80's - 90's multi-fx units vs today's units?

jabps":3d6dbxx1 said:
I'll put in my .02 cents as I owned all of the below at one time.

Rocktron Intellifex, as was stated above all are good barring the "online" model. However the original blackface was the best IMO. I had this unit as a backup multi for years. Great delays, verbs and of course a fantastic chorus. Zero latency between patch changes.

Boss - Most of the half rack stuff was excellent. The SE 50, SE 70, VF-1. The full rack SX-700 was nice as well. I especially liked the SE-70.

Lexicon - MPX-1, very nice unit. I preferred this to the the G2. However, for me...there is a programming curve and I feel like I can program most anything or maybe I was just getting tired of that end of it. I don't know if they ever improved the units as production continued and then ceased but the latency between patches was the reason I removed it. Other than that, it's top quality. And in terms of pure sounds, the best I owned. But the latency was a no go.

Roland - GP16 and GP8. Both solid, never were my favorites.

TC - G Major. The first edition. Unfortunately I had phasing issue's I could never dial out however I like the layout and programming. I believe they addressed that issue but by then I had gone back to my go to.

Alesis - Quadraverb Plus, the upgrade of the original, my favorite. Quadraverb 2 - good sounds if you take the time to program.

My fave and one I still own and still use occasionally, Alesis Quadraverb Plus. I used it for Delay and Verb "only" and frankly, it's just so easy to program. Most of the other sounds are average at best, and depending on what you use in the unit can be noise but for just Delay and Verb, for me it was perfect and the unit I would always come back too. I've owned so many Quads, once they would die I would just buy another and data dump my programs into them. Even now when I hook it up my delays sit perfectly in the mix for me, so much so that any delay unit I've owned, I try and copy everything from it. Close as I've gotten is the Source Audio Nemesis which is what I use on my board now.

Depending on what you are after sound wise and programming wise I don't think you can go wrong with any of these older units. Most problems you'll encounter with these older units is the internal batteries going out. Screens dying etc...

My faves >

Alesis Quadraverb Plus
Rocktron Intellifex

Today's multi's...as was stated above. Get the Fractal FX8, learn the manual, learn to program it. It's an amazing piece of gear that can be had used for a decent price. Everytime in the past when I went down the floorboard multi hole there was always something that whatever unit I had didn't do, connect right etc... whatever. Not the Fractal. In fact this time the only issue with that unit was me. After decades of programming I know what I want and I simply didn't have the time to properly learn that unit. But the sounds I did dial in, the routing etc... was incredible. My only complaint was I wished it had a couple loops to throw in a favorite pedal. Fantastic sounding unit.

I still own the Rocktron Intellifex (my first delay processor) and Replifex (wonderful stompbox effects). I wanted to have the Replifex in front of the amp and Intellifex in the loop of the amp, but it would require an audio router box like the Voodoo Lab GCX audio switcher to bypass the Replifex processor when not in use and carry around a 4 to 6 space rack with the Furman power conditioner/Intellifex/Replifex/GCX audio switcher, audio & MIDI cables going to the amp & pedalboard with a MIDI controller/wah pedal/tuner pedal. I stopped using this set up as I found it tedious to carry the rack/MIDI controller pedal board and took my large rack apart.

The Intellifex is a digital delay limited by its software programming & capabilities. There are other better old school rack delays like the Lexicon PCM 41/42, PCM 70/80, Roland SDE 3000, Korg SDD 3000 & DL8000R, Yamaha UD Stomp.

The Replifex processor was my favorite for replicating old school stompbox type of effects in a rack format. I had 2 at one point and traded one of them off for the Zoom G9.2tt floor processor as I was moving away from the rack gear. The Leslie style rotary preset is very cool and it also had a relay to help out switching amp channels which the Rocktron Xpression didn't have when it was produced as their rack multi-effects.

I then went with a Zoom G9.2tt floor processor and Korg DL8000R delay with De Angelis presets. Great rig for multi-effects with the G9.2tt running into the amp input/MIDI controller for effects/amp channel switching via MIDI and the DL8000R delay in the amp's effects loop.

