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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 14, 2020 3:32pm 
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Hi, i was playing thru the clean channel 1 of my Herbert and i noticed the amp was making a dirty colouring sound when i strummed barely hard a chord or notes... something like it was on channel 2-, a clipping sound. I tried changing both guitar and cable but the unwanted distortion kept coming.
If i play lightly it stays clean, but if i raise the power of the touch, it comes the distortion.
Power tubes are quite new as i replaced them not long ago.
Preamp tubes are stock from day one.
Might the distortion/break up come from one of the preamp tube?
Thanx

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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 14, 2020 8:01pm 
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No effects in front or in the loops?? Just direct into amp?? Amp then to single 412 cabinet or...??

Please let us know.

Unkle Mo

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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 15, 2020 1:13am 
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i was initially playing with the effects On, in the parallel effect Loop - and switchable send connection.
Then i shut off the effect to test the amp alone, and played it straight, no effects, the cab is a 2x12. The unwanted distortion was still there

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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 15, 2020 1:34am 
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So guitar + cord into amp. No effects in loops. No effects in front. Just a guitar, cable and amp.

Does the distortion oly happen on Ch.1?
Does the rest of the amp sound at all different than before?

Likely V1 preamp tube, but could also be components.

Have you tested for microphonics?? As well, have you tried a couple different guitars??

V1, Phase Inverter, or component. If only on clean channel. If effects at all on, could be tube buffer tube.

Do you have a spare 12AX7 tube?? Might be worth trying - but before you replace - try the amp on low volume, guitar and cab plugged in, rear panel of Herbert off, and just tap the preamp tubes. Bad tubes make a loud noise when tapped with a standard pencil. Always good to check. If you have a spare 12AX7 tube, with amp off, replace V1 (closest preamp tube to the guitar input jack), and try. If sound is better, you may want to replace all the bottles in your amp - do you know how old the tubes are??

Phase Inverter would effect all channels - but it is a very heavily used tube. I always change my PI tube when changing power-tubes.

Let us know.
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 15, 2020 11:15am 
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thanx for the help, i think i've solved the issue :doh: tomorrow the final test ;) :rock:

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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 15, 2020 6:52pm 
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diezel&gas wrote:
thanx for the help, i think i've solved the issue :doh: tomorrow the final test ;) :rock:

Glad to be of service, and please do let us know what the solution was...even if it was user error - it's helpful to everyone experiencing similar issues and using the "Search" function.

We're a community here.

Glad your Diezel is back up and kicking sonic ass!! :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 16, 2020 12:46pm 
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Sure! I still have to check again, but the result of that noise was probably simply a dead battery of the active pick ups in my guitar. Sometimes they fools me... So nothing to do with the amp.
Asaic i'll get another one to try with the same guitar.

To check properly the cause of the noise, yesterday i plugged another guitar with passive pick ups and that noise didn't show, so it must be that ( dead battery on the active pick up equipped guitar), plain and simple.

The other day, when i opened the topic i was sure the noise was present on the guitar with passive pick ups as well, just because i was playing clean, but at a little high volume and something in my room was shaking/vibrating (a shelf) that's why i was hearing bad sounds, those noises distracted me :lol: :LOL:

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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 16, 2020 12:56pm 
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:lol: :LOL: Well that was an EASY solution!!

Glad you figured it out, and yes, a low powered pup can definitely be problematic. Always good to have a couple guitars to check out the issue.

Keep us posted if anything changes and rock on! :rock:

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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 16, 2020 1:56pm 
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Hi again, i just turned off the amp....i made another quick test.. because i had a thought in my mind... This last one was made with the guitar w/passive pickups.
So, the cracking noise comes only with the effect processor ( rocktron xpression) engaged. If for instance i'm on ch1 with no effects (so the loop is off), the amp sounds fine, also on any other channel; if i engage the Xpression by the loop effects via midi pedalboard, let's say on Ch1, the noise comes randomly depending how much hard i strum a note or a chord, and it comes and go whenever it wants.
I tried swapping the connection cables between the effect processors and amp send + return but nothing have changed.
I tried to gently touch the cables while playing to see if the noise would happen or modify its presence but with no reaction.

What the problem could be now?

a) Effect processor connection cables damaged; b ) Effect processor unit alone ; c) Preamp tube, maybe V5?

Talking about the guitar with active pickups, that might be a different issue, still to be verified because with it, the bad sound came with the effect processor totally off.


