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Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Thu, Apr 18, 2019 2:36pm

fatbagg wrote:The Helios Eclipse is insanely good! Here is me playing that exact amp before it was shipped out, one dream theater piece and one freestyle play on Eclipse+ mode.



https://youtu.be/Lgk_BIilenc

https://youtu.be/K9P_OyMhxyU

Thaanks for posting these. Sounds awsome, bad pre amp tubes my ass! Thanks for the heads up. Cant wait to jump in the classifieds on these findings. Sorry for your experience, glad it did resolve after your 30 day loan was paid back.. great chops!

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Thu, Apr 18, 2019 5:05pm

We are probably getting off track but I have an Eclipse now too that just showed up ! I almost bought the one Abbath was selling, good thing I didnt ! ! Anyways yeah its a great sounding amp , has a forward midrange and a smooth high end . Can get plenty tight for rhythm and has a great lead tone. One of those do it all, cover alot of ground type amps.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Thu, Apr 18, 2019 6:10pm

hatrick00 wrote:Anyone who files a paypal claim over tube issues deserves to be banned from rig talk. When you buy a used amp you better be ready to roll all tubes. If you don’t understand this you have a lot of learning to do. Bye Felicia.


Agreed. Have spare tubes, and suck it up. It happens.

Now, knowingly selling something with bad tubes, that's another story.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Thu, Apr 18, 2019 6:13pm

the4thlast1 wrote:We are probably getting off track but I have an Eclipse now too that just showed up ! I almost bought the one Abbath was selling, good thing I didnt ! ! Anyways yeah its a great sounding amp , has a forward midrange and a smooth high end . Can get plenty tight for rhythm and has a great lead tone. One of those do it all, cover alot of ground type amps.


I had the original Helios, and loved it.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Thu, Apr 18, 2019 6:33pm

the4thlast1 wrote:We are probably getting off track but I have an Eclipse now too that just showed up ! I almost bought the one Abbath was selling, good thing I didnt ! ! Anyways yeah its a great sounding amp , has a forward midrange and a smooth high end . Can get plenty tight for rhythm and has a great lead tone. One of those do it all, cover alot of ground type amps.


I’m kind of finding myself wishing I didn’t sell it. It was great. I replaced it with a JP2C and not content with it. At least I have my Herbert.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Thu, Apr 18, 2019 7:47pm

Well, I guess I should weigh in here since I’m the guy who bought it.
I did see all your videos on it, including the ones posted above (I watched every Eclipse video on YouTube multiple times actually) and started a thread on it vs the Helios and Ecstasy. I dwelled on getting one for months and bought a Splawn Quick Rod, Fryette Sig X and a few other things instead. But knew I’d end up getting one until I eventually caved and bought one.

I don’t know or care to get into what happened here. I buy, sell and trade a lot and I’ve traded with Abbath before and it was smooth, even though we had to work through a Canadian postal strike. So I felt pretty safe in buying and still feel good about the purchase. It’s on the way and I can’t wait to get it. At the price point, I’d get anything repaired, but I don’t expect it to have any issues.

I’m sorry things went down like this. Maybe things could have worked out better if you guys would have picked up the phone and spoken to one another. Not judging, but usually that would make a big difference in working things out, especially in a tight-nit amp community. But what’s done is done I guess.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Thu, Apr 18, 2019 8:34pm

maddnotez wrote:
abbath78 wrote:
fatbagg wrote:
Beandust wrote:All the gear people have on this forum and pre amp tubes cause a fucking dispute? That is Fucking pathetic period. If 2 people cant be happy selling a tube amp over pre amp tubes and work out an agreement without paypal even being involved is so pathetic it sucks to even be reading this shit. Pathetic. Maybe it was 2000 dollar nos stock RCA 12ax7 pres... my fault


If it was just Preamp tubes, no problem. But I’m not coming out of pocket $200 and refunding for something that you are selling as mint behind my back.



Yes, the preamp tubes in a amp listed as mint should work. Which is why I replaced the garbage you had in there before I sold the amp. Regardless, I won't be disputing this any further as it's a closed case with Paypal. The fact that you felt the need to make a post in the classified section of a gear site only reinforces your immaturity. Peace


This isn't guitar center bud. Should always be prepared to get a bad tube on a used amp. Even brand new amps have defective tubes out of the box or damaged from shipping. If you want a warranty go to GC or buy new.

