Why is Sm57 the industry standard?

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Killertone posted this video which is interesting. It got me thinking because i have never used a 57. I use a SM7B for close micing and it sounds like my in the room sound. It is smooth and doesn't add any fizziness or make it sound different in any way that i can detect. I suppose it could also be my room (my den or second living room). It is open to the rest of the house which is tile. Gives the room a natural reverb. The room is the opposite of what people tell you you want for recording. As loud as I play, the whole house shakes when I get up to about 117 dbs. It doesn't sound good, because dishes are rattling and shit, but if i stay down to 112 or less and tape the strings on my acoustic guitars, I am in business. But my point is, I have never used a 57, but when i hear clips with it a lot of the time, there is this fizziness that i don't hear in the in the room clips. Is that from close micing, or is that from the mic itself? I don't know why I chose the 7b instead, but I don't really focus too much on position of the mic to cone or distance from cab. I just throw the thing into position just eyeballing about 2 inches inside the outer rim of the cone and maybe 6" from cab, but mainly where ever the mic lands in the 10 seconds i will allow for positioning. I also put the mic at a 45 degree angle.
 

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So I went and shot a pic of the mic position just now. Look how far off the angle is from a 45. Like I said, I almost just throw the mic into position. This is 2.5" away from cab, and maybe 1" in from the outside of the speaker. And I would guess about a 150 degree angle. I have been using this position for a bit. That is on a K100. I had it on a v30 (they are in an x) which I love the sound of also. Obviously, you get a different sound from each speaker, but I am hearing both in the room, and so it is really similar to an in the room sound. The two speakers are just different shades of the same flavor.
The thing you hear all the time is how difficult it is to mic a cab. I don't experience that. I am far from a savant, so I believe it has to do with the mic. Maybe I will pick up a 57 just to see how horrible it is.
 
There's a certain crunch you can capture with an SM57, that makes it a very suitable 2nd violin to a better mic, when double-micing guitar cabs.

As an owner of both, I subscribe to Steve Albini's notion: The Beyer M201 is the mic that the SM57 aspires to be.
Since I also own the SM7B, it is indeed a very, big and smooth tone, no raspyness or anything, but for a certain Marshall-esque crunch, it may lack some of the kerrang you're looking for in a RECORDED guitar tone in a MIX.
I've learned the hard way that what sounds great in your ears in the room, and when recorded solo, can take up way too much 'mix real estate' and you'd be surprised how thin, nasal, scratchy some of the best recorded guitar sounds would sound when actually solo'd.
But since a good mixing engineer makes room for every instrument to create a cohesive balance, this often results in thinner guitar tones (more low-cut going on) than you'd normally like to hear.

A mic that is almost the best of both worlds is the Beyer M88; it conveys the 'crunch' better than an SM7B IMO, while retaining enough body and fullness, that a typically solo'd SM57 would lack.

One interesting test I've done when recording through a Two Notes Torpedo Live is to use a bigger amp (with big iron/big glass) for rhythm tones, to provide some girth and to use an Engl Ironball (20W, 2x EL84) for the lead tones. This way, without needing to EQ much, the leads don't fight for mushy lows and stand out better.
 
Yeah. I have no idea how well I would sit in a mix. I am a bedroom player. But I may send a song to a buddy that mixes his shit and see how bad mine sits. I think he would have trouble not just post processing it to sit anyway, but it would be interesting. Obviously, when you play alone, you are bass and low mid heavy. I am guilty of that without a doubt. Plus I play metal, so I have not problem being the bassist also.
 
Speeddemon said:
There's a certain crunch you can capture with an SM57, that makes it a very suitable 2nd violin to a better mic, when double-micing guitar cabs.

As an owner of both, I subscribe to Steve Albini's notion: The Beyer M201 is the mic that the SM57 aspires to be.
Since I also own the SM7B, it is indeed a very, big and smooth tone, no raspyness or anything, but for a certain Marshall-esque crunch, it may lack some of the kerrang you're looking for in a RECORDED guitar tone in a MIX.
I've learned the hard way that what sounds great in your ears in the room, and when recorded solo, can take up way too much 'mix real estate' and you'd be surprised how thin, nasal, scratchy some of the best recorded guitar sounds would sound when actually solo'd.
But since a good mixing engineer makes room for every instrument to create a cohesive balance, this often results in thinner guitar tones (more low-cut going on) than you'd normally like to hear.

A mic that is almost the best of both worlds is the Beyer M88; it conveys the 'crunch' better than an SM7B IMO, while retaining enough body and fullness, that a typically solo'd SM57 would lack.