After dealing with the limitations of the Zoom G9.2tt floor processor and not wanting to carry the 4 space wet/dry rack with the Furman PL-Plus/Korg DL8000R/Mosvalve 982 power amp, I saved up my cash and went with a used Fractal Audio FX-8 MKII version & humbuster cables. I'm reading the manual/learning about the processor, programmed presets, and dialing it in with a Reverend Kingsnake combo amp as a clean amp platform. The audio/routing/relay/MIDI capabilities of the Fractal Audio FX-8 is miles ahead of the Boss/Zoom/Line 6 multi-effects floor processors on the market. It's not a cheap floor processor to buy used. I paid $800 plus shipping for mine, but for what it does, it has simplified my guitar rig and has allowed me to have my effects without carrying around the effects rack/MIDI controller pedalboard. I'm contemplating selling off my rack gear as a result of having the FX-8 in my guitar rig now.

That being said about old school rack effects, if I were to go back to using them, my favorites would be the Rocktron Replifex with a Voodoo Lab GCX audio switcher to bypass going to the amp/preamp input and the Korg DL8000R in the amp's effects loop or stereo power amp, being controlled by a Voodoo Lab Ground Control Pro MIDI controller/wah pedal/tuner pedal equipped pedal board.

Guitar George
 
Hamer95USA":1cbjmlyz said:
jabps":1cbjmlyz said:
I'll put in my .02 cents as I owned all of the below at one time.

Rocktron Intellifex, as was stated above all are good barring the "online" model. However the original blackface was the best IMO. I had this unit as a backup multi for years. Great delays, verbs and of course a fantastic chorus. Zero latency between patch changes.

Boss - Most of the half rack stuff was excellent. The SE 50, SE 70, VF-1. The full rack SX-700 was nice as well. I especially liked the SE-70.

Lexicon - MPX-1, very nice unit. I preferred this to the the G2. However, for me...there is a programming curve and I feel like I can program most anything or maybe I was just getting tired of that end of it. I don't know if they ever improved the units as production continued and then ceased but the latency between patches was the reason I removed it. Other than that, it's top quality. And in terms of pure sounds, the best I owned. But the latency was a no go.

Roland - GP16 and GP8. Both solid, never were my favorites.

TC - G Major. The first edition. Unfortunately I had phasing issue's I could never dial out however I like the layout and programming. I believe they addressed that issue but by then I had gone back to my go to.

Alesis - Quadraverb Plus, the upgrade of the original, my favorite. Quadraverb 2 - good sounds if you take the time to program.

My fave and one I still own and still use occasionally, Alesis Quadraverb Plus. I used it for Delay and Verb "only" and frankly, it's just so easy to program. Most of the other sounds are average at best, and depending on what you use in the unit can be noise but for just Delay and Verb, for me it was perfect and the unit I would always come back too. I've owned so many Quads, once they would die I would just buy another and data dump my programs into them. Even now when I hook it up my delays sit perfectly in the mix for me, so much so that any delay unit I've owned, I try and copy everything from it. Close as I've gotten is the Source Audio Nemesis which is what I use on my board now.

Depending on what you are after sound wise and programming wise I don't think you can go wrong with any of these older units. Most problems you'll encounter with these older units is the internal batteries going out. Screens dying etc...

My faves >

Alesis Quadraverb Plus
Rocktron Intellifex

Today's multi's...as was stated above. Get the Fractal FX8, learn the manual, learn to program it. It's an amazing piece of gear that can be had used for a decent price. Everytime in the past when I went down the floorboard multi hole there was always something that whatever unit I had didn't do, connect right etc... whatever. Not the Fractal. In fact this time the only issue with that unit was me. After decades of programming I know what I want and I simply didn't have the time to properly learn that unit. But the sounds I did dial in, the routing etc... was incredible. My only complaint was I wished it had a couple loops to throw in a favorite pedal. Fantastic sounding unit.