Yeah technically you can file a dispute for this and I can understand simply not knowing what the issue was and filing a claim but reading between the lines with all the other comments and other ads and forums, etc...yikes. As a forum member with previous deals you should already know tubes are made of glass.

This!
I never, ever ever expect tubes from ANY amp I buy, here or elsewhere, to be worth a shit....I always plan on tube rolling because of the high failure rate of newer tubes AND the risk of shipping damage, even if packed well. This is akin to buying a car, you always change the oil because then you KNOW it's all good. This is just a part of normal maintenance to any tube amp, IMO.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Thu, Apr 18, 2019 8:55pm

stratjacket wrote:Well, I guess I should weigh in here since I’m the guy who bought it.
I did see all your videos on it, including the ones posted above (I watched every Eclipse video on YouTube multiple times actually) and started a thread on it vs the Helios and Ecstasy. I dwelled on getting one for months and bought a Splawn Quick Rod, Fryette Sig X and a few other things instead. But knew I’d end up getting one until I eventually caved and bought one.

I don’t know or care to get into what happened here. I buy, sell and trade a lot and I’ve traded with Abbath before and it was smooth, even though we had to work through a Canadian postal strike. So I felt pretty safe in buying and still feel good about the purchase. It’s on the way and I can’t wait to get it. At the price point, I’d get anything repaired, but I don’t expect it to have any issues.

I’m sorry things went down like this. Maybe things could have worked out better if you guys would have picked up the phone and spoken to one another. Not judging, but usually that would make a big difference in working things out, especially in a tight-nit amp community. But what’s done is done I guess.


You’ll love it more than likely, it’s truly an amazing amp!

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Thu, Apr 18, 2019 11:27pm

I wish Fatbagg and Abbath78 could work everything out and close this thread on a good note. That would do a lot to restore some trust around here. I don't want to comment more than necessary or take sides, but It's odd how it went from a simple tube issue straight to a Paypal dispute. In fact, from the way things were presented, it sounds like the tubes weren't even bad, but rather just mix-matched. Even if some of the tubes were faulty, it would have been simple enough to resolve. I don't know if there's any way to defend putting something up for sale as "mint" after filing a Paypal dispute. It would have been great if Fatbagg opened the thread with some evidence, timeline, and sequence of events instead of a brief, vague post. Abbath78's responses in this thread were rather disappointing as he seems to have done some things that require some degree of explanation. I hope you guys can work smooth things out and turn this into something positive.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 8:38am

One vital piece of the situation is missing, although it will not excuse Abbath's moves, but may help explain them..
What were the preamp tubes Fatgagg sent with the amp?
For an amp this new in production and that high up the boutique scale, there would be a reasonable expectation that the amp came with the original tubes, as preamp tubes last many years, and if not, then a newer set of the same model tubes would be the minimum I would expect
If they were a 'mish mash', as Abbath has said, and that would set off anyone having dropped big money on such a new piece
It seems to have driven a previously reliable buyer to meltdown and lose his usual reasonable approach
That balance to the situation is needed to help give a fuller picture

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 9:21am

Sick Squid wrote:One vital piece of the situation is missing, although it will not excuse Abbath's moves, but may help explain them..
What were the preamp tubes Fatgagg sent with the amp?
For an amp this new in production and that high up the boutique scale, there would be a reasonable expectation that the amp came with the original tubes, as preamp tubes last many years, and if not, then a newer set of the same model tubes would be the minimum I would expect
If they were a 'mish mash', as Abbath has said, and that would set off anyone having dropped big money on such a new piece
It seems to have driven a previously reliable buyer to meltdown and lose his usual reasonable approach
That balance to the situation is needed to help give a fuller picture


Even if it had a mix of proper tubes, that could have been easily handled. However, the amp had a sovtek lps in the PI slot, and the other positions were the Bogner recommended Shuguang 12ax7B. If that’s a mixed batch of tubes to cause a problem...

