goop point,I think neither is cool but that's me!!! :rock:
 

hellaboogie

New member
jmgman69":1u86ng4c said:
psychodave":1u86ng4c said:
Just curious.... I have seen pictures of Cameron amps with goop covering the mods and people flip out and think it is wrong or bad, yet I see a lot of effects pedals with goop on the boards, like Klon and Xotic, and not a word is said.

Why is one acceptable and the other not?
:LOL: :LOL: Goop point,I think neither is cool but that's me!!! :rock:
you beat me to it
 

JakeAC5253

New member
I think that is a valid question to ask. I've always wondered this myself. I'm not a really big fan of gooping, Its not like you are creating the electricity inside the unit, just crafting it to your desires (or someone else's if you don't have the best intentions). Though if I ever did have a custom design I would have to consider goop just because so many other people do it that because of that fact would make me a fool not to. My best guess at an actual answer to the question? Money? The difference between paying $200 for a bootlegged circuit vs. paying 4k for one?
 

Ayrton

Active member
Correct me if I am wrong, but what is the point? Anyone that really cared enough to copy the circuit is going to be crafty enough to remove the goop.

Who is going to service the unit (calm down Don :D) if the builder flakes or drops off the planet?
 

moltenmetalburn

Active member
It's not IMO.

Goop usually means there us nothing to hide, meaning that anyone who can identify the parts could have easily come to the same conclusion whether via trial and error or knowledge.
 

steve_k

New member
The only pedal I have bought that was gooped was the original run of Rocket Fuels. The last one I bought though was un-gooped. Guess he figured, what the hell? I guess as customers, we will have to ask before purchase if their stuff is gooped or not like holding the pickles at the Burger King drive through. Personally, I think the goop is so over the top for trying to protect their designs. However, if they need protecting, blacking out all the component values is an alternative that works a little better and is much more acceptable than throwing a wad of shit inside your new amp.

Steve
 

jcj

Well-known member
I'd be PISSED if I got a mod from somebody and they gooped the shit out of it; come to think of it, I've actually had that conversation :LOL: :LOL:

I don't know or care enough to reverse engineer anything, but the idea of someone putting epoxy all over my amp is not appealing :D
 

jcj

Well-known member
psychodave":trqyt0y1 said:
I understand the possibility of a pedal needing less service, but let's use Klon as an example. People spend $1,000 on a Klon...what happens if something goes wrong with it? Will the company fix it? If so will it still be worth $1,000? To me, goop is goop. A little or a lot...it's still goop. Also, who's to say an amp builder with the best business practices, but uses goop, drops dead? ;)

I agree: that's why I won't buy one, from anyone.

Especially an amp.
 

Chris6870

Well-known member
well with Xotic lets say, your buying it new that way. I think people get pissed when you send an amp that you own to someone for work and they take it upon themselves to goop the shit out of YOUR amp to hide the details of the work you paid for.
 

joepete77

New member
I think the reason its more acceptable is because a pedal circuit can be copied and cloned for just a few bucks in parts and anyone with just basic knowledge can do so. Amps on the other hand are a bit bigger of a task to take on and may require changes or service to the board and the goop makes that a pain in the ass, not to mention with cameron goops -many times he gooped amps that were sent in for mods and werent his. Also, I dont know if the pics I saw of his goop jobs were real on tgp but if they were then that is a fuckin discrace and there is no excuse for that sort of mess, I would be outraged if I got an amp and the board looked like that making any service next to impossible, he might as well have sealed the entire chassis in a block of quick dry cement which actually might look better then the amp in the pic on tgp.
 

petejt

Active member
psychodave":3kesnzwh said:
Just curious.... I have seen pictures of Cameron amps with goop covering the mods and people flip out and think it is wrong or bad, yet I see a lot of effects pedals with goop on the boards, like Klon and Xotic, and not a word is said.

Why is one acceptable and the other not?

I don't believe that any circuit gooping is acceptable.
 

Rogue

New member
BrokenFusion":24r0il08 said:
well with Xotic lets say, your buying it new that way. I think people get pissed when you send an amp that you own to someone for work and they take it upon themselves to goop the shit out of YOUR amp to hide the details of the work you paid for.
I'd be a bit ticked if that happened to my amp. IHaving the knowledge up front I'd either sell the amp or not have it modded if they refused to do it without the goop.
 

