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 Post subject: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Sun, Dec 24, 2017 8:27pm 
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Hey guys,

First off, i've done a lot of searching on the forum to look into getting an attenuator for my VH4. My issue is that I practice in an apartment and I find the master volume to be a bit touchy and rather tedious to work with. I find myself having to change my master volume in very, very fine hair-like increments.

What i've read from searching was that attenuators aren't recommended, or they aren't recommended past a certain master volume. I might consider just getting a 1x12 cabinet, but I can't seem to find 100W Celestion V30 speakers anywhere. However, I heard that getting a 1x12 would just effect my tone, not really the volume.

In that regard, I was looking for some input from more experienced Diezel owners who could possibly help me find a solution.

Edit: I've come across volume pedals. Perhaps this would be a better solution?


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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Sun, Dec 24, 2017 10:48pm 
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A volume pedal could work, but if you place it before the amp's input it won't do what you want.. it would just reduce the gain (the same as your guitar's volume knob).

If your primary issue is trying to set an exact level, but find the master volume too touchy -> Try this simple work-around before spending a bunch of money:

1) Take pretty much any pedal that has an output level on it, but that also has the ability to turn whatever effect it is off completely. (An EQ Pedal would work great, a compressor pedal set so it doesn't compress, or a chorus pedal set completely dry.... a volume pedal could also work, but any effects unit where the device can be switched "on" but not actually impart an effect would work also.)

2) Place your volume pedal (or whatever device you pick) in your amp's serial effects loop (so it is always present in the signal path).

3) Turn the output level of that device down so it reduces the overall level when engaged. (If it adds an effect, set it completely dry).

4) Your amp's master volume will now be less touchy and moving it larger amounts will make for smaller changes in level.


It's not something I've had to do at all recently, but I have done it several times over the years as a simple fix / in similar circumstances.

...did a quick YouTube search: Phillip McKnight's channel had a video from a couple years back where he demonstrates this solution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te-Z6oC8HiM




Hope that helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Sun, Dec 24, 2017 11:16pm 
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strings_ibanez wrote:
A volume pedal could work, but if you place it before the amp's input it won't do what you want.. it would just reduce the gain (the same as your guitar's volume knob).

If your primary issue is trying to set an exact level, but find the master volume too touchy -> Try this simple work-around before spending a bunch of money:

1) Take pretty much any pedal that has an output level on it, but that also has the ability to turn whatever effect it is off completely. (An EQ Pedal would work great, a compressor pedal set so it doesn't compress, or a chorus pedal set completely dry.... a volume pedal could also work, but any effects unit where the device can be switched "on" but not actually impart an effect would work also.)

2) Place your volume pedal (or whatever device you pick) in your amp's serial effects loop (so it is always present in the signal path).

3) Turn the output level of that device down so it reduces the overall level when engaged. (If it adds an effect, set it completely dry).

4) Your amp's master volume will now be less touchy and moving it larger amounts will make for smaller changes in level.


It's not something I've had to do at all recently, but I have done it several times over the years as a simple fix / in similar circumstances.

...did a quick YouTube search: Phillip McKnight's channel had a video from a couple years back where he demonstrates this solution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te-Z6oC8HiM




Hope that helps.


Awesome, thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 25, 2017 4:17am 
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Why not decrease the channel volumes ?


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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 25, 2017 8:35am 
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Peter Diezel wrote:
Why not decrease the channel volumes ?



Hey Mr. Diezel, thank you for your response. I was under the impression that the channel volumes were essentially the "gain knobs" and in that regard, I didn't want to sacrifice my tone.


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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 25, 2017 8:47am 
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The diezel line sounds KILLER at any volume.

After owning five of them AND using all of them in a bedroom at times I will say if they are too much for your situation find a 50 watt einstein or go paul/big max. If that is too much Inwould reccommmed the synergy Diezel preamp with a smaller power amp. Mesa 20/20 comes to mind...

Attenuation with Diezels seems like a mistake to me. You will suffer more tone loss than using the amps as desinged.the single caveat is lower colume tones need completely different settings, redial the entire amp.

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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 25, 2017 9:01am 
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moltenmetalburn wrote:
The diezel line sounds KILLER at any volume.

After owning five of them AND using all of them in a bedroom at times I will say if they are too much for your situation find a 50 watt einstein or go paul/big max. If that is too much Inwould reccommmed the synergy Diezel preamp with a smaller power amp. Mesa 20/20 comes to mind...

Attenuation with Diezels seems like a mistake to me. You will suffer more tone loss than using the amps as desinged.the single caveat is lower colume tones need completely different settings, redial the entire amp.



Thank you for the response. The master volumes do sound really good, even at low volumes. My issue is that I find it very tedious to have to move my master volume in very, very increments just to dial in the bedroom volume. I'm not sure what would be my best solution honestly. I've just read around that attenuators are good for taming monster amp heads for bedroom volumes. Maybe I should look into something other than an attenuator?


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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 25, 2017 9:05am 
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O731 wrote:
moltenmetalburn wrote:
The diezel line sounds KILLER at any volume.

After owning five of them AND using all of them in a bedroom at times I will say if they are too much for your situation find a 50 watt einstein or go paul/big max. If that is too much Inwould reccommmed the synergy Diezel preamp with a smaller power amp. Mesa 20/20 comes to mind...