One interesting test I've done when recording through a Two Notes Torpedo Live is to use a bigger amp (with big iron/big glass) for rhythm tones, to provide some girth and to use an Engl Ironball (20W, 2x EL84) for the lead tones. This way, without needing to EQ much, the leads don't fight for mushy lows and stand out better.
Click to expand...
I have also started messing with wall of sound. I have a di on the back of my amp. It is very close to my micd cab sound. The differences could be that i literally do not tinker with the software itself, so that is just the standard mic/cab/position. I understand what you mean by thin nasally tone sitting better in the mix. I would adjust my tone in a band situation if I had to, but I wouldn't like it...lmao. Interesting about the marshall being a weak point for the sm7b. I will have to try that. I really like that marshall sound. I feel like it is something i would fight with a little to get rid of that upper mid fizz. Also, I agree with more watts, more punch. Gotta have 150 watts to get nasty with that rhythm. I love it. I went from 100 watts to 50 watts in an Avenger. Night and day difference in low mids and punch.
 
In that vid the dark sounding one has to be broken. The bright one is what they’ve all sounded like to me over the years.
 
The reasons I love the SM7B for vocals are exactly why I don’t like it as a cab mic; just too smooth. It’s all I use for a vocal mic, though, screaming and singing. I have a love/hate thing with 57’s (which is my 2nd favorite vocal mic), sometimes the ice pick in the forehead thing works, sometimes it doesn’t. But when I’m tracking something low in volume but I’m right on the mic, I love the 57 for stuff like that.

I don’t worry about any of that these days, I just load up a killer sounding IR in the AxeFX and I’m good to go. (The blasphemy!)

Actually, I’ve used an SM7B on bass cabs a few times in the past and really dug the results.
 
@Smashedguitarist by moving a mic closer to the center of a speaker (more on-axis with the dustcap), you'll typically add more raspyness in the sound. If you're working with an amp that's almost piercingly bright, move more to the outer edge.

In a really good sounding room, you may end up using a condenser mic as a room mic, maybe a few feet from the cab.
Don't do this at home without proper absorption in a too small room. Your tone will most likely end up sounding boxy.

By the way, next to the SM57, a few other staples (dynamics) on guitar cabs are the Sennheiser MD409 (pretty rare these days) and e609/906 and the MD-421 (the black 'razor' looking one). Those Sennheisers will sound a bit bigger and less raspy than an SM57.

An MD-421 is pretty much always a nice addition if you're expanding your mic collection. Has so many uses... Vocals, bass guitar cab, kick drums, toms, saxophone, upright bass (yes, even as a metalhead I've done my fair share of jazz recordings years ago).
 
An SM57 attached to a quality mic pre is awesome.

The SM57's thing is bringing the 6KHz bite to your tone.
 
The Heil PR20 is good too if you want something like a smoother and fatter SM57-ish tone. And agree, the Beyer M201 is to-die-for as well.

I personally don't like the e609 pointed at Celestions with high-gain amps. Way too bright, IMO. Brighter than the SM57. The e906 is much better... but also more expensive. But neither resembles the 57 at all, IMO.
 
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I have a Rode K2. I have never used it because i am lazy and didn't want to try to figure out the preamp and settings. Plus the 7b works so well for vocals and the cab. I need to play with it, though. I even bought a nos tube to put in it. I probably would have tried it if the 7b didn't give me such a perfect rendition of what i am hearing
 
I was all about the SM57/MD421 combo back in the day until I found out Killswitch Engage used the SM7B on their cabs. Love 'em or hate 'em, you can't deny they have massive guitar tone. I gave it shot and its my go to now in place of the 57. Much more fuller and chunky. I will say though that the 57 has a nice bite and cut to it. When I used the 57/421 combo I would turn the 57 down some to blend in the back a bit with the 421 just to give the tone enough cut and not overpower, for my preference anyway.
 
Speeddemon said:
@Smashedguitarist by moving a mic closer to the center of a speaker (more on-axis with the dustcap), you'll typically add more raspyness in the sound. If you're working with an amp that's almost piercingly bright, move more to the outer edge.

In a really good sounding room, you may end up using a condenser mic as a room mic, maybe a few feet from the cab.
Don't do this at home without proper absorption in a too small room. Your tone will most likely end up sounding boxy.

By the way, next to the SM57, a few other staples (dynamics) on guitar cabs are the Sennheiser MD409 (pretty rare these days) and e609/906 and the MD-421 (the black 'razor' looking one). Those Sennheisers will sound a bit bigger and less raspy than an SM57.

