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PostPosted: Thu, May 30, 2019 1:24pm 
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Beware of dealing with John4021. He totally screwed me out of multiple $2500+ sales!

1. After I posted an amp in the classifieds, John4021 contacted me with a trade offer. We conversed quite a lot and exchanged pics before coming to an intermediate agreement, so there was no confusion about the gear or expectations. Keep in mind my amp costs $600 more than his but since it was an amp I was interested in trying, I did not ask for anything additional, just gave him an awesome deal.

2. Then, before solidifying the agreement, I explained that I had a few serious buyers within hours of listing on Reverb, so I wanted to know FOR SURE that he would keep his side of the trade... I even sent him a screenshot of the amp getting offers on Reverb. Twice I asked to clarify this, but he even followed up asking me if we had a solid deal for sure.

3. After confirming the deal was solid, I pulled my Reverb auction and informed the buyers I had made another deal. We established that we'd pack and ship the following day.

4. We continued to converse and then in one of our conversations, he said something very odd about installing new tubes. This caught my attention a bit because he had described his amp as being totally mint and not used much, so I asked why he would need to replace the tubes. Then he responded strangely saying the he "just meant in general." I did not question him about it any further and trusted everything was OK as he said.

5. At the last minute, he sends me another odd message saying that he was playing the amp for a few hours and had to adjust the bias so the bias wouldn't "drift." Of course I asked about that because I was wondering why such a high-end amp would cause concern about bias drift. He kind of played it off as if he knew exactly what he was doing and it was just sort of a routine precaution, so even though I began to suspect he was getting cold feet, I assumed he was acting honorably and just trying to be fully transparent.

(note: I replied jokingly saying "bad move playing your amp after making a trade," suggesting it would lead to trader's remorse, but saying it really to get a feel of whether he was looking to back out of the deal).

6. He said he would be shipping Tuesday (day before yesterday) and wanted to confirm I'd do the same. I said no problem, he could count on me 100%. Then he sent me another odd message asking me to confirm it would ship in the original box (even though I did not mention that in the thread). AGAIN, it seemed like was trying to find a different excuse. I told him that I'm very good about keeping things nice so I probably did but would have to go to the storage place and check. Then he said "You need to find the box." However, I wasn't too worried about that since I never mentioned the original box in my description, it was never brought up before, and I had the box anyway.

7. After confirming all was still OK with our trade, I put it out of mind. Next thing you know, when I was expecting he would be down at the shipping location as I was preparing to do, he texts me saying "two of the tubes popped" and that he was not going to ship. This seemed like an ominous sign and I started to suspect that our deal just went south. I pretty much asked him at that point if he was trying to find an excuse to back out of the deal. At that point, I would have let it go and just moved on.

8. A short time later, he sent me a brief message saying "New tubes did the trick." I was apprehensive, but he claimed he was a former U.S. Marine, and has been a forum member for years, I went ahead and gave him the benefit of the doubt even though I thought he was trying to weasel out. Then he sent me a message saying he "just doesn't want simple things like tubes" make the "whole tone" go "to garbage."

(note: at this point, my buyers were dropping like flies. One even messaged me on TGP asking what happened to me and that he wanted to buy, but because I was still trying to assess John's issue, he purchased from someone else pretty soon after.)

9. Finally, it was Monday night and all seemed like it was finally resolved. I sent him a message trying to settle his mind, telling him not to worry about the deal because my amp costs $600 more than his and he was getting a way better deal on his end, and that no matter what, he'd come out ahead in the long run.

10. Tuesday morning, no response. John went silent and disappeared. No amp shipped, no tracking number, no sign of John. The deadbeat left me without a single buyer.

John4021 totally fucked me on this deal. Even though the actual exchange never took place, he put the deal in motion after multiple confirmations. I practically had the amp sold within hours of listing on Reverb and a couple of serious offers on TGP. Now my amp has been sitting at auction since Tuesday without any offers because they've all moved on. If John had just told me he wanted to back out when I asked him, it would have worked out, but he kept me hanging on until all my opportunities were depleted and then dropped cold without a single word.


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PostPosted: Fri, May 31, 2019 7:06pm 
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Supah Stah
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MistaGuitah wrote:
Beware of dealing with John4021. He totally screwed me out of multiple $2500+ sales!

1. After I posted an amp in the classifieds, John4021 contacted me with a trade offer. We conversed quite a lot and exchanged pics before coming to an intermediate agreement, so there was no confusion about the gear or expectations. Keep in mind my amp costs $600 more than his but since it was an amp I was interested in trying, I did not ask for anything additional, just gave him an awesome deal.