Attenuation with Diezels seems like a mistake to me. You will suffer more tone loss than using the amps as desinged.the single caveat is lower colume tones need completely different settings, redial the entire amp.



Thank you for the response. The master volumes do sound really good, even at low volumes. My issue is that I find it very tedious to have to move my master volume in very, very increments just to dial in the bedroom volume. I'm not sure what would be my best solution honestly. I've just read around that attenuators are good for taming monster amp heads for bedroom volumes. Maybe I should look into something other than an attenuator?


You could try a passive volume box/ volume pedal in the series loop though I am not sure that will be any better than the on oard master colume. No experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 25, 2017 9:16am 
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moltenmetalburn wrote:
O731 wrote:
moltenmetalburn wrote:
The diezel line sounds KILLER at any volume.

After owning five of them AND using all of them in a bedroom at times I will say if they are too much for your situation find a 50 watt einstein or go paul/big max. If that is too much Inwould reccommmed the synergy Diezel preamp with a smaller power amp. Mesa 20/20 comes to mind...

Attenuation with Diezels seems like a mistake to me. You will suffer more tone loss than using the amps as desinged.the single caveat is lower colume tones need completely different settings, redial the entire amp.



Thank you for the response. The master volumes do sound really good, even at low volumes. My issue is that I find it very tedious to have to move my master volume in very, very increments just to dial in the bedroom volume. I'm not sure what would be my best solution honestly. I've just read around that attenuators are good for taming monster amp heads for bedroom volumes. Maybe I should look into something other than an attenuator?


You could try a passive volume box/ volume pedal in the series loop though I am not sure that will be any better than the on oard master colume. No experience.


Thanks man! It appears that a volume pedal would be the most appropriate solution.


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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 25, 2017 9:20am 
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By the way: Is there any difference between something like this https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... PIQAvD_BwE

or a more expensive volume pedal, in terms of preserving my tone? Or is that not an issue since it's its going to attenuate my volume and not my power.

Finally, do you have any idea what the best volume attenuator pedal is?


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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 26, 2017 4:25am 
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I've never come across that particular box myself, but unless there is some additional circuitry inside... beyond the basic level control (like something intended to mimic the sound of a louder setting as you turn it down.. and I don't see anything in the description that would lead me to believe that is the case, so it's probably just the level control) it should in theory perform the exact same function with no intrinsic difference in the resulting tone.

The main distinctions between something like that box and a traditional volume pedal would just be in cost and form-factor (which do inherently correspond: bigger device with more moving parts and design complexity = more $$).
The biggest variance between traditional volume pedals is in the feel of the each one's movement under your foot and the sweep of their volume pots. (Some seem to pack a lot of change toward one end of the sweep while other can seem more even throughout).


A traditional volume pedal does offer the additional benefit of its intended use, but all of that said: that little box is purpose built for your particular use, has a small footprint that is probably easier to position near your amp, might be easier to consistently adjust or recall your level setting, and is also around half the cost of even the less expensive options for decent traditional volume pedals.


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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 26, 2017 8:40am 
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Put a 25 or 50kOhm log pot into the serial loop. That makes it easy to dial in lower volumes.
You can solder that yourself for 10 dollars or buy the Scott Henderson subtlevolumecontrol aka svc.
http://ews-us.com/item_volumeCtrl.php?item=custom
I do not understand why this thing is 60 bucks. It's essentially a pot in box with two jacks. Not exactly rocket science, but it does the job.

The Diezel knobs are small so it's not easy to make incremental changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 26, 2017 10:05am 
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[url][/url]
Vin Diezel wrote:
Put a 25 or 50kOhm log pot into the serial loop. That makes it easy to dial in lower volumes.
You can solder that yourself for 10 dollars or buy the Scott Henderson subtlevolumecontrol aka svc.
http://ews-us.com/item_volumeCtrl.php?item=custom
I do not understand why this thing is 60 bucks. It's essentially a pot in box with two jacks. Not exactly rocket science, but it does the job.

The Diezel knobs are small so it's not easy to make incremental changes.



Thank you very much, this is exactly what I was looking for!

By the way, would my tone suffer in any way from this?


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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 26, 2017 10:57am 
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The short answer is NO. I cannot hear it through studio monitors.

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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 26, 2017 11:07am 
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Vin Diezel wrote:
The short answer is NO. I cannot hear it through studio monitors.



Awesome, you've been much help! :rock:


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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 01, 2018 12:07am 
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Follow up question:

I’m going to get a passive line attenuator, but I was actually looking to get an active attenuator for recording. I was looking at the two notes torpedo reload, and it seems like just the right product to get.

I consulted with Peter Diezel and he recommended the tube amp doctor silencer attenuator. In that regard, I was looking to see which of these two power attenuators would be best for what I’m looking for. Any advice will be highly appreciated !


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 Post subject: Re: Attenuator for VH4
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 01, 2018 6:00pm 
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O731 wrote:
Follow up question:

I’m going to get a passive line attenuator, but I was actually looking to get an active attenuator for recording. I was looking at the two notes torpedo reload, and it seems like just the right product to get.

I consulted with Peter Diezel and he recommended the tube amp doctor silencer attenuator. In that regard, I was looking to see which of these two power attenuators would be best for what I’m looking for. Any advice will be highly appreciated !


I've got the TN Reload and really, really like it. Works great with the VH4.

:thumbsup:

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