Rig-Talk

Guitars, Gear, Tone!
It is currently Sun, Jan 19, 2020 6:48am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 14, 2020 3:32pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Fri, Jan 04, 2008 11:14am
Posts: 664
Location: Italy
Are you human?: 951
Hi, i was playing thru the clean channel 1 of my Herbert and i noticed the amp was making a dirty colouring sound when i strummed barely hard a chord or notes... something like it was on channel 2-, a clipping sound. I tried changing both guitar and cable but the unwanted distortion kept coming.
If i play lightly it stays clean, but if i raise the power of the touch, it comes the distortion.
Power tubes are quite new as i replaced them not long ago.
Preamp tubes are stock from day one.
Might the distortion/break up come from one of the preamp tube?
Thanx

_________________
guitar: ESP CS KH2 NTB; JD Old Boy SG; Amp: Diezel Herbert; Cabinet: Marshall 2x12 JCM2000 TSLC212;
effects: Rocktron Xpression; Controller: Nobels MF-1 Midi FootController; tuner: Boss TU-8


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 14, 2020 8:01pm 
Offline
Immortal Rock God
User avatar

Joined: Mon, May 18, 2009 10:40am
Posts: 16116
Location: I'm BACK in da saddle again.... I'M BAAAACK!!!!
Are you human?: 951
No effects in front or in the loops?? Just direct into amp?? Amp then to single 412 cabinet or...??

Please let us know.

Unkle Mo

_________________
Professional Hobbyist & Tonal Freakazoid
LESTERs | HORIZONs | DIEZEL | BOGNER | BKPs
...everything's better in stereo, everything!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Jan 15, 2020 1:13am 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Fri, Jan 04, 2008 11:14am
Posts: 664
Location: Italy
Are you human?: 951
i was initially playing with the effects On, in the parallel effect Loop - and switchable send connection.
Then i shut off the effect to test the amp alone, and played it straight, no effects, the cab is a 2x12. The unwanted distortion was still there

_________________
guitar: ESP CS KH2 NTB; JD Old Boy SG; Amp: Diezel Herbert; Cabinet: Marshall 2x12 JCM2000 TSLC212;
effects: Rocktron Xpression; Controller: Nobels MF-1 Midi FootController; tuner: Boss TU-8


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Jan 15, 2020 1:34am 
Offline
Immortal Rock God
User avatar

Joined: Mon, May 18, 2009 10:40am
Posts: 16116
Location: I'm BACK in da saddle again.... I'M BAAAACK!!!!
Are you human?: 951
So guitar + cord into amp. No effects in loops. No effects in front. Just a guitar, cable and amp.

Does the distortion oly happen on Ch.1?
Does the rest of the amp sound at all different than before?

Likely V1 preamp tube, but could also be components.

Have you tested for microphonics?? As well, have you tried a couple different guitars??

V1, Phase Inverter, or component. If only on clean channel. If effects at all on, could be tube buffer tube.

Do you have a spare 12AX7 tube?? Might be worth trying - but before you replace - try the amp on low volume, guitar and cab plugged in, rear panel of Herbert off, and just tap the preamp tubes. Bad tubes make a loud noise when tapped with a standard pencil. Always good to check. If you have a spare 12AX7 tube, with amp off, replace V1 (closest preamp tube to the guitar input jack), and try. If sound is better, you may want to replace all the bottles in your amp - do you know how old the tubes are??

Phase Inverter would effect all channels - but it is a very heavily used tube. I always change my PI tube when changing power-tubes.

Let us know.
Unkle Mo

_________________
Professional Hobbyist & Tonal Freakazoid
LESTERs | HORIZONs | DIEZEL | BOGNER | BKPs
...everything's better in stereo, everything!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Jan 15, 2020 11:15am 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Fri, Jan 04, 2008 11:14am
Posts: 664
Location: Italy
Are you human?: 951
thanx for the help, i think i've solved the issue :doh: tomorrow the final test ;) :rock:

_________________
guitar: ESP CS KH2 NTB; JD Old Boy SG; Amp: Diezel Herbert; Cabinet: Marshall 2x12 JCM2000 TSLC212;
effects: Rocktron Xpression; Controller: Nobels MF-1 Midi FootController; tuner: Boss TU-8


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed, Jan 15, 2020 6:52pm 
Offline
Immortal Rock God
User avatar

Joined: Mon, May 18, 2009 10:40am
Posts: 16116
Location: I'm BACK in da saddle again.... I'M BAAAACK!!!!
Are you human?: 951
diezel&gas wrote:
thanx for the help, i think i've solved the issue :doh: tomorrow the final test ;) :rock:

Glad to be of service, and please do let us know what the solution was...even if it was user error - it's helpful to everyone experiencing similar issues and using the "Search" function.