:( :no: :aww:

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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 16, 2020 7:21pm 
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Hmmmmm.

V5 & V6 are responsible for send and return for the loop.
V1 is obviously not JUST for clean, but ALL channels go through V1.

However, if this is ONLY happening with the effects engaged, I would suggest two things:
- do you have any other FX, doesn't matter, reverb, delay, etc. that you could try IN the loop other than the Rocktron? If so, try that.
- plugged DIRECTLY into the amp, and with just a cable between the LOOP send-return in question, is there still a crackling??

Anyway - do you have some extra 12AX7 tubes kicking around??
I'd try replacing V5 & V6 if this is an effects/loop issue only after making sure (via direct cable or a different unit) that it's not the Rocktron itself.

And you can't hear this problem on Ch.2, 3 or 4 with the Rocktron engaged??

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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 17, 2020 2:41pm 
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Hi there, i have 2 news, a good one and a bad one. The good is i solved the guitar problem, yes, it was a dead battery causing the unwanted distortion, it was dead indeed as it was kinda exploded...one of its pole was broken too...

The bad one is that the amp fx section (or the external Fx unit) issue, still make the crackling and shutting noise. It seems it has also got worse, when the problem appears, it stays longer.... maybe its a preamp tube near its end of life.
I tried changing cables with others functioning but with no good result.
I tried the amp thru each channel and the problem with the effect On appears in any of them. So it's an issue only with the Loop On. The amp sounds fine withouit the Xpression engaged by the Loop.

Yes I do have a big muff pedal to try if it's righ for the purpose..
Unfortunatelly i don't have any preamp tube to swap as a test.

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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 17, 2020 8:45pm 
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Wondering if spraying the cable end with Deoxit contact cleaner and working it in and out of the loop jacks might quiet things down.
I know when input jacks don't get used they tend to become noisy.

If you are able to do that just remember to spray it on the cable end then insert it several times to the input loop jacks...DONT SPRAY INTO THE input jack holes.

I even spray the pins on tubes and insert then just to clean them a bit.

Give the spray a few minutes to work before turning on the amp.


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PostPosted: Fri, Jan 17, 2020 9:07pm 
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diezel&gas wrote:
Hi there, i have 2 news, a good one and a bad one. The good is i solved the guitar problem, yes, it was a dead battery causing the unwanted distortion, it was dead indeed as it was kinda exploded...one of its pole was broken too...

The bad one is that the amp fx section (or the external Fx unit) issue, still make the crackling and shutting noise. It seems it has also got worse, when the problem appears, it stays longer.... maybe its a preamp tube near its end of life.
I tried changing cables with others functioning but with no good result.
I tried the amp thru each channel and the problem with the effect On appears in any of them. So it's an issue only with the Loop On. The amp sounds fine withouit the Xpression engaged by the Loop.

Yes I do have a big muff pedal to try if it's righ for the purpose..
Unfortunatelly i don't have any preamp tube to swap as a test.

Have you tried just using a jumper cable from send to return and engaging the loop to see if the noise is still there?? If it's not there with a jumped cable, then the FX unit has shit the bed. If the noise IS there, it's V5 + V6 tubes, likely. Or as the above post mentions, perhaps a lil DeOXIT would help...

Jumper the circuit and see if the noise is still there - that's the easiest.
Peace
Unkle Mo :rock:

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PostPosted: Sun, Jan 19, 2020 2:19am 
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Hello, i didn't try a deoxid spray, I'll do next.
About the cable, you mean to plug a cable with nothing in between from send to return, the same used at the moment by the FX unit?
I ask because I don't want to make a short circuit kind of connection :)

I tried to plug a big muff pedal, there was no noise but neither the distortion sound from the pedal ( maybe because it's not designed to work in parallel), it acted only like a volume pedal ( if I turned the pedal volume off, the volume went to zero, if at max the sound would pass thru).

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PostPosted: Sun, Jan 19, 2020 4:48pm 
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diezel&gas wrote:
About the cable, you mean to plug a cable with nothing in between from send to return, the same used at the moment by the FX unit?
I ask because I don't want to make a short circuit kind of connection :)

No short circuit will occur - just think about how many pedals out there are "true bypass" - same thing.

diezel&gas wrote:
I tried to plug a big muff pedal, there was no noise but neither the distortion sound from the pedal ( maybe because it's not designed to work in parallel), it acted only like a volume pedal ( if I turned the pedal volume off, the volume went to zero, if at max the sound would pass thru).

