MESA Mark IV getting Mark IIC+ sounds.

stephen sawall

stephen sawall

Well-known member
Any other advice on this topic beyond my question more than welcome...

Usually I prefer the bass heavy / slower attack voice of the IV over the IIC+.

Lately I'm trying to get my IV Lead channel close to a IIC+ sound.

Switches on the back are set to -

TRIODE
SIMUL-CLASS
HARMONICS

Front is set ...

PRESENCE - Pull
LEAD DRIVE - Pull

My question should I pull or not the LEAD GAIN / PULL FAT to get closest to the IIC+ sound ???
 
I guess depends what kind of sound you get out of the IIC+. It has some similar settings with Pull Deep, Pull bright, Pull Bass etc. I find that the settings are more sensitive than on the IV, the slightest change on the IIC+ can have a big impact on sound.

On the IV I usually run the Lead Gain pulled but wouldn't be able to tell if it gets you closer to a IIC+ sound as there are so many ways you can set up the IIC+ controls to get vastly different tones (having Pull Deep activated or not for example)

Also, in my opinion the IV sounds just as good as the IIC+ (I have both). They each have their own character (II is maybe a bit more raw while the IV is a bit more compressed) but overall they are very similar sounding amps (same goes for the Mk III).
 
The Mark IV manual gives some basic settings to get the Mark IIC+ tone. IMO they need tweaked to your taste though.

IMO the LEAD GAIN / PULL FAT should be pulled if you are wanting that heavy IIC+ sound.

You can get it without the LEAD GAIN / PULL FAT pulled but it just takes more tweaking. These amps have so many tones it is insane but overall I think the Mark IV can pull off the Mark IIC+ tone very well.
 
I usually pull LEAD GAIN / PULL FAT. There is a few ways I set up the amp that I usually do. I'm try to step out of the box and become more familiar with the entire range of what the amp can do. I tend to go after bass heavy very scooped sounds with the IV for rhythm playing. I'm messing around with a brighter sound with a faster attack and a very focused bass.

Doing this I headed down the path of trying to get my IV closer to a IIC+ sound. I feel I am getting close enough for what I am doing.

I also very much like the lead channel with the GEQ off for playing lead. So I'm looking to get the best balance of this sound and lead channel with the GEQ on for scooped crunch rhythm.

It's really interesting the sounds you can find in a amp you had around almost 30 years. I bought it new when they first came out in 1990.
 
"From the schematics Lead Fat does the same as 'Treble Shift' " on the Mark IIC+.

This information came from jlb32 over at the Boogie Board.
 
Nothing here to record with.... But your always welcome to stop over Gary.

Played it a few hours last night with a full stack. It's sounding awesome.
 
I've been recording the last few weeks and I've used the Mark IV exclusively, out of laziness mostly. I've written some songs and I bought a super great cheap recorder, ZOOM LiveTrak 12. Having the option of pulling a knob to silence the amp for direct recording with a drummer has made it easy to not set the Mark IIC++ up and mic it up.
But after reading this thread, I'm going to bring my C++ to the studio and re-record the guitar a half step lower on a song I wrote and recorded last night. The drummer is happy to play the drums again after listening to the song that I heard in my head and created on the fly. Some lyrics have changed and the piss poor part half way through the lead has been eliminated.
Here it is, called "Game Over" as the drummer and I wrote and recorded it in a couple of hours. Mark IV ch.2, 1968 Celestion greenback speaker, Steinberger GR4 guitar middle pick-up. https://soundcloud.com/john-bazzano-502949899/tracks
 
For me probably the most interesting thing is how much it changes the feel and definition. The attack is much faster and the bass is much tighter than the way I usually set up the IV.

I'm also getting a much better balance of the four sounds on the foot switch.

Markedman or anyone else curious what you find comparing the various Mark amps ???

I've owned a IIB, IIC+, III red stripe and still own the IV a. I sold the other amps about 25 years ago. I'm trying to do this from memory and the rest of my gear is completely different.