We're a community here.

Glad your Diezel is back up and kicking sonic ass!! :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:

Unkle Mo

_________________
Professional Hobbyist & Tonal Freakazoid
LESTERs | HORIZONs | DIEZEL | BOGNER | BKPs
...everything's better in stereo, everything!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu, Jan 16, 2020 12:46pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Fri, Jan 04, 2008 11:14am
Posts: 664
Location: Italy
Are you human?: 951
Sure! I still have to check again, but the result of that noise was probably simply a dead battery of the active pick ups in my guitar. Sometimes they fools me... So nothing to do with the amp.
Asaic i'll get another one to try with the same guitar.

To check properly the cause of the noise, yesterday i plugged another guitar with passive pick ups and that noise didn't show, so it must be that ( dead battery on the active pick up equipped guitar), plain and simple.

The other day, when i opened the topic i was sure the noise was present on the guitar with passive pick ups as well, just because i was playing clean, but at a little high volume and something in my room was shaking/vibrating (a shelf) that's why i was hearing bad sounds, those noises distracted me :lol: :LOL:

_________________
guitar: ESP CS KH2 NTB; JD Old Boy SG; Amp: Diezel Herbert; Cabinet: Marshall 2x12 JCM2000 TSLC212;
effects: Rocktron Xpression; Controller: Nobels MF-1 Midi FootController; tuner: Boss TU-8


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu, Jan 16, 2020 12:56pm 
Offline
Immortal Rock God
User avatar

Joined: Mon, May 18, 2009 10:40am
Posts: 16116
Location: I'm BACK in da saddle again.... I'M BAAAACK!!!!
Are you human?: 951
:lol: :LOL: Well that was an EASY solution!!

Glad you figured it out, and yes, a low powered pup can definitely be problematic. Always good to have a couple guitars to check out the issue.

Keep us posted if anything changes and rock on! :rock:

_________________
Professional Hobbyist & Tonal Freakazoid
LESTERs | HORIZONs | DIEZEL | BOGNER | BKPs
...everything's better in stereo, everything!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu, Jan 16, 2020 1:56pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Fri, Jan 04, 2008 11:14am
Posts: 664
Location: Italy
Are you human?: 951
Hi again, i just turned off the amp....i made another quick test.. because i had a thought in my mind... This last one was made with the guitar w/passive pickups.
So, the cracking noise comes only with the effect processor ( rocktron xpression) engaged. If for instance i'm on ch1 with no effects (so the loop is off), the amp sounds fine, also on any other channel; if i engage the Xpression by the loop effects via midi pedalboard, let's say on Ch1, the noise comes randomly depending how much hard i strum a note or a chord, and it comes and go whenever it wants.
I tried swapping the connection cables between the effect processors and amp send + return but nothing have changed.
I tried to gently touch the cables while playing to see if the noise would happen or modify its presence but with no reaction.

What the problem could be now?

a) Effect processor connection cables damaged; b ) Effect processor unit alone ; c) Preamp tube, maybe V5?

Talking about the guitar with active pickups, that might be a different issue, still to be verified because with it, the bad sound came with the effect processor totally off.


:( :no: :aww:

_________________
guitar: ESP CS KH2 NTB; JD Old Boy SG; Amp: Diezel Herbert; Cabinet: Marshall 2x12 JCM2000 TSLC212;
effects: Rocktron Xpression; Controller: Nobels MF-1 Midi FootController; tuner: Boss TU-8


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu, Jan 16, 2020 7:21pm 
Offline
Immortal Rock God
User avatar

Joined: Mon, May 18, 2009 10:40am
Posts: 16116
Location: I'm BACK in da saddle again.... I'M BAAAACK!!!!
Are you human?: 951
Hmmmmm.

V5 & V6 are responsible for send and return for the loop.
V1 is obviously not JUST for clean, but ALL channels go through V1.

However, if this is ONLY happening with the effects engaged, I would suggest two things:
- do you have any other FX, doesn't matter, reverb, delay, etc. that you could try IN the loop other than the Rocktron? If so, try that.
- plugged DIRECTLY into the amp, and with just a cable between the LOOP send-return in question, is there still a crackling??

Anyway - do you have some extra 12AX7 tubes kicking around??
I'd try replacing V5 & V6 if this is an effects/loop issue only after making sure (via direct cable or a different unit) that it's not the Rocktron itself.

And you can't hear this problem on Ch.2, 3 or 4 with the Rocktron engaged??