Again, however, in either case, the stacked lies and claiming it was broken and tying up my money and amp? As well, he NEVER mentioned an issue with mixed tubes until he tried to defend himself here. If you look at the messages posted, my first response to his dispute was I offered to buy him an entire set of tubes and send it. The problem at its core, however, was he just didn’t want the amp, hence immediately selling it while disputing with me via PayPal. His outlook was that he was getting his money either way. If he won the dispute, he got his money back to try another amp. If he sold it first, he would drop the dispute...which is what happened, other than he got caught lying/manipulating everyone.

I get where you are coming from, but the tubes were all the same minus the PI spot. On another note, it is not uncommon to have various Preamp tubes either. I mean you can order sets from most tube store for these amps with 3 or more different tube types. But I understand an amp this new might look better with all matching tube types, which it DID have. I wish the deal could e gone smooth as well, even if I had to do a return, I would honor that, no problem. But I won’t be used as a ‘try before you buy’ and lied to.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 9:57am

Amazing how people on here want to be ok with this bs. Filed a dispute after having the amp for 3 days? Thinking that is ok is not choosing a side? Posting an amp you label as being defective for sale in the classifieds as mint* and filing a paypal dispute telling the rigtalker you purchased it from it Is defective is something a buyer and seller should have to workout? UNREAL, obviously the ones mentioning * not take a side are trying to give props to the shady shit that was pulled. I wouldn't buy a patch cable from this dude! If I did I expect exactly what the fuck I am Leary about! And he has gear for sale in the classifieds now! Utterly fucking FUCKED! GREAT forum, as long as it wasnt me I am ok with it" I had great transactions with him so that makes it ok to fuck someone else as long as it's not me I am cool with it" fucked!

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 11:23am

Sounds to me like he didn't like it, or buyer's remorse, and fabricating an issue with it was plan B if he couldn't flip it. Kinda fucked up stringing someone along, and tying up their funds over your own ignorance.. Totally a dick move. I wouldn't buy or sell shit to this assclown. It's unacceptable, regardless. Anyone defending this behavior is nuts.
Last edited by napalmdeath on Fri, Apr 19, 2019 11:36am, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 11:25am

Unfortunate incident on here, but hopefully we can move forward... I'd like to hear a detailed review of the Eclipse. I heard it has a LOT of gain, so it's can get pretty noisey. But I like what I've heard in clips!

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 12:02pm

Shady AF. Surprised he didn’t list it as having the “built in flanger and swirling chorus mod.”

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 12:52pm

Junk Yard Dog wrote:Unfortunate incident on here, but hopefully we can move forward... I'd like to hear a detailed review of the Eclipse. I heard it has a LOT of gain, so it's can get pretty noisey. But I like what I've heard in clips!


It is an absolute monster of an amp, very full and harmonic. Easy to play, very forgiving. To me it had a Diezelesque quality to the higher gain sides. Other than a 101b, it’s my favorite bogner. I’d take it over the 20th any day.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 1:16pm

fatbagg wrote:
Junk Yard Dog wrote:Unfortunate incident on here, but hopefully we can move forward... I'd like to hear a detailed review of the Eclipse. I heard it has a LOT of gain, so it's can get pretty noisey. But I like what I've heard in clips!


It is an absolute monster of an amp, very full and harmonic. Easy to play, very forgiving. To me it had a Diezelesque quality to the higher gain sides. Other than a 101b, it’s my favorite bogner. I’d take it over the 20th any day.


For your demos, do you remember what cab/speakers and roughly what your amp settings were?

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 2:34pm

memberzonly wrote:
fatbagg wrote:
Junk Yard Dog wrote:Unfortunate incident on here, but hopefully we can move forward... I'd like to hear a detailed review of the Eclipse. I heard it has a LOT of gain, so it's can get pretty noisey. But I like what I've heard in clips!


It is an absolute monster of an amp, very full and harmonic. Easy to play, very forgiving. To me it had a Diezelesque quality to the higher gain sides. Other than a 101b, it’s my favorite bogner. I’d take it over the 20th any day.


For your demos, do you remember what cab/speakers and roughly what your amp settings were?