2. Then, before solidifying the agreement, I explained that I had a few serious buyers within hours of listing on Reverb, so I wanted to know FOR SURE that he would keep his side of the trade... I even sent him a screenshot of the amp getting offers on Reverb. Twice I asked to clarify this, but he even followed up asking me if we had a solid deal for sure.

3. After confirming the deal was solid, I pulled my Reverb auction and informed the buyers I had made another deal. We established that we'd pack and ship the following day.

4. We continued to converse and then in one of our conversations, he said something very odd about installing new tubes. This caught my attention a bit because he had described his amp as being totally mint and not used much, so I asked why he would need to replace the tubes. Then he responded strangely saying the he "just meant in general." I did not question him about it any further and trusted everything was OK as he said.

5. At the last minute, he sends me another odd message saying that he was playing the amp for a few hours and had to adjust the bias so the bias wouldn't "drift." Of course I asked about that because I was wondering why such a high-end amp would cause concern about bias drift. He kind of played it off as if he knew exactly what he was doing and it was just sort of a routine precaution, so even though I began to suspect he was getting cold feet, I assumed he was acting honorably and just trying to be fully transparent.

(note: I replied jokingly saying "bad move playing your amp after making a trade," suggesting it would lead to trader's remorse, but saying it really to get a feel of whether he was looking to back out of the deal).

6. He said he would be shipping Tuesday (day before yesterday) and wanted to confirm I'd do the same. I said no problem, he could count on me 100%. Then he sent me another odd message asking me to confirm it would ship in the original box (even though I did not mention that in the thread). AGAIN, it seemed like was trying to find a different excuse. I told him that I'm very good about keeping things nice so I probably did but would have to go to the storage place and check. Then he said "You need to find the box." However, I wasn't too worried about that since I never mentioned the original box in my description, it was never brought up before, and I had the box anyway.

7. After confirming all was still OK with our trade, I put it out of mind. Next thing you know, when I was expecting he would be down at the shipping location as I was preparing to do, he texts me saying "two of the tubes popped" and that he was not going to ship. This seemed like an ominous sign and I started to suspect that our deal just went south. I pretty much asked him at that point if he was trying to find an excuse to back out of the deal. At that point, I would have let it go and just moved on.

8. A short time later, he sent me a brief message saying "New tubes did the trick." I was apprehensive, but he claimed he was a former U.S. Marine, and has been a forum member for years, I went ahead and gave him the benefit of the doubt even though I thought he was trying to weasel out. Then he sent me a message saying he "just doesn't want simple things like tubes" make the "whole tone" go "to garbage."

(note: at this point, my buyers were dropping like flies. One even messaged me on TGP asking what happened to me and that he wanted to buy, but because I was still trying to assess John's issue, he purchased from someone else pretty soon after.)

9. Finally, it was Monday night and all seemed like it was finally resolved. I sent him a message trying to settle his mind, telling him not to worry about the deal because my amp costs $600 more than his and he was getting a way better deal on his end, and that no matter what, he'd come out ahead in the long run.

10. Tuesday morning, no response. John went silent and disappeared. No amp shipped, no tracking number, no sign of John. The deadbeat left me without a single buyer.

John4021 totally fucked me on this deal. Even though the actual exchange never took place, he put the deal in motion after multiple confirmations. I practically had the amp sold within hours of listing on Reverb and a couple of serious offers on TGP. Now my amp has been sitting at auction since Tuesday without any offers because they've all moved on. If John had just told me he wanted to back out when I asked him, it would have worked out, but he kept me hanging on until all my opportunities were depleted and then dropped cold without a single word.


This is why I put buyers first. If I discuss a trade, fine. But, peoples' word these days is shit, and money talks. I would have never pulled the ad, until I was 100%. Most people understand if you back out of a trade because somebody bought it. That's just the way it is. Even if somebody tells me they want to buy something, I leave my ads up until I see funds.


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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 01, 2019 12:08pm 
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napalmdeath wrote:
MistaGuitah wrote:
Beware of dealing with John4021. He totally screwed me out of multiple $2500+ sales!

1. After I posted an amp in the classifieds, John4021 contacted me with a trade offer. We conversed quite a lot and exchanged pics before coming to an intermediate agreement, so there was no confusion about the gear or expectations. Keep in mind my amp costs $600 more than his but since it was an amp I was interested in trying, I did not ask for anything additional, just gave him an awesome deal.

2. Then, before solidifying the agreement, I explained that I had a few serious buyers within hours of listing on Reverb, so I wanted to know FOR SURE that he would keep his side of the trade... I even sent him a screenshot of the amp getting offers on Reverb. Twice I asked to clarify this, but he even followed up asking me if we had a solid deal for sure.