I still own the Rocktron Intellifex (my first delay processor) and Replifex (wonderful stompbox effects). I wanted to have the Replifex in front of the amp and Intellifex in the loop of the amp, but it would require an audio router box like the Voodoo Lab GCX audio switcher to bypass the Replifex processor when not in use and carry around a 4 to 6 space rack with the Furman power conditioner/Intellifex/Replifex/GCX audio switcher, audio & MIDI cables going to the amp & pedalboard with a MIDI controller/wah pedal/tuner pedal. I stopped using this set up as I found it tedious to carry the rack/MIDI controller pedal board and took my large rack apart.

The Intellifex is a digital delay limited by its software programming & capabilities. There are other better old school rack delays like the Lexicon PCM 41/42, PCM 70/80, Roland SDE 3000, Korg SDD 3000 & DL8000R, Yamaha UD Stomp.

The Replifex processor was my favorite for replicating old school stompbox type of effects in a rack format. I had 2 at one point and traded one of them off for the Zoom G9.2tt floor processor as I was moving away from the rack gear. The Leslie style rotary preset is very cool and it also had a relay to help out switching amp channels which the Rocktron Xpression didn't have when it was produced as their rack multi-effects.

I then went with a Zoom G9.2tt floor processor and Korg DL8000R delay with De Angelis presets. Great rig for multi-effects with the G9.2tt running into the amp input/MIDI controller for effects/amp channel switching via MIDI and the DL8000R delay in the amp's effects loop.

After dealing with the limitations of the Zoom G9.2tt floor processor and not wanting to carry the 4 space wet/dry rack with the Furman PL-Plus/Korg DL8000R/Mosvalve 982 power amp, I saved up my cash and went with a used Fractal Audio FX-8 MKII version & humbuster cables. I'm reading the manual/learning about the processor, programmed presets, and dialing it in with a Reverend Kingsnake combo amp as a clean amp platform. The audio/routing/relay/MIDI capabilities of the Fractal Audio FX-8 is miles ahead of the Boss/Zoom/Line 6 multi-effects floor processors on the market. It's not a cheap floor processor to buy used. I paid $800 plus shipping for mine, but for what it does, it has simplified my guitar rig and has allowed me to have my effects without carrying around the effects rack/MIDI controller pedalboard. I'm contemplating selling off my rack gear as a result of having the FX-8 in my guitar rig now.

That being said about old school rack effects, if I were to go back to using them, my favorites would be the Rocktron Replifex with a Voodoo Lab GCX audio switcher to bypass going to the amp/preamp input and the Korg DL8000R in the amp's effects loop or stereo power amp, being controlled by a Voodoo Lab Ground Control Pro MIDI controller/wah pedal/tuner pedal equipped pedal board.

Guitar George
Yep, I had the whole GCX setup. Stated with racked pre-amps, power amps and effects in stereo. Sounded amazing but playing clubs and small halls when you're the roadie lol. Year after year it would get downsized. Still had a lot of gear in the end but I had it down to amp, cab, 6 space rack with my Quad, pedals racked, switcher, and Furman. Midi board with tuner and wah. It still wore me out lol. I've got everything down to just a pedalboard now.

Loved the Fractal, that was the whole idea...everything in that one piece of gear on the floor and my amp + 2x12. I just literally hit the proverbial brick wall in programming it. Wasn't that I couldn't, I just didn't "want" to spend time programming anymore. I've learned my Boss-ES5 and the apps with the Nemesis and Ventris and I'm good now. Really the biggest hang up for me on the Fractal was learning the switching...I actually dialed in great delays and verbs right off the bat. Modulations were going to take more time at least for me as I love the old MXR Phase and Flanger. I'd sit down with my computer and then, just lose interest. Fantastic unit though, no doubt. As I said above, learn the manual and learn the unit. Use the Fractal forums, once you get it down you might not ever need to get anything else as long as they continue to support it with updates etc...
 
Tested a cheap Digitech and Vox unit today and yeah they sounded as cheap as they are. I'm most likely going to get the BOSS GT-100 as that worked so well, thanks to everyone for good info regardless.
 