UK (Mesa) V30s, presence 8:30-9:00, treble 1000, mid 11-1, bass 9:00, gain 1:00. I used Eclipse+ and 80s mode.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 2:41pm

Ya I don’t think there is any good explanation to what happened here. It was clearly an unethical move.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 4:14pm

Well, I have one showing up Monday! I’m pretty stoked. There isn’t too much information on these. On paper it seems to be a perfect amp. We shall see!

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 4:55pm

Beandust wrote:Amazing how people on here want to be ok with this bs. Filed a dispute after having the amp for 3 days? Thinking that is ok is not choosing a side? Posting an amp you label as being defective for sale in the classifieds as mint* and filing a paypal dispute telling the rigtalker you purchased it from it Is defective is something a buyer and seller should have to workout? UNREAL, obviously the ones mentioning * not take a side are trying to give props to the shady shit that was pulled. I wouldn't buy a patch cable from this dude! If I did I expect exactly what the fuck I am Leary about! And he has gear for sale in the classifieds now! Utterly fucking FUCKED! GREAT forum, as long as it wasnt me I am ok with it" I had great transactions with him so that makes it ok to fuck someone else as long as it's not me I am cool with it" fucked!


The fact the he had it up for sale as mint while he was telling Paypal it was broken, holding the sellers forced refund is clearly unethical and just downright wrong. I doubt there was ever anything wrong with the amp. He was just setting the stage with PP so he could force a return upon the seller, but not right away... because he wanted to play the amp and really decide if he wanted to return it.

Once people see other people abusing the PP policies with no retribution more and more are going to try things like this. With paypal policies private sales can be forced to refund up to 90 days after the item is delivered. I'm glad you got your refund money returned to you fatbbag you could have lost out on your amp and money.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 5:37pm

There was a guy in LA who was doing that crap. Buying an amp and filing a paypal claim as soon as it showed up, using it as a means to try amps, then return them like it was Guitar Center. Some vintage dealer guy. Forgot his name, Kamm or something like that.

In any case, that kind of stuff stinks.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 5:39pm

Scumback Speakers wrote:There was a guy in LA who was doing that crap. Buying an amp and filing a paypal claim as soon as it showed up, using it as a means to try amps, then return them like it was Guitar Center. Some vintage dealer guy. Forgot his name, Kamm or something like that.

In any case, that kind of stuff stinks.


Kamran, I believe. He did it to Savage Riffer!

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 6:16pm

These people need to be banned from the classified section imo.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Fri, Apr 19, 2019 7:49pm

Scumback Speakers wrote:There was a guy in LA who was doing that crap. Buying an amp and filing a paypal claim as soon as it showed up, using it as a means to try amps, then return them like it was Guitar Center. Some vintage dealer guy. Forgot his name, Kamm or something like that.

In any case, that kind of stuff stinks.


It's such a shit move. It does not take into account peoples time, money, the REAL potential for a shipping service to truly mess something up (which is very high), theft..ect. We as musicians should watch out for each other, not pull these scheisser moves. :no:

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Sat, Apr 20, 2019 7:38pm

Wow, I learned some interesting stuff.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Sun, Apr 21, 2019 10:30am

I’ve never had pp hold funds on anything I sold . That’s just weird .
Anyway glad u got ur money

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Sun, Apr 21, 2019 10:51am

[quote="splatter"]I’ve never had pp hold funds on anything I sold . That’s just weird .
Anyway glad u got ur money

A dispute puts it on hold.

Also if you have an High increase in sales in a short time that it out of the ordinary, PayPal can put a hold on random ones as a security measure. In this case it was a dispute.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Sun, Apr 21, 2019 10:51am

The fact that Abbath78 hasn’t been back to comment speaks volumes. Stay away.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Sun, Apr 21, 2019 11:09am

In 15 years of the speaker business I've had five disputes. Every single one was by a scammer or idiot trying to pull a fast one. The last time I had one was about 3 years ago. A bozo here in So Cal bought a new Scumback M75 to match his used M75. Told me it got damaged in shipping, shipped it back damaged even further than his description. I have hidden date codes on my speakers, then a "Shipping Date" on the label. The rat bastard swapped the new label to the old speaker, kept the new one and filed a dispute. I showed paypal the build date, then the ship date. When they were 18 months apart, they agreed that I probably didn't build his speaker 18 months in advance, then put a new label on it.