I'm also messing around with boost and overdrive pedals. Something I have not done with the Mark amps in many years. Curious of what others are doing with pedals ???
 
I had a 1977 Marshall JMP 2203 50 watt head a few weeks ago and of course you need a pedal to get anywhere. I tried several and only one that was transparent? An old MRX Distortion +. I have a dozen or so boost/distortion pedals I used to use with my Marshalls years ago when I played only Marshall and Fender amps. I get such unbelievable tone without a boost with my Mark Boogies, I've stopped using boost pedals but I may give it a try to get feedback at a lower volume while recording. I'm bringing the C++ with me to the studio today to re-do the guitar tracks in the demo I did Tuesday and I'm doing the whole song over this weekend so I will have a studio recording of the IV v. C++. I also have a JP2C that I will record with.
 
Thanks. I'm going to blow the song up. I'll keep the parts but there's something wrong with vocal timbre and the lyrics suck, tempo's too slow, drummer hits random snare hits, but mostly it is too predictable for my style. I'll confer with the drummer to find out his opinion on changing it up but something about it rubs me wrong and I'd like to change the whole thing before I give up on it all together. My goal or saying is, pushing. If I don't push myself and at least do my best with what I have, my legacy music is much more shitty to this point in life.

Saying you like it is a big moral booster for sure. Lead tone, blah, puke, too compressed but at least I'm starting to find a path. I wanted to ditch the harmonic minor thing but,... Rhythm tone could be better also, I'll try class a EL34 only and less brightness.
 
I have a JB in the bridge of my LP. Putting a P-Rail in the neck, pair of Triple Shot pickup rings and phase switch in probably this weekend. Then I will tune the amp in more detail.
The Mark amps are so versatile they have always been able to keep up as my needs and taste have changed over the years.
 
Every amplifier wishes it was a Boogie. When it comes down to great tone, no matter what the style, Boogie Mark amps get that tone. Most amps sound good, maybe 1 out of 10 totally suck, not great when you're used to playing a Boogie. Most other amps sound confined and compressed as if there's a pillow over the speaker or a gremlin hidden inside not letting the tone out. Orange amps confound me with their impossibly dark tone and do Fender amps owners realize that that fucking thing is brighter than the sun and all the stars put together? Early Marshalls, b.1972 & Fender b.1972 have great tone but are limited without a proper boost pedal obviously.
 
I'm just into amps. I pretty much like all tube amps. But the Mesa Mark series has always been one of my favorites.
I've owned several Mesa amps over the years. Currently I have the Mark IV, Tremoverb and Heartbreaker. I don't think I will ever sell these.
 
Markedman":w38xm4s9 said:
I've been recording the last few weeks and I've used the Mark IV exclusively, out of laziness mostly. I've written some songs and I bought a super great cheap recorder, ZOOM LiveTrak 12. Having the option of pulling a knob to silence the amp for direct recording with a drummer has made it easy to not set the Mark IIC++ up and mic it up.
But after reading this thread, I'm going to bring my C++ to the studio and re-record the guitar a half step lower on a song I wrote and recorded last night. The drummer is happy to play the drums again after listening to the song that I heard in my head and created on the fly. Some lyrics have changed and the piss poor part half way through the lead has been eliminated.
Here it is, called "Game Over" as the drummer and I wrote and recorded it in a couple of hours. Mark IV ch.2, 1968 Celestion greenback speaker, Steinberger GR4 guitar middle pick-up. https://soundcloud.com/john-bazzano-502949899/tracks
Click to expand...

That intro rhythm riff has a very-STP-sound to it, at least in my opinion. Like I could have been a riff written after STP came up with Interstate Love Song.

Someone else uses Channel 2 besides me?
 
stephen sawall":d9rwn1ri said:
"From the schematics Lead Fat does the same as 'Treble Shift' " on the Mark IIC+.

This information came from jlb32 over at the Boogie Board.
Click to expand...

I normally don’t have the “pull deep” pulled, but it depends on the pickups I’m using.

I’ll have to look at the rest of my setting when I get home.
 
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