Thunkful":1243f2x3 said:
Tested a cheap Digitech and Vox unit today and yeah they sounded as cheap as they are. I'm most likely going to get the BOSS GT-100 as that worked so well, thanks to everyone for good info regardless.

If you are patient and searchy, you can get a Lexicon PCM80 for that money... which sounds light years better than anything mentioned here, let alone the Boss.
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventi ... 1-91_2.asp
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventi ... -81-91.asp
 
italoop":4ksgp9nb said:
Thunkful":4ksgp9nb said:
Tested a cheap Digitech and Vox unit today and yeah they sounded as cheap as they are. I'm most likely going to get the BOSS GT-100 as that worked so well, thanks to everyone for good info regardless.

If you are patient and searchy, you can get a Lexicon PCM80 for that money... which sounds light years better than anything mentioned here, let alone the Boss.
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventi ... 1-91_2.asp
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventi ... -81-91.asp

I've never tried a Lexicon unit in person but what i've listened from the clips i thought that the reverbs lack a bit of warmth imo.
 
Thunkful":3bf81hn6 said:
italoop":3bf81hn6 said:
Thunkful":3bf81hn6 said:
Tested a cheap Digitech and Vox unit today and yeah they sounded as cheap as they are. I'm most likely going to get the BOSS GT-100 as that worked so well, thanks to everyone for good info regardless.

If you are patient and searchy, you can get a Lexicon PCM80 for that money... which sounds light years better than anything mentioned here, let alone the Boss.
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventi ... 1-91_2.asp
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventi ... -81-91.asp

I've never tried a Lexicon unit in person but what i've listened from the clips i thought that the reverbs lack a bit of warmth imo.


Well...
then 90% of all recordings done since 1978 with reverb on them "lack a bit of warmth".
You know... there's an EDIT key... you press it, navigate the matrix, find the Rvb Hicut and set it wherever you want.
Or there's another filter, depending on which unit it is, where you can set the overall preset high frequency cut.
You even have a CrossOver to set the split point between low and mid frequencies and set reverb decays separately, being the low decay a multiplier of the other...
But... if there was *ever* a criticism to Lexicon reverb done by any "who's who" in the music industry... it was never about warmth lack, actually it was the opposite... too midrangey sounding for some clinical recordings like piano and orchestra, when using room size reverb.

It occurred to me....
how did you listen to those clips? Name what did you use. Streaming?
Thanks.
 
If you like warmth, and you feel the Rocktron units have it then going to a Lex MPX 1 or a Roland SDE 3000 will be a 4 alarm fire lol. My Intellifex is a great unit, but has little to no color whatsoever.
Moving up to a PCM 80 for about 500 used will be a goal at some point for me...and guys that have them swear by the jump from the MPX 1 being worth it.
 
Racerxrated":yaj5puij said:
If you like warmth, and you feel the Rocktron units have it then going to a Lex MPX 1 or a Roland SDE 3000 will be a 4 alarm fire lol. My Intellifex is a great unit, but has little to no color whatsoever.
Moving up to a PCM 80 for about 500 used will be a goal at some point for me...and guys that have them swear by the jump from the MPX 1 being worth it.


Exactly!
I used an Intelliverb for a while in the mid '90s.... boy, it was the coldest sounding thing I ever had. And that was Rocktron's flagship unit. Then I moved to a PCM70... unbelievable tones!
MPX1 is ok but it's not a PCM.
The MPX reverbs, no matter the name of the algorithm names, are derived from the PCM80 Chamber, so anything Hall/Plate/Chamber there is always a chamber... without modulation.
The classic Concert Hall isn't on the MPX.... that alone os worth getting the PCM.
I do have an MPX1, an MPX-G2, a PCM80, a PCM81... being all nice but the 80 and 81 are far better.... and also a Lexicon 300, the 480 sister unit. A monster unit with some of the best reverbs ever made.
But that's another story...
Enjoy its reverbs:



 
italoop":1a7zf14b said:
Thunkful":1a7zf14b said:
italoop":1a7zf14b said:
Thunkful":1a7zf14b said:
Tested a cheap Digitech and Vox unit today and yeah they sounded as cheap as they are. I'm most likely going to get the BOSS GT-100 as that worked so well, thanks to everyone for good info regardless.