Paypal then told me he had four different paypal disputes in three months over shipping damage, and two claims with Fedex over it, too. So the rat bastid was buying used/dead speakers, getting his money refunded by both paypal and Fedex.

I put a stop to that.

Some people are just plain wired wrong, and think they can do anything.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Sun, Apr 21, 2019 11:34am

Just wanted to add to this thread that I have experienced two fraud related disputes on Ebay over the last month! After being on ebay with no problems since 1999, times are changing.

The first was a dispute through paypal stating the 4 Celestions I sold were unauthorized transaction on his credit card. I contacted the buyer and he said he never disputed the charge? Paypal was contacted and they eventually returned my money- no explanation given.

Next up.. just sold an amp to a guy in Kentucky.. a few days AFTER the amp was delivered I get a dispute claim, this time through ebay, indicating the "amp never arrived". The ole "package never arrived" thing. I provided the tracking again indicating the package was delivered to the customer per fedex. The guy never emailed me directly ever.. went straight for the ebay dispute channel. Very strange fraud going on these days. The dispute is still open even though ebay told me over the phone that they will be siding with me based on the evidence.

Its really souring any eventual selling that I do.. I dont like the power paypal has to confiscate when anyone can make a claim and the seller has to prove the negative. My selling days are numbered I think. just as well anyway, all the amps I buy make me sound like me anyway. lol

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Sun, Apr 21, 2019 1:26pm

lespaul6 wrote:Next up.. just sold an amp to a guy in Kentucky.. a few days AFTER the amp was delivered I get a dispute claim, this time through ebay, indicating the "amp never arrived". The ole "package never arrived" thing. I provided the tracking again indicating the package was delivered to the customer per fedex. The guy never emailed me directly ever.. went straight for the ebay dispute channel. Very strange fraud going on these days. The dispute is still open even though ebay told me over the phone that they will be siding with me based on the evidence.

Its really souring any eventual selling that I do.. I dont like the power paypal has to confiscate when anyone can make a claim and the seller has to prove the negative. My selling days are numbered I think. just as well anyway, all the amps I buy make me sound like me anyway. lol


Sounds like this guy isn't too bright, since he did not ask for a signature required for delivery, it is on him if it gets ripped off from his house once it's delivered unless something has changed policy wise, FedEx won't pay a claim for a stolen package. Ebay or paypal can't possibly expect you(the seller) to cover a situation like this, can they? PP seems to be becoming quite authoritarian as of late. I've also heard they are demanding PP members send them a photocopy of a drivers license and social security card, I wouldn't trust them with that info, it's bad enough they have access to your Bank account.

I think people are just setting the stages with PP with their purchases so they can buy and try used gear and with the 90 days refund period PP is enforcing on sellers is draconian and even longer than Sweetwater's 45 day return policy. I see alot of private sellers leaving the market place if this keeps up.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Sun, Apr 21, 2019 4:01pm

Scumback Speakers wrote:In 15 years of the speaker business I've had five disputes. Every single one was by a scammer or idiot trying to pull a fast one. The last time I had one was about 3 years ago. A bozo here in So Cal bought a new Scumback M75 to match his used M75. Told me it got damaged in shipping, shipped it back damaged even further than his description. I have hidden date codes on my speakers, then a "Shipping Date" on the label. The rat bastard swapped the new label to the old speaker, kept the new one and filed a dispute. I showed paypal the build date, then the ship date. When they were 18 months apart, they agreed that I probably didn't build his speaker 18 months in advance, then put a new label on it.

Paypal then told me he had four different paypal disputes in three months over shipping damage, and two claims with Fedex over it, too. So the rat bastid was buying used/dead speakers, getting his money refunded by both paypal and Fedex.

I put a stop to that.

Some people are just plain wired wrong, and think they can do anything.