Sounds to be as though the parallel loop is working fine, but your Rocktron Effects unit is dodgy. Have you tried using the Rocktron unit "in front" of the amp?? Anyway - ya, the BigMuff is hard to tell in the parallel loop - it's a preamp style stomp, not loop stomp - but by using "it" or just a plain jumper cable and manipulating the parallel loops dry/wet ratio and listening for any noise or the like, it'll indicate whether it's loop or V5/V6 related. But the fact you used a BigMuff in there, and there was no noise - my guess?? The Rocktron unit is scratchy.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jan 25, 2020 6:56am 
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Hi, I had the time to test the amp fx today, I used an electric contact cleaner as suggested.
At the beginning nothing changed, then after a while using the amp and fx the problem seems to be gone. I have to make multiple test so to say the problem is 100% solved but maybe we got it ;)

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PostPosted: Sun, Jan 26, 2020 4:06pm 
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diezel&gas wrote:
Hi, I had the time to test the amp fx today, I used an electric contact cleaner as suggested.
At the beginning nothing changed, then after a while using the amp and fx the problem seems to be gone. I have to make multiple test so to say the problem is 100% solved but maybe we got it ;)

Cool.

Did you ever try just a straight jumper cable with the loop initiated to ON...??

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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 27, 2020 2:43pm 
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diezel&gas wrote:
Hi, i was playing thru the clean channel 1 of my Herbert and i noticed the amp was making a dirty colouring sound when i strummed barely hard a chord or notes... something like it was on channel 2-, a clipping sound.

My 2003 Herbert original does the same thing, CH1. No worries, I look at it like painter Bob Ross, "We don't make mistakes, just happy little accidents and beat the devil out of it (brush)" and it merely adds more character to the little doer.

Ruby 12AX7CA5 high-grade+ in all 12 preamp section, just because and piece of mind. My Mk2 can't touch my original in my stereo rig. The spatial vibe is almost surreal (u4ia) in the studio. For those of you who know what I'm speaking of.


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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 27, 2020 3:20pm 
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Giga.Blast wrote:
diezel&gas wrote:
Hi, i was playing thru the clean channel 1 of my Herbert and i noticed the amp was making a dirty colouring sound when i strummed barely hard a chord or notes... something like it was on channel 2-, a clipping sound.

My 2003 Herbert original does the same thing, CH1. No worries, I look at it like painter Bob Ross, "We don't make mistakes, just happy little accidents and beat the devil out of it (brush)" and it merely adds more character to the little doer.

Ruby 12AX7CA5 high-grade+ in all 12 preamp section, just because and piece of mind. My Mk2 can't touch my original in my stereo rig. The spatial vibe is almost surreal (u4ia) in the studio. For those of you who know what I'm speaking of.

Tread carefully, Dave. Your response offers little with respect to alleviating the situation. It's not "just coloring" of the tone, we've got some amp specific noise happening. Don't be busting out the high-and-all-mighty Herbert Mk.1 is God nonsense here - we're all entitled to our own opinions, but we're here to also help fellow members with their specific amp related questions and concerns.

Next up, "spatial vibe in the studio"?? :confused:

And it's "peace" of mind, not "piece".

A nice day to you, Dave.
Unkle Mo

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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 27, 2020 3:27pm 
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Hi again I didn't try the cable loop test yet. I'll try it asap.
About the colouring sound, mentioned by Giga.Blast in the previous post, in my case that was caused by a dead battery using active pickups, and was solved.
The noise still present was/is a kind of going in and out of the volume paired by some random cracking popping sound.

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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 27, 2020 4:25pm 
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Ventura wrote:
.

Sincerely sorry daddy Fredo. Did you take off your propeller-head hat and put on your Homulus projection crown today for the new age of impeachment (Aoi), did yah venty? Huh? :aww: … I had thought that you had already in droves realized that you've failed miserably on Diezel patrol as a private, as well documented.

All your blabber mouthing around here for years and haven't heard a peep from you talent-wise. Whatever. blah-blah-blah...

Good day Sir~



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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 27, 2020 8:18pm 
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diezel&gas wrote:
Hi again I didn't try the cable loop test yet. I'll try it asap.
About the colouring sound, mentioned by Giga.Blast in the previous post, in my case that was caused by a dead battery using active pickups, and was solved.
The noise still present was/is a kind of going in and out of the volume paired by some random cracking popping sound.