Gainfreak

New member
as we all know, gooping is just an attempt to hide certain ideas from people since you can't patent a circuit. It's more of a deterrent for people, which translates to ......if you want the knowledge, you're gonna have to work for it lol.

I don't think gooping is bad if it doesn't hinder servicing, although there are better methods of hiding your circuit.

With that said, and in playing devils advocate here. there is a difference between buying a KLON pedal that already has this done to it stock then sending YOUR AMP , which you own ,and having someone shit all over it with crap making it tough to service. I do think that if an amp modder decides to use that type of method, the consumer should be made away of this before the amp is sent. I do know of some transactions that were done by modders where the amp was gooped up without the owner ever knowing that this would be done to the amp, and to me, that's not cool at all. (Not saying that all modders aren't up front with this!!) With all this crap said, if people are made aware before hand and they send the amp in then no harm no foul and I can see why an amp modder would want to hide his/her circuit. That's just my 0.02
 

O'Rourke

Member
Gooping is BS either way, you pay for a mod not to have somebody render your amp an unserviceable time bomb. I guess in pedals the boards are small so they can be replaced a helluva lot cheaper than the main board in an amp so maybe people are more willing to let it slide?

Like I said, BS either way IMO. :thumbsdown:
 

Ventura

Well-known member
Rezamatix":7hteqqod said:
I dont care about goop. as long as it lands on her face im cool with it.
Or hair, you know, the "head and shoulders" zone... :LOL: :LOL:

Goop. I think pedals might be gooped more often than not due to the beating they take. I mean, think about it, they geet kicked, slammed, stepped on, and thrashed. All things considered, gooping probably keeps things in place. Goop in an amp?? Different story.

So Barzini, I see your liberal use of the term 'scameron' implies you take issue with Cameron amps and mods?? Interesting. I know nothing about Camerons other than what I've read here, but what's wit the 'scan' connotation??

Peace,
V.
 

Shark Diver

New member
IDK about this. Mods I think no goop. But your own product? I'd hate to spend forever testing caps and whatever, put out a product and have someone steal it and undersell me. Clones are no bueno to me.

It seems that a lot of guys here who wouldn't want their music downloaded for free have no issues with buying a clone, "because it's close enough and 1/2 the price".

But if there are better ways to hide your work I guess goop presents too many issues as listed here.
 

Tone Merchant

Active member
this well know guitar player told me about this guy building amps that were real cool and he suggested that I talk to this guy about Tone Merchants carrying his stuff. So I played one of his amps for about 1 minute and thought to myself. ok, hes cloning train wrecks and not doing a good job at that. The amp designer calls me and I say, so ur doing ur take on a train wreck? He gets really defensive until he realizes I know a little bit about amp building and he does the typical, "well its loosely based off a train wreck."

he then tells me that hes reluctant to send me an amp because he doesnt want Dave Friedman to get it and open it up and steal his design. After I caught my breath from laughing so hard, he told me he would send me an amp or two and that he would have to goop them to keep Dave from knowing his secrets. (again started choking from laughing) He finally asks me what dave does to hide his shit.

I said he doesnt do anything. I never heard from him again
 

Ayrton

Active member
Tone Merchant":86zaur4z said:
this well know guitar player told me about this guy building amps that were real cool and he suggested that I talk to this guy about Tone Merchants carrying his stuff. So I played one of his amps for about 1 minute and thought to myself. ok, hes cloning train wrecks and not doing a good job at that. The amp designer calls me and I say, so ur doing ur take on a train wreck? He gets really defensive until he realizes I know a little bit about amp building and he does the typical, "well its loosely based off a train wreck."

he then tells me that hes reluctant to send me an amp because he doesnt want Dave Friedman to get it and open it up and steal his design. After I caught my breath from laughing so hard, he told me he would send me an amp or two and that he would have to goop them to keep Dave from knowing his secrets. (again started choking from laughing) He finally asks me what dave does to hide his shit.

I said he doesnt do anything. I never heard from him again

Mint! :LOL: :LOL:
 
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