Seems like a genius way to do a low overhead reconing business :lol: :LOL:

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Sun, Apr 21, 2019 5:25pm

fatbagg wrote:
Sick Squid wrote:One vital piece of the situation is missing, although it will not excuse Abbath's moves, but may help explain them..
What were the preamp tubes Fatgagg sent with the amp?
For an amp this new in production and that high up the boutique scale, there would be a reasonable expectation that the amp came with the original tubes, as preamp tubes last many years, and if not, then a newer set of the same model tubes would be the minimum I would expect
If they were a 'mish mash', as Abbath has said, and that would set off anyone having dropped big money on such a new piece
It seems to have driven a previously reliable buyer to meltdown and lose his usual reasonable approach
That balance to the situation is needed to help give a fuller picture


Even if it had a mix of proper tubes, that could have been easily handled. However, the amp had a sovtek lps in the PI slot, and the other positions were the Bogner recommended Shuguang 12ax7B. If that’s a mixed batch of tubes to cause a problem...

Again, however, in either case, the stacked lies and claiming it was broken and tying up my money and amp? As well, he NEVER mentioned an issue with mixed tubes until he tried to defend himself here. If you look at the messages posted, my first response to his dispute was I offered to buy him an entire set of tubes and send it. The problem at its core, however, was he just didn’t want the amp, hence immediately selling it while disputing with me via PayPal. His outlook was that he was getting his money either way. If he won the dispute, he got his money back to try another amp. If he sold it first, he would drop the dispute...which is what happened, other than he got caught lying/manipulating everyone.

I get where you are coming from, but the tubes were all the same minus the PI spot. On another note, it is not uncommon to have various Preamp tubes either. I mean you can order sets from most tube store for these amps with 3 or more different tube types. But I understand an amp this new might look better with all matching tube types, which it DID have. I wish the deal could e gone smooth as well, even if I had to do a return, I would honor that, no problem. But I won’t be used as a ‘try before you buy’ and lied to.

No counter from Abbath.
Your info seems legit, and you know your tubes.
I would have simply thrown in a new tube into the first position and assessed the sounds from there.

The Eclipse is quite an assault, and as a seasoned Bogner user, was not a sound I was expecting when I demoed the amp.
Seems like this case was buyer's remorse gone ballistic.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Sun, Apr 21, 2019 5:54pm

scottosan wrote:Seems like a genius way to do a low overhead reconing business :lol: :LOL:


I'm sure he got away with it with some companies, just not mine. Still it was a real fucktard move, IMO.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Mon, Apr 22, 2019 10:41am

Scumback Speakers wrote:I have hidden date codes on my speakers, then a "Shipping Date" on the label.

:lol: :LOL: That is pretty awesome honestly. Foolproof way of not getting beat by on of these guys.

Shouldn't have to worry about those things but unfortunately you do.

I agree that people should look out for each other, especially gear nerds. Weather it be a good company, a forum dude or whoever. Karma is a bitch though.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Mon, Apr 22, 2019 7:11pm

Sick Squid wrote:
fatbagg wrote:
Sick Squid wrote:One vital piece of the situation is missing, although it will not excuse Abbath's moves, but may help explain them..
What were the preamp tubes Fatgagg sent with the amp?
For an amp this new in production and that high up the boutique scale, there would be a reasonable expectation that the amp came with the original tubes, as preamp tubes last many years, and if not, then a newer set of the same model tubes would be the minimum I would expect
If they were a 'mish mash', as Abbath has said, and that would set off anyone having dropped big money on such a new piece
It seems to have driven a previously reliable buyer to meltdown and lose his usual reasonable approach
That balance to the situation is needed to help give a fuller picture


Even if it had a mix of proper tubes, that could have been easily handled. However, the amp had a sovtek lps in the PI slot, and the other positions were the Bogner recommended Shuguang 12ax7B. If that’s a mixed batch of tubes to cause a problem...

Again, however, in either case, the stacked lies and claiming it was broken and tying up my money and amp? As well, he NEVER mentioned an issue with mixed tubes until he tried to defend himself here. If you look at the messages posted, my first response to his dispute was I offered to buy him an entire set of tubes and send it. The problem at its core, however, was he just didn’t want the amp, hence immediately selling it while disputing with me via PayPal. His outlook was that he was getting his money either way. If he won the dispute, he got his money back to try another amp. If he sold it first, he would drop the dispute...which is what happened, other than he got caught lying/manipulating everyone.