Definitely give the loop-cable-jump a whirl, it should assist in determining where the issue derives.

Keep us posted.
Unkle Mo

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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 28, 2020 12:23pm 
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Basically it's as described in the manual of the Herbert, isn't it?

[3.2.3 Switch-able Loop as additional Volume Control Those of you who can live without processors in the parallel loop can use this loop for a second master volume for each channel. To do this, just loop a short 1/4” cable from the switch-able send to parallel loop return. Now you can choose a second master volume by turning the mix control past 1:00 PM to full open, and push the ‘ Loop” button to activate your second master volume. Now, with the loop activated, the mix control can act as another way to control volume.

I've done it. The cracking and shutting sound keep happening on this method too.
Especially with the mix control volume closed or near to 0.

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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 28, 2020 1:51pm 
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diezel&gas wrote:
Basically it's as described in the manual of the Herbert, isn't it?

[3.2.3 Switch-able Loop as additional Volume Control Those of you who can live without processors in the parallel loop can use this loop for a second master volume for each channel. To do this, just loop a short 1/4” cable from the switch-able send to parallel loop return. Now you can choose a second master volume by turning the mix control past 1:00 PM to full open, and push the ‘ Loop” button to activate your second master volume. Now, with the loop activated, the mix control can act as another way to control volume.

I've done it. The cracking and shutting sound keep happening on this method too.
Especially with the mix control volume closed or near to 0.

Awesome work!! This is the cleanest way to figure out the problem - because a 1/4" guitar cable is just a straight jump from send to return.

So the crackling noise happened here too only when the Parallel loop was engaged. Excellent. So we're back to looking for 2 replacement tubes - 12AX7 - Chinese are fine, JJ are fine, whatever you have - where do you live?? EDIT: Just saw you live in Italy...do you have a supplier for tubes over there?? service@diezelamplification.com will get you in touch with Diezel HQ. But there are a number of retailers online that service Europe for vacuum tubes. PM me for any specifics.

Preamps V5 and V6 are used for loop levels send/return buffer.
Depending on how old the amp is, might be a good idea to go with a new re-tube across the board.
But if this is happening with a jumper, all things being equal, and only happens with a cable in the parallel loop and parallel loop engaged, I'd isolate the 2 tubes V5 and V6 and that's that.

Let us know how it goes - as well, let us know if you need retailers for tubes. Low noise, high gain, decent quality is what you're looking for - Chinese, Ruby, JJ, whatevs - just decent 12AX7 tubes, that don't break the bank :yes:

Unkle Mo

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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 28, 2020 1:58pm 
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Perfect thank you. I live in Italy, when I had the power tubes changed, I bought them from Banzai store non Europe.
The amp is from 2010 I think, I still have to check it. I've never changed preamp tubes.
It would be great to have the total specs of the tubes to get.
For instance, the Diezel page suggests to get tubes with side B specs I didn't get that much, what does that mean? Is it a parameter to focus on? A number written in the back side of the tube itself?

Thanx again.

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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 28, 2020 3:59pm 
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If you are close enough to Venice I could take a look inside as well, please send me an email to leonardo@diezelamplification.com so I could give you my number as well.

As for the preamp tubes those are the default, but for diagnosis purpose anything would work:

V1: https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/7025-high ... mber=RT010
Other: https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/shuguang- ... mber=NN001


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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 28, 2020 7:32pm 
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diezel&gas wrote:
Perfect thank you. I live in Italy, when I had the power tubes changed, I bought them from Banzai store non Europe.
The amp is from 2010 I think, I still have to check it. I've never changed preamp tubes.
It would be great to have the total specs of the tubes to get.
For instance, the Diezel page suggests to get tubes with side B specs I didn't get that much, what does that mean? Is it a parameter to focus on? A number written in the back side of the tube itself?

Thanx again.

As per Leo's message below, the amp is happy to take any high-gain, low-noise 12AX7 style tube. The Chinese/Shuguang designations of A/B/C are nothing to worry about. The most common is the Shuguang/Chinese 12AX7B, the TAD mentioned below in V1 is likely a rebranded Chinese/Russian tube with exceptional gain/low-noise/zero-microphonics.
Leo Diezel wrote:
If you are close enough to Venice I could take a look inside as well, please send me an email to leonardo@diezelamplification.com so I could give you my number as well.

