Suggestions - using multiple amps , cabs in practice room.

rickenbacker198

rickenbacker198

Active member
Some of you have killer setups so I’m hoping someone can help..
I’m trying to figure out the best way to hook up all my amps and cabs up so they can be switched easily.
Also want the option of multiple mamps at once.

I have a creation audio labs MW-1 I was hoping this would
Help with ground loops to at least run two heads at once ..
sounds great but unfortunately it doesn’t do anything with ground loops.

What I want to do.

6 amps
VH4
Herbert
Schmidt
PT-100
Maz38
Kemper/ Strategy 500 (one side)

6 cabs
Wizard 412 H30
Diezel 412 FL V30
Mesa Traditional 412 V30
Mesa 1x12 Evm
Diezel 412 RL V30
Port City 212 GB

Without changing cables.
Send any amp to any cab.
Run any amp I want.
Run multiple amps at once.
No more ground loop nightmare.

I know this might take 2 devices.
1 splitter then 1 or 2 switchers?

What can you recommend?
 
To get ALL of that you will probably need a very elaborate custom switching device that can handle dummy loads for six amplifiers at the same time in addition to managing the switching. Most devices on the market are for smaller scale operations people ask for like switching two heads into one cab or switching one head into two cabinets. There are many audio switchers that can handle the ins and outs you need. The problem is the speaker handling and load management.

This device is probably closest to what you want but it doesn't allow multiple amps at once. https://www.kahayan.es/selector-8x4
 
Marykelly":jqr5ghe9 said:
To get ALL of that you will probably need a very elaborate custom switching device that can handle dummy loads for six amplifiers at the same time in addition to managing the switching. Most devices on the market are for smaller scale operations people ask for like switching two heads into one cab or switching one head into two cabinets. There are many audio switchers that can handle the ins and outs you need. The problem is the speaker handling and load management.

This device is probably closest to what you want but it doesn't allow multiple amps at once. https://www.kahayan.es/selector-8x4
Click to expand...

I do 8 heads and 4 cabs with this.
I have many more that would need another Kahayan but the one works for now.
There are tricks to remove ground loops and noise issues they helped me with.


If you ever buy one, get with me and I will share other info they gave me.
But to start;

Do NOT STACK heads on top of one another , Get the amps on some kind of shelving.
And you need to line up the amps . Meaning output transformers over another amp that has the same tranny location.
PLUS,using the the amps grounding is causing noise.
Bypass it with the "3 into 2" adapter for each amp.

This info come from the Pros at Kahayan and is backed up by studios and rack systems they have delt with.
Others might argue the 3 into 2 adapters. I was skeptical until I did all 8 amps that get powered by an expensive Furman.
NOISE GONE PERIOD
 
Marykelly":7yi2w81c said:
To get ALL of that you will probably need a very elaborate custom switching device that can handle dummy loads for six amplifiers at the same time in addition to managing the switching. Most devices on the market are for smaller scale operations people ask for like switching two heads into one cab or switching one head into two cabinets. There are many audio switchers that can handle the ins and outs you need. The problem is the speaker handling and load management.

This device is probably closest to what you want but it doesn't allow multiple amps at once. https://www.kahayan.es/selector-8x4
Click to expand...
Yeah the Kahayan stuff seems to be solid. The Ampete stuff is great but higher price, although you do get shared effects loops which is cool.
 
I’d like something like the Ampete 4x4/8x8 or Kahayan, but my hang up is you can only play one amp at a time. Only the Ampete 2x2 lets you play 2 amps at once
 
John4021":emss7fa9 said:
Marykelly":emss7fa9 said:
To get ALL of that you will probably need a very elaborate custom switching device that can handle dummy loads for six amplifiers at the same time in addition to managing the switching. Most devices on the market are for smaller scale operations people ask for like switching two heads into one cab or switching one head into two cabinets. There are many audio switchers that can handle the ins and outs you need. The problem is the speaker handling and load management.

This device is probably closest to what you want but it doesn't allow multiple amps at once. https://www.kahayan.es/selector-8x4
Click to expand...

I do 8 heads and 4 cabs with this.
I have many more that would need another Kahayan but the one works for now.
There are tricks to remove ground loops and noise issues they helped me with.


If you ever buy one, get with me and I will share other info they gave me.
But to start;

Do NOT STACK heads on top of one another , Get the amps on some kind of shelving.
And you need to line up the amps . Meaning output transformers over another amp that has the same tranny location.
PLUS,using the the amps grounding is causing noise.
Bypass it with the "3 into 2" adapter for each amp.

This info come from the Pros at Kahayan and is backed up by studios and rack systems they have delt with.
Others might argue the 3 into 2 adapters. I was skeptical until I did all 8 amps that get powered by an expensive Furman.
NOISE GONE PERIOD
Click to expand...
My opinion only, and I don't mean to offend anybody, but lifting the ground connections on tube guitar amps seems like the dumbest advice I've ever heard. :thumbsdown:
Sure it kills the noise, but that's not all it could kill......
I can't believe any reputable tech would suggest this.
YMMV
 
Agreed, I wouldn't lift the ground connection.

