Final FORTIN MESHUGGAH Preorder

FourT6and2":1y6sc553 said:
scottosan":1y6sc553 said:
Also the circuit is pretty vanilla and quite honestly not even a Fortin design.
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Didn't Cameron originally pioneer this mod? JCM800 with a "Jose" mod has been around for a long time. Maybe 30 years?
I think a bunch of Jose's unfinished amps were put in Cameron's lap after Jose passed away.
And Mark finished building them with his own innovations.
I've heard Cameron even gave (and still gives) advice to many builders who are now out building their own amps.



1.
I have no personal problem with outsourcing. It's a smart biz decision. But tell the customer. Be transparent.

2.
I bought a Meshuggah amp. Nobody told me it was outsourced. I figured it out when it shipped from Holly, MI.
I asked Fortin about it and he confirmed. This is after the amp had already shipped.
But ok, whatever. I figured I’d give the amp a chance.

3.
My Meshuggah amp didn't work right.
Long story short: Fortin paid for return shipping, checked it out, and gave me a refund.
Ok fine, no harm no foul.

4:
100 amps might take a little over a year to build with another person to help split the load.
But that's with little downtime. It'd be torture and I'd go mad. But for $333,000 in revenue, I'd do it.
Lots of people work harder in a year for way less.
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the first was Jose Arredondo. See attached schematics. This is where it started. Mainly just preamp and topology changes on a NMV Marshall reusing the 68ks as voltage dividers. Kept down stream voltage dividers and stayed pretty traditional for the tone stack aside from the "Jose Master with clipping" and then no modifications to the power section. Then came Mark who worked at a shop that took possession of many of the amps Jose had. Marks designs evolved from changes in voltage dividers/caps, tone stack changes as well as alot of changes to the power/NFB that was influenced from Bogner. The Meshuggah is really close to a vintage Jose with no power section/NFB enhancements, thus the bright tone. Fortins Cali is based on the Cameron Jose with power section tweaks and has been busted for copying some obscure component choices from some of Marks amps.

Marks take on the original Jose a larger departer from the original than comparing Fortins take to either.

Also 330,000 is before parts, assembly, overhead etc.. I'd expect maybe clear under 100k at best.
 

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godgrinder":3mleajjx said:
scottosan":3mleajjx said:
and there is speculation that other amps are based on models from Larry Amps. Fortin bought a few models right before formally opening shop.
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Larry has hinted the Grind/Girth controls on Natas/Satan were lifted from his Bite/Punch controls.

I played my friend's Bones and have some sneaky feeling that it might has something to do with Wizard.
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"hinted" is a bit of an understatement from some of the stuff I've read. :LOL: :LOL:
 
I wish there was a builder in the US that was doing a simple Jose (vintage style mod) with no changes to the power section at a decent price! I cant think of one?
 
scottosan":30o1qxlg said:
Also 330,000 is before parts, assembly, overhead etc.. I'd expect maybe clear under 100k at best.
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Right. That's why I said "revenue." That is gross. Before expenses.
 
FourT6and2":1l7acdvd said:
scottosan":1l7acdvd said:
Also 330,000 is before parts, assembly, overhead etc.. I'd expect maybe clear under 100k at best.
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Right. That's why I said "revenue." That is gross. Before expenses.
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Yes, not worth the headache of dealing with flakey musicians and inflated egos. :LOL: :LOL:
 
FWIW, when folks think a product is made in a certain shop and have expectations that it's going to be done to a higher standard then maybe an outsourced build folks speak with their wallets. For instance, when Peavey claimed their Invective amp was going to be "Made in the U.S.A." folks were pretty excited for a 5150 amp being built in the USA again vs China. And when people heard that plan had changed and Peavey outsourced the build back to China folks got their panties in a wad. I'm not saying that's the same scenario here, but unless the builder is transparent about manufacturing location then they're opening themselves up for criticism and backlash. We all know Friedman, Morgan, Bogner, Tone King, and others have outsourced some if not most of their products (heads, cabs, pedals) but perhaps Fortin should have made it clear either way.
 
UberschallEL34":2quif0ls said:
FWIW, when folks think a product is made in a certain shop and have expectations that it's going to be done to a higher standard then maybe an outsourced build folks speak with their wallets. For instance, when Peavey claimed their Invective amp was going to be "Made in the U.S.A." folks were pretty excited for a 5150 amp being built in the USA again vs China. And when people heard that plan had changed and Peavey outsourced the build back to China folks got their panties in a wad. I'm not saying that's the same scenario here, but unless the builder is transparent about manufacturing location then they're opening themselves up for criticism and backlash. We all know Friedman, Morgan, Bogner, Tone King, and others have outsourced some if not most of their products (heads, cabs, pedals) but perhaps Fortin should have made it clear either way.
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I don't know if it's a fair comparison. 1 guy can NOT make 100 turret construction amps in any reasonable amount of time.

So if you are going to build a turret board construction Matshsll based single channel amp with some vanilla mod, then Metro is the logical choice. I will venture to say they are better at that than Mike. Just My 2 cents
 
First batch was done over a year ago (May/June 2017) so 18 months to build 5 batches of 20 isn't impossible by any means, especially if you have a couple folks that assist with the builds, then testing and QC - again, Rick St Pierre can crank out a good # of amps in his shop - he may have a little help, but maybe he's just good at it.
 