As for the preamp tubes those are the default, but for diagnosis purpose anything would work:

V1: https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/7025-high ... mber=RT010
Other: https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/shuguang- ... mber=NN001

Leo is nearby to you?? Try going with some new preamp tubes across the board (phase inverter is important, a lot of people use a SovtekLPS in that socket, but to each their own) as the amp could use some new pres after almost 10 years. If problem still exists, meet up with Leo.

Thanks for popping on Leo :thumbsup:
Unkle Mo

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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 04, 2020 2:49am 
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Leo Diezel wrote:
If you are close enough to Venice I could take a look inside as well, please send me an email to leonardo@diezelamplification.com so I could give you my number as well.

As for the preamp tubes those are the default, but for diagnosis purpose anything would work:

V1: https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/7025-high ... mber=RT010
Other: https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/shuguang- ... mber=NN001


Hi Leonardo, unfortunatelly i'm very far from Venice. I contacted the company so to ask for a preamp set, apparently they provide complete sets ( power and preamp tubes), i'd only need a pream set in case.
So now i may consider getting 2 12ax7(b) tubes for V5 and V6 or a complete set ( preamp only).

Do you seel them? Which is your shop page ? I cannot find it

Thanx!

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PostPosted: Wed, Mar 04, 2020 3:52am 
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diezel&gas wrote:
Leo Diezel wrote:
If you are close enough to Venice I could take a look inside as well, please send me an email to leonardo@diezelamplification.com so I could give you my number as well.

As for the preamp tubes those are the default, but for diagnosis purpose anything would work:

V1: https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/7025-high ... mber=RT010
Other: https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/shuguang- ... mber=NN001


Hi Leonardo, unfortunatelly i'm very far from Venice. I contacted the company so to ask for a preamp set, apparently they provide complete sets ( power and preamp tubes), i'd only need a pream set in case.
So now i may consider getting 2 12ax7(b) tubes for V5 and V6 or a complete set ( preamp only).

Do you seel them? Which is your shop page ? I cannot find it

Thanx!


Ciao,
Puoi acquistarle regolarmente anche dal sito (tubeampdoctor), semplicemente mettendo la quantità neccessaria (1 per V1 e 5 per le altre) nel carrello per poi procedere all'acquisto!

Possiamo venderle anche noi, puoi mandare una mail a me (leonardo@diezelamplification.com) e Peter (service@diezelamplification.com) con il tuo indirizzo completo e numero di telefono e ti possiamo mandare un offerta.

Grazie!

EDIT
Ho appena realizzato che hai già mandato una mail, probabilmente la risposta di Peter è finita in posta indesiderata!


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PostPosted: Fri, Mar 13, 2020 1:09pm 
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Hi everyone! I've just replaced a whole set of preamp tubes. Everything ok on the 3 channels, let's make the fx loop test...... same crakckling / discontinuous /shutting off sound...
i really don't know....
:doh: :doh: :no: :no: :confused: :confused:

edit: here's 2videos of the sound. Im not touching anyting, kust stumming open strings till the noise/crackling/shutting/decreasing sound would happen. The noise come activating the loop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_luMw1NIvZk
https://youtu.be/h_xFeOpqZzk

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Last edited by diezel&gas on Sat, Mar 14, 2020 1:21pm, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat, Mar 14, 2020 12:09pm 
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Hi, another possible cause i suspect is the amp Switchable Loop jack. In fact if i gently rotate or touch the cable plugged into of that jack, the contact reacts/suffers the moving, depending the movement, the sounds shuts off or keep coming as normal. This with different working cables of course.
Is there a way to have a better contact of this particular head/amp jack? I already tried with electric contact cleaner as suggested.

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PostPosted: Tue, Mar 31, 2020 7:09am 
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Hello, it is most likely a Switchable Loop jack fault. The electric contact cleaner alone didn't solve the issue. Then i confirm turning the jack cable in its place the sound come and go.

It's something more like a mechanical connection problem of the inside of the jack, for example the internal contact too loose that might cause its contact with the tip of the jack uneven, or in the worst case, something starting going wrong on the solderings on the PCM.

The very very strange fact is that even if nothing is attached to any of the Fx send + return, one time i engage the Loop via Midi or by hand, the noise comes. Also with a direct connection as suggested in the previous messages.

So it may be something else from the jack.

What type of jack is the Herbert equipped with? I have to start finding it, just in case it needs to be replaced.

Thanx!

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