Another thing to consider is that any given combination of channels on two different amps have a 50/50 chance of being out of phase and that's ANOTHER issue to deal with in a device that allows for switching. At one point I was working toward a multiamp rig just for home fun and between switching amp channels, ABY, phase issues, and effects loops, I decided that none of it was worth the extreme expense that solving EVERY problem would take. You have to plan for every possible variable that might need to change and once you get beyond a single variable, there isn't any product that is going to do what you want for more than two amps. The Mesa Headtrack seems like the best bet for just two amps to handle the switching alone. If you're talking about 6 amps and cabs there isn't anything that is going to cover all the variables. Even the stuff on the market is aimed at studios where there is lots of other gear and plenty of time to solve the minor problems that come up with phase and such.
 
John4021":2rfuddp0 said:
Marykelly":2rfuddp0 said:
To get ALL of that you will probably need a very elaborate custom switching device that can handle dummy loads for six amplifiers at the same time in addition to managing the switching. Most devices on the market are for smaller scale operations people ask for like switching two heads into one cab or switching one head into two cabinets. There are many audio switchers that can handle the ins and outs you need. The problem is the speaker handling and load management.

This device is probably closest to what you want but it doesn't allow multiple amps at once. https://www.kahayan.es/selector-8x4
Click to expand...

I do 8 heads and 4 cabs with this.
I have many more that would need another Kahayan but the one works for now.
There are tricks to remove ground loops and noise issues they helped me with.


If you ever buy one, get with me and I will share other info they gave me.
But to start;

Do NOT STACK heads on top of one another , Get the amps on some kind of shelving.
And you need to line up the amps . Meaning output transformers over another amp that has the same tranny location.
PLUS,using the the amps grounding is causing noise.
Bypass it with the "3 into 2" adapter for each amp.

This info come from the Pros at Kahayan and is backed up by studios and rack systems they have delt with.
Others might argue the 3 into 2 adapters. I was skeptical until I did all 8 amps that get powered by an expensive Furman.
NOISE GONE PERIOD
Click to expand...

Did they say why not to stack amp heads?
 
Marykelly":2nmzapm1 said:
Sounds like they were tying to avoid issues with magnetic interference between the amps.
Click to expand...

Great, that's what I thought. I'm free to stack away. haha.
 
Thanks for the suggestions
I read through the manuals of both the Ampete and Kahayan units.
If it could do at least 2 amps at a time and phase I’d be all over the midi Kahayan.

What about using something like the Radial JD7
http://www.radialeng.com/product/jd7/

Then a cab /amp switcher like De Lisle 8x8
http://www.delisleguitar.com/shop/de-lisle-amp-speaker-selector-8x8/

The amps would have to be in standby to switch cabs around, but it’s easier than re patching.
Am I asking for trouble ?
Anyone with Radial splitter experience ?
 
rickenbacker198":1rgxn15u said:
Thanks for the suggestions
I read through the manuals of both the Ampete and Kahayan units.
If it could do at least 2 amps at a time and phase I’d be all over the midi Kahayan.

What about using something like the Radial JD7
http://www.radialeng.com/product/jd7/

Then a cab /amp switcher like De Lisle 8x8
http://www.delisleguitar.com/shop/de-lisle-amp-speaker-selector-8x8/

The amps would have to be in standby to switch cabs around, but it’s easier than re patching.
Am I asking for trouble ?
Anyone with Radial splitter experience ?
Click to expand...

I'd personally scrap the cab switching and that would make things MUCH easier. Especially since 4 of the 6 cabs are very similar 4x12s. And once you have to switch all the amps to standby to change cabs you're dealing with about as much hassle as changing a plug here and there. IMO anything beyond being about to hit a switch to get the combination you want makes the whole thing not worthwhile. Its either all or nothing and the 'all' option is thousands of dollars in infrastructure.

Also, having all those amps on at the same time is going to make for a pretty dramatic noise floor if you leave them on the gain channels between switches. It would be enough hiss and hum in the room to make differences between cabs, possibly even the amps themselves, irrelevant.

How much do you plan on jumping back and forth between amps? It would probably be a lot easier to set up 3 2-amp rigs with Lehle Duals and be able to play two amps at once as well as switch between them. When you get more than two amps going in a rig, the expense of the infrastructure makes the luxury of that one extra tone completely not worth it. If switching the cabs around is enough of a priority, build or buy an easily-accessible patch bay for switching things around. If you use effects loops then swap out the Lehle Duals for Mesa Headtracks.
 
I got ahold of De Lisle, I was wrong ; apparently with their switcher you can switch the cabs live.
They have a load always present on each amps input.
He recommends at least rolling down the guitar volume as a precaution.
The De Lisle is simply a junction box the amps don’t interact with each other, grounds or otherwise.

I don’t plan to run more than 3 heads at once so the Lehle is an option , but honestly I’d rather leave it all hooked up.
So my only concern of going this way is the coloration from the radial JD7.
Anybody with Radial Splitter experience?

They all color a little..
I have read lots about Lehle, not much on the Radials.
 
The JD7 and De Lisle 8x8 would definitely do the job. No footswitch control but if you can get along with the two rack units and their various switching options that would work well.

$1600 for the two rack units, plus a rack and all the cables and power distribution. Pretty serious rig!
 
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