An MD-421 is pretty much always a nice addition if you're expanding your mic collection. Has so many uses... Vocals, bass guitar cab, kick drums, toms, saxophone, upright bass (yes, even as a metalhead I've done my fair share of jazz recordings years ago)
Click to expand...

Speeddemon said:
@Smashedguitarist by moving a mic closer to the center of a speaker (more on-axis with the dustcap), you'll typically add more raspyness in the sound. If you're working with an amp that's almost piercingly bright, move more to the outer edge.

In a really good sounding room, you may end up using a condenser mic as a room mic, maybe a few feet from the cab.
Don't do this at home without proper absorption in a too small room. Your tone will most likely end up sounding boxy.

By the way, next to the SM57, a few other staples (dynamics) on guitar cabs are the Sennheiser MD409 (pretty rare these days) and e609/906 and the MD-421 (the black 'razor' looking one). Those Sennheisers will sound a bit bigger and less raspy than an SM57.

An MD-421 is pretty much always a nice addition if you're expanding your mic collection. Has so many uses... Vocals, bass guitar cab, kick drums, toms, saxophone, upright bass (yes, even as a metalhead I've done my fair share of jazz recordings years ago).
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips. I know next to nothing about micing. I will try going to the center a little too. Also, I will look into some of these other mics.
 
That first mic sounds like what I'd expect from a 57. The second one sounds super fizzy (even for a 57). Every mic will sound different though, even by several dB in some frequencies. The 57 I use the most (I believe a '99) is much darker than others I've tried.

The older ones with two screw holes near the XLR connector are a bit brighter in my experience. I think they're from the 80s and 90s. Closer to a 545SD, but not as nice.
 
You said it yourself, your a bedroom player. You pull out 6k, not really worried about mic position etc: it’s because you have no real world experience with why a 57 works great and is the standard for a reason. No offense, I’m just saying you don’t know, what you don’t know. And forget that 2 mic crap, or using more than that etc. if it doesn’t sound big with one mic, it ain’t gonna be great with two: and more often than not, it’s gonna suck. In a mix/when tracking, it just works, especially for Metal/hard rock, period. Condenser mics, and all these other fancy mics etc are not used by the pros who can afford whatever they want more often than not, and for good reasons. Most of the time these other mics pick up too much of other frequencies that aren’t needed, and you are left after Eqing with frequencies that don’t work/cut right/sit properly. I’m sure someone will come in here and give me a list of records done with other mics, and that’s fine. But the reality is even still it’s all situational and sometimes certain combinations work for very very specific reasons that aren’t the norm, sure. But the big boys are often just using a 57 and spend hours putting it in the right spot to fit the tone they want: there’s gotta be a reason, right?
 
VESmedic said:
You said it yourself, your a bedroom player. You pull out 6k, not really worried about mic position etc: it’s because you have no real world experience with why a 57 works great and is the standard for a reason. No offense, I’m just saying you don’t know, what you don’t know. And forget that 2 mic crap, or using more than that etc. if it doesn’t sound big with one mic, it ain’t gonna be great with two: and more often than not, it’s gonna suck. In a mix/when tracking, it just works, especially for Metal/hard rock, period. Condenser mics, and all these other fancy mics etc are not used by the pros who can afford whatever they want more often than not, and for good reasons. Most of the time these other mics pick up too much of other frequencies that aren’t needed, and you are left after Eqing with frequencies that don’t work/cut right/sit properly. I’m sure someone will come in here and give me a list of records done with other mics, and that’s fine. But the reality is even still it’s all situational and sometimes certain combinations work for very very specific reasons that aren’t the norm, sure. But the big boys are often just using a 57 and spend hours putting it in the right spot to fit the tone they want: there’s gotta be a reason, right?
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I agree with you. I have no real world experience. I just hear a lot of clips of amps I have played, and I see people doing youtube videos that butcher the sound of the amp. Next to it, always the sm57. Maybe they are just trash at micing.
 
VESmedic said:
And forget that 2 mic crap, or using more than that etc. if it doesn’t sound big with one mic, it ain’t gonna be great with two: and more often than not, it’s gonna suck.
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Um...no. If you don't know what you're doing, yeah it will double suck. Otherwise, you get some huge tones by miking up another speaker or even having a room mic set low in the mix. On another note, I've never been a fan of the fredman technique for high gain tones.
 
Purity said:
Um...no. If you don't know what you're doing, yeah it will double suck. Otherwise, you get some huge tones by miking up another speaker or even having a room mic set low in the mix. On another note, I've never been a fan of the fredman technique for high gain tones.
Click to expand...
I have thought of this. Would be cool to mic both the V30 and K100 and blend them. They both sound nice.
 
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