3. After confirming the deal was solid, I pulled my Reverb auction and informed the buyers I had made another deal. We established that we'd pack and ship the following day.

4. We continued to converse and then in one of our conversations, he said something very odd about installing new tubes. This caught my attention a bit because he had described his amp as being totally mint and not used much, so I asked why he would need to replace the tubes. Then he responded strangely saying the he "just meant in general." I did not question him about it any further and trusted everything was OK as he said.

5. At the last minute, he sends me another odd message saying that he was playing the amp for a few hours and had to adjust the bias so the bias wouldn't "drift." Of course I asked about that because I was wondering why such a high-end amp would cause concern about bias drift. He kind of played it off as if he knew exactly what he was doing and it was just sort of a routine precaution, so even though I began to suspect he was getting cold feet, I assumed he was acting honorably and just trying to be fully transparent.

(note: I replied jokingly saying "bad move playing your amp after making a trade," suggesting it would lead to trader's remorse, but saying it really to get a feel of whether he was looking to back out of the deal).

6. He said he would be shipping Tuesday (day before yesterday) and wanted to confirm I'd do the same. I said no problem, he could count on me 100%. Then he sent me another odd message asking me to confirm it would ship in the original box (even though I did not mention that in the thread). AGAIN, it seemed like was trying to find a different excuse. I told him that I'm very good about keeping things nice so I probably did but would have to go to the storage place and check. Then he said "You need to find the box." However, I wasn't too worried about that since I never mentioned the original box in my description, it was never brought up before, and I had the box anyway.

7. After confirming all was still OK with our trade, I put it out of mind. Next thing you know, when I was expecting he would be down at the shipping location as I was preparing to do, he texts me saying "two of the tubes popped" and that he was not going to ship. This seemed like an ominous sign and I started to suspect that our deal just went south. I pretty much asked him at that point if he was trying to find an excuse to back out of the deal. At that point, I would have let it go and just moved on.

8. A short time later, he sent me a brief message saying "New tubes did the trick." I was apprehensive, but he claimed he was a former U.S. Marine, and has been a forum member for years, I went ahead and gave him the benefit of the doubt even though I thought he was trying to weasel out. Then he sent me a message saying he "just doesn't want simple things like tubes" make the "whole tone" go "to garbage."

(note: at this point, my buyers were dropping like flies. One even messaged me on TGP asking what happened to me and that he wanted to buy, but because I was still trying to assess John's issue, he purchased from someone else pretty soon after.)

9. Finally, it was Monday night and all seemed like it was finally resolved. I sent him a message trying to settle his mind, telling him not to worry about the deal because my amp costs $600 more than his and he was getting a way better deal on his end, and that no matter what, he'd come out ahead in the long run.

10. Tuesday morning, no response. John went silent and disappeared. No amp shipped, no tracking number, no sign of John. The deadbeat left me without a single buyer.

John4021 totally fucked me on this deal. Even though the actual exchange never took place, he put the deal in motion after multiple confirmations. I practically had the amp sold within hours of listing on Reverb and a couple of serious offers on TGP. Now my amp has been sitting at auction since Tuesday without any offers because they've all moved on. If John had just told me he wanted to back out when I asked him, it would have worked out, but he kept me hanging on until all my opportunities were depleted and then dropped cold without a single word.


This is why I put buyers first. If I discuss a trade, fine. But, peoples' word these days is shit, and money talks. I would have never pulled the ad, until I was 100%. Most people understand if you back out of a trade because somebody bought it. That's just the way it is. Even if somebody tells me they want to buy something, I leave my ads up until I see funds.


That's the thing. We discussed it a lot, and I confirmed with him 3 times that we had a solid deal. If he had demonstrated any uncertainty or hesitation at the time, I would probably have sold the amp. The only reason i preferred tontrade was because I was going to just turn around and buy a Bogner anyway. Well, totally sucks but I agree with you, so from now on I'm going to take the money and run when a seller comes along. It's unfortunate the gear trade has diminished so much.


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PostPosted: Thu, Jun 06, 2019 1:50pm 
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Hack

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Ban him!! Wishy washy traders are the worst...


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PostPosted: Sat, Jun 08, 2019 10:06pm 
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rockhardridefree wrote:
Ban him!! Wishy washy traders are the worst...


Wishy washy traders aren't such a problem if they don't confirm a deal multiple times over 3 days and then disappear on the day you're supposed to ship.


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PostPosted: Sun, Jun 09, 2019 11:11am 
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Supah Stah
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That could have been worse if you actually shipped!
I never itrade & likely never will

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