_________________
Professional Hobbyist & Tonal Freakazoid
LESTERs | HORIZONs | DIEZEL | BOGNER | BKPs
...everything's better in stereo, everything!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 17, 2020 2:41pm 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Fri, Jan 04, 2008 11:14am
Posts: 664
Location: Italy
Are you human?: 951
Hi there, i have 2 news, a good one and a bad one. The good is i solved the guitar problem, yes, it was a dead battery causing the unwanted distortion, it was dead indeed as it was kinda exploded...one of its pole was broken too...

The bad one is that the amp fx section (or the external Fx unit) issue, still make the crackling and shutting noise. It seems it has also got worse, when the problem appears, it stays longer.... maybe its a preamp tube near its end of life.
I tried changing cables with others functioning but with no good result.
I tried the amp thru each channel and the problem with the effect On appears in any of them. So it's an issue only with the Loop On. The amp sounds fine withouit the Xpression engaged by the Loop.

Yes I do have a big muff pedal to try if it's righ for the purpose..
Unfortunatelly i don't have any preamp tube to swap as a test.

_________________
guitar: ESP CS KH2 NTB; JD Old Boy SG; Amp: Diezel Herbert; Cabinet: Marshall 2x12 JCM2000 TSLC212;
effects: Rocktron Xpression; Controller: Nobels MF-1 Midi FootController; tuner: Boss TU-8


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 17, 2020 8:45pm 
Offline
Wannabe a Supah Stah
User avatar

Joined: Wed, Dec 20, 2006 5:28am
Posts: 2441
Location: Cleveland Ohio
Are you human?: 951
Wondering if spraying the cable end with Deoxit contact cleaner and working it in and out of the loop jacks might quiet things down.
I know when input jacks don't get used they tend to become noisy.

If you are able to do that just remember to spray it on the cable end then insert it several times to the input loop jacks...DONT SPRAY INTO THE input jack holes.

I even spray the pins on tubes and insert then just to clean them a bit.

Give the spray a few minutes to work before turning on the amp.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri, Jan 17, 2020 9:07pm 
Offline
Immortal Rock God
User avatar

Joined: Mon, May 18, 2009 10:40am
Posts: 16116
Location: I'm BACK in da saddle again.... I'M BAAAACK!!!!
Are you human?: 951
diezel&gas wrote:
Hi there, i have 2 news, a good one and a bad one. The good is i solved the guitar problem, yes, it was a dead battery causing the unwanted distortion, it was dead indeed as it was kinda exploded...one of its pole was broken too...

The bad one is that the amp fx section (or the external Fx unit) issue, still make the crackling and shutting noise. It seems it has also got worse, when the problem appears, it stays longer.... maybe its a preamp tube near its end of life.
I tried changing cables with others functioning but with no good result.
I tried the amp thru each channel and the problem with the effect On appears in any of them. So it's an issue only with the Loop On. The amp sounds fine withouit the Xpression engaged by the Loop.

Yes I do have a big muff pedal to try if it's righ for the purpose..
Unfortunatelly i don't have any preamp tube to swap as a test.

Have you tried just using a jumper cable from send to return and engaging the loop to see if the noise is still there?? If it's not there with a jumped cable, then the FX unit has shit the bed. If the noise IS there, it's V5 + V6 tubes, likely. Or as the above post mentions, perhaps a lil DeOXIT would help...

Jumper the circuit and see if the noise is still there - that's the easiest.
Peace
Unkle Mo :rock:

_________________
Professional Hobbyist & Tonal Freakazoid
LESTERs | HORIZONs | DIEZEL | BOGNER | BKPs
...everything's better in stereo, everything!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 19, 2020 2:19am 
Offline
Plank Cranker Trainee
User avatar

Joined: Fri, Jan 04, 2008 11:14am
Posts: 664
Location: Italy
Are you human?: 951
Hello, i didn't try a deoxid spray, I'll do next.
About the cable, you mean to plug a cable with nothing in between from send to return, the same used at the moment by the FX unit?
I ask because I don't want to make a short circuit kind of connection :)

I tried to plug a big muff pedal, there was no noise but neither the distortion sound from the pedal ( maybe because it's not designed to work in parallel), it acted only like a volume pedal ( if I turned the pedal volume off, the volume went to zero, if at max the sound would pass thru).

_________________
guitar: ESP CS KH2 NTB; JD Old Boy SG; Amp: Diezel Herbert; Cabinet: Marshall 2x12 JCM2000 TSLC212;
effects: Rocktron Xpression; Controller: Nobels MF-1 Midi FootController; tuner: Boss TU-8


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group - Terms of Use