I get where you are coming from, but the tubes were all the same minus the PI spot. On another note, it is not uncommon to have various Preamp tubes either. I mean you can order sets from most tube store for these amps with 3 or more different tube types. But I understand an amp this new might look better with all matching tube types, which it DID have. I wish the deal could e gone smooth as well, even if I had to do a return, I would honor that, no problem. But I won’t be used as a ‘try before you buy’ and lied to.

No counter from Abbath.
Your info seems legit, and you know your tubes.
I would have simply thrown in a new tube into the first position and assessed the sounds from there.

The Eclipse is quite an assault, and as a seasoned Bogner user, was not a sound I was expecting when I demoed the amp.
Seems like this case was buyer's remorse gone ballistic.


Damn near every amp I've sold had a preamp cocktail. Alot of times I rolled tubes and left the best compliment in it. The Bogner probably had all JJ or all Chinese, neither of which would be my choice. Hell, an LPS in the PI is typically an upgrade. I normally go with a Tungsol in V1, JJ in 2 & 3, and LPS in the PI.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Mon, Apr 22, 2019 9:17pm

napalmdeath wrote:
Sick Squid wrote:
fatbagg wrote:
Sick Squid wrote:One vital piece of the situation is missing, although it will not excuse Abbath's moves, but may help explain them..
What were the preamp tubes Fatgagg sent with the amp?
For an amp this new in production and that high up the boutique scale, there would be a reasonable expectation that the amp came with the original tubes, as preamp tubes last many years, and if not, then a newer set of the same model tubes would be the minimum I would expect
If they were a 'mish mash', as Abbath has said, and that would set off anyone having dropped big money on such a new piece
It seems to have driven a previously reliable buyer to meltdown and lose his usual reasonable approach
That balance to the situation is needed to help give a fuller picture


Even if it had a mix of proper tubes, that could have been easily handled. However, the amp had a sovtek lps in the PI slot, and the other positions were the Bogner recommended Shuguang 12ax7B. If that’s a mixed batch of tubes to cause a problem...

Again, however, in either case, the stacked lies and claiming it was broken and tying up my money and amp? As well, he NEVER mentioned an issue with mixed tubes until he tried to defend himself here. If you look at the messages posted, my first response to his dispute was I offered to buy him an entire set of tubes and send it. The problem at its core, however, was he just didn’t want the amp, hence immediately selling it while disputing with me via PayPal. His outlook was that he was getting his money either way. If he won the dispute, he got his money back to try another amp. If he sold it first, he would drop the dispute...which is what happened, other than he got caught lying/manipulating everyone.

I get where you are coming from, but the tubes were all the same minus the PI spot. On another note, it is not uncommon to have various Preamp tubes either. I mean you can order sets from most tube store for these amps with 3 or more different tube types. But I understand an amp this new might look better with all matching tube types, which it DID have. I wish the deal could e gone smooth as well, even if I had to do a return, I would honor that, no problem. But I won’t be used as a ‘try before you buy’ and lied to.

No counter from Abbath.
Your info seems legit, and you know your tubes.
I would have simply thrown in a new tube into the first position and assessed the sounds from there.

The Eclipse is quite an assault, and as a seasoned Bogner user, was not a sound I was expecting when I demoed the amp.
Seems like this case was buyer's remorse gone ballistic.


Damn near every amp I've sold had a preamp cocktail. Alot of times I rolled tubes and left the best compliment in it. The Bogner probably had all JJ or all Chinese, neither of which would be my choice. Hell, an LPS in the PI is typically an upgrade. I normally go with a Tungsol in V1, JJ in 2 & 3, and LPS in the PI.