Rick is able to do a good many amps.. he's got a system down and knowing him, nobody is helping. lol
 
scottosan":16mq70gq said:
FourT6and2":16mq70gq said:
scottosan":16mq70gq said:
Also 330,000 is before parts, assembly, overhead etc.. I'd expect maybe clear under 100k at best.
Click to expand...

Right. That's why I said "revenue." That is gross. Before expenses.
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Yes, not worth the headache of dealing with flakey musicians and inflated egos. :LOL: :LOL:
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Yeah, which is why it's just a hobby for many of us. It's fun and all, but I do a lot better in my day job :LOL: :LOL:

Good on Fortin for monetizing it though.
 
I had a Fortin Cali mod here for a bit. It was built on a 100 watt JCM800 re-issue.
The amp sounded OK, nothing special, but it was a complete F'n hack job inside. Not what I was expecting at all, after all the Fortin forum hype.
I started having reliability issues with components literally coming loose and falling off from their solder locations, and I bailed.

Maybe the fact it's a METRO-SHUGGA ain't a bug, it's a feature..... :confused: :dunno:
 
fusedbrain":1hljjjg6 said:
I had a Fortin Cali mod here for a bit. It was built on a 100 watt JCM800 re-issue.
The amp sounded OK, nothing special, but it was a complete F'n hack job inside. Not what I was expecting at all, after all the Fortin forum hype.
I started having reliability issues with components literally coming loose and falling off from their solder locations, and I bailed.

Maybe the fact it's a METRO-SHUGGA ain't a bug, it's a feature..... :confused: :dunno:
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I had a Bones a few years ago. In all honesty, it was one of the best built amps I'd seen.
That is what I was expecting when I bought the Meshuggah.
 
I haven't purchased a Meshuggah and I think a lot of people are making good points here. I am in the Fortin FB group and I saw the adverts engage posted here. But I was under the assumption Mike was building these, with help. I didn't assume he was doing it alone, I assumed he had a workshop in Canada with a few people helping. Isn't that how the Meathead/Natas were built, pre-Randall?
 
FWIW, I own #82 from the Meshuggah run and Mike assured me in writing that he personally spent a good amount of time with each on his QC bench prior to shipping.
 
FourT6and2":4p2s6xzd said:
scottosan":4p2s6xzd said:
FourT6and2":4p2s6xzd said:
scottosan":4p2s6xzd said:
Also 330,000 is before parts, assembly, overhead etc.. I'd expect maybe clear under 100k at best.
Click to expand...

Right. That's why I said "revenue." That is gross. Before expenses.
Click to expand...
Yes, not worth the headache of dealing with flakey musicians and inflated egos. :LOL: :LOL:
Click to expand...

Yeah, which is why it's just a hobby for many of us. It's fun and all, but I do a lot better in my day job :LOL: :LOL:

Good on Fortin for monetizing it though.
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Yep we've had this conversation before, definitely not something I would want to do for a living :LOL: :LOL:

Salos":4p2s6xzd said:
I haven't purchased a Meshuggah and I think a lot of people are making good points here. I am in the Fortin FB group and I saw the adverts engage posted here. But I was under the assumption Mike was building these, with help. I didn't assume he was doing it alone, I assumed he had a workshop in Canada with a few people helping. Isn't that how the Meathead/Natas were built, pre-Randall?
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Mike was a one man show pre-Randall, it was one of the reasons production of the amps was so slow.
 
fusedbrain":3lhdkynb said:
I had a Fortin Cali mod here for a bit. It was built on a 100 watt JCM800 re-issue.
The amp sounded OK, nothing special, but it was a complete F'n hack job inside. Not what I was expecting at all, after all the Fortin forum hype.
I started having reliability issues with components literally coming loose and falling off from their solder locations, and I bailed.

Maybe the fact it's a METRO-SHUGGA ain't a bug, it's a feature..... :confused: :dunno:
Click to expand...
That Ceriatone 2204 Cali I had was Fn work of art. Surprises me yours wasn't. I should've taken a pic just for memories sake. My local tech was amazed and he has his own build he sells from time to time, for a pretty good price. More of a clean tone circuit. But after the PT went out, he had to call Mike to ask about replacing the pt, and how to navigate the mod.
 
Racerxrated":1s030o68 said:
fusedbrain":1s030o68 said:
I had a Fortin Cali mod here for a bit. It was built on a 100 watt JCM800 re-issue.
The amp sounded OK, nothing special, but it was a complete F'n hack job inside. Not what I was expecting at all, after all the Fortin forum hype.
I started having reliability issues with components literally coming loose and falling off from their solder locations, and I bailed.

Maybe the fact it's a METRO-SHUGGA ain't a bug, it's a feature..... :confused: :dunno:
Click to expand...
That Ceriatone 2204 Cali I had was Fn work of art. Surprises me yours wasn't. I should've taken a pic just for memories sake. My local tech was amazed and he has his own build he sells from time to time, for a pretty good price. More of a clean tone circuit. But after the PT went out, he had to call Mike to ask about replacing the pt, and how to navigate the mod.
Click to expand...

Perhaps he's just trying to stir the shit deeper :LOL: :LOL:
 
adamus":3svjqo7l said:
FWIW, I own #82 from the Meshuggah run and Mike assured me in writing that he personally spent a good amount of time with each on his QC bench prior to shipping.
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So that means he played and function checked it.... I question that though since they are made and shipped in MI and he is in Canada unless he spends alot of time in MI
 
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