Almost every time I have bought a used amp on the internet, I have told them to just take the tubes out and keep them. Send it with no tubes.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Mon, Apr 22, 2019 10:14pm

https://youtu.be/R0wla6Q1elY

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Wed, Apr 24, 2019 10:56am

Scumback Speakers wrote:In 15 years of the speaker business I've had five disputes. Every single one was by a scammer or idiot trying to pull a fast one. The last time I had one was about 3 years ago. A bozo here in So Cal bought a new Scumback M75 to match his used M75. Told me it got damaged in shipping, shipped it back damaged even further than his description. I have hidden date codes on my speakers, then a "Shipping Date" on the label. The rat bastard swapped the new label to the old speaker, kept the new one and filed a dispute. I showed paypal the build date, then the ship date. When they were 18 months apart, they agreed that I probably didn't build his speaker 18 months in advance, then put a new label on it.

Paypal then told me he had four different paypal disputes in three months over shipping damage, and two claims with Fedex over it, too. So the rat bastid was buying used/dead speakers, getting his money refunded by both paypal and Fedex.

I put a stop to that.

Some people are just plain wired wrong, and think they can do anything.


Douchebag Pfapin... if I recall correctly. Dude is/was shady. :jerkit:

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Wed, Apr 24, 2019 12:19pm

Sad day when Guitar Center has become the best place to buy used gear.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Wed, Apr 24, 2019 11:23pm

dooredge wrote:Douchebag Pfapin... if I recall correctly. Dude is/was shady. :jerkit:


Nope, not in this instance, but he definitely tried to. He actually fucked Fedex with his return shipment of speakers. His uncle ran a UPS store. He had his shitty packing job "certified" by Fedex with false information about the contents. The Fedex claims guy came out, inspected the damage due to 1/2" of packing for four speakers (two boxes of them), and told me they were screwed because of the way it was represented and certified. He declined to tell me what was stated or represented, but the guy was pissed. So pfapin05 he got all his money back, purposely packed the speakers badly, and skated on being a douche 18 months later.

That's the kind of crap I'm talking about, though, so you did guess right on one count.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Mon, May 06, 2019 9:44pm

Count me in as one of the people having problems with this guy

Here's my thread: https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=203166

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Tue, May 07, 2019 2:36pm

Looks like the pattern continues. I had a couple of pending deals with him that he never followed through. He'd ask about a guitar, we'd agree on a price, I'd give him my paypal info, then nothing. No reply to me asking if it was still on, nothing. Would see him posting gear FS whatever all during this. Then a few months later he'd start the process over again. Never reported it as he never truly "scammed" me, but still... got a bad feeling to the point I wouldn't have tried to sell him anything again. Good move he's been banned.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Tue, May 07, 2019 4:26pm

overthemountain wrote:Looks like the pattern continues. I had a couple of pending deals with him that he never followed through. He'd ask about a guitar, we'd agree on a price, I'd give him my paypal info, then nothing. No reply to me asking if it was still on, nothing. Would see him posting gear FS whatever all during this. Then a few months later he'd start the process over again. Never reported it as he never truly "scammed" me, but still... got a bad feeling to the point I wouldn't have tried to sell him anything again. Good move he's been banned.


Wow, I have been through the same exact thing with that guy..super flaky dude.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Tue, May 07, 2019 6:37pm

Wow, repeat offender. Any grace is certainly gone.

Ban this guy already.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Wed, May 08, 2019 10:41pm

One of the other threads said he was gone.

What a stain.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Thu, May 09, 2019 8:14am

he has a guitar listed for sale in the classifieds and his profile still looks active - guess he's not banned.

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Wed, Sep 25, 2019 11:21am

So did Abbath send you this Eclipse back? I see you have an Eclipse for sale in the classifieds section...

Re: Abbath78 scammed me

Thu, Sep 26, 2019 9:47am

Haha, No this one was bought brand new. Actually I traded a Knaggs for it in a store in Atlanta. I am the original and only owner of this one. I really dig this one, Bogner has it fitted with non Shuguang tubes, and while I normally love those, the amp is WAY quieter and eased back on the gain on this one. If any proof is needed I can give you the guys store I got it from. Different serial as well. I wouldn’t touch anything abbath78 ever had his hands on. I am having a new neck done for my Suhr, and I have another amp so I’m going to sell this one and put the money aside for the neck, and use $1500-2000 on an amp. Probably get the MK50, 101b, or a Suhr Hedgehog.

https://youtu.be/LzKB4Wvo39A
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