If you are patient and searchy, you can get a Lexicon PCM80 for that money... which sounds light years better than anything mentioned here, let alone the Boss.
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventi ... 1-91_2.asp
http://www.italodeangelis.com/it/eventi ... -81-91.asp

I've never tried a Lexicon unit in person but what i've listened from the clips i thought that the reverbs lack a bit of warmth imo.


Well...
then 90% of all recordings done since 1978 with reverb on them "lack a bit of warmth".
You know... there's an EDIT key... you press it, navigate the matrix, find the Rvb Hicut and set it wherever you want.
Or there's another filter, depending on which unit it is, where you can set the overall preset high frequency cut.
You even have a CrossOver to set the split point between low and mid frequencies and set reverb decays separately, being the low decay a multiplier of the other...
But... if there was *ever* a criticism to Lexicon reverb done by any "who's who" in the music industry... it was never about warmth lack, actually it was the opposite... too midrangey sounding for some clinical recordings like piano and orchestra, when using room size reverb.

It occurred to me....
how did you listen to those clips? Name what did you use. Streaming?
Thanks.

Here's few of the clips that i've listened.





And i have JBL studio speakers that i've listened these clips with. Ofc the way these videos were recorded might affect the sound, but they really are the only source for me right now.

So if i got it right, if i want a lexicon unit, i should go with the PCM ones and not anything else? What about the Roland SDE 300 that's been mentioned here few times?
 
Truth is that if you base your knowledge on YouTube videos or streaming MP3s... you're never going to know anything about sound.
YouTube does horrible compression on audio and MP3s are crap. Period.
Those are the reasons why I post downloadable high resolution files of my audioclips on my website. The hope is people download them and listen on a good audio setup, not computer speakers or cheap headphones.
There you get to hear the real sound.
As for the videos you posted... shnobel demos are horrible! You do not demo a PCM80 in mono. Algorithms are true stereo I/O and should used in that way. Same for the strymon. He often strings devices in series which makes things even worst... plus you do not connect a guitar to a studio fx processor. Just wrong way to demo gear without knowledge of the required voltages to run audio.
The only decent product there are the plugins... but real time processing remains a better way to go... the Valhalla stuff is seriously Lexicon based.

I suggest you go for a Lexicon PCM depending on:
-what you exactly need from an fx processor.... quality over quantity of fx
-you run a stereo system
-you run the processor at line levels, +4dBu, that is after a preamp signal... not connecting a guitar directly to it
if you don't fit those points... don't... you will need to grow and understand why things are different and how audio requirements work in making sound and tone better with the proper voltages.

I owned the Roland SDE3000, back in the late '80s. This is what was mentioned in the early posts.
It was a nice 12 bit mono delay. Character. It has a tendency to develop problems in the power transformer... so after so many years it may be a risky unit. If you get a PCM... delays of god are on it.
I suggest you read its manual and get the picture os things. Pay attention to the algorithms drawings. That's where THE magic IS!
Here:
https://lexiconpro.com/en-US/products/pcm80
 
The one thing I will add is, if you are a gigging player then you have to consider 'ease of use' on stage. Now, I used my Intellifex for years and it is designed for guitar and worked great. Quick patch changes with no latency. If you go Lexicon you have to get the MPX R1 foot controller, Italo correct me if I'm wrong. The MPX 1 has a delay in patch changing which is annoying if you are playing out. Doesn't bother me as I'm a home player now, after 30 yrs gigging it was time lol. The Roland SDE 3000 can be either on or bypassed with a pedal, but no patch changing. These were new back in 83 or so, limited in flexibility.
You can find 3000s for 200 or so, the MPX 1 for 150. I feel both have a different color to them and using one for delay and the other for reverb/chorus works well.
The PCM stuff I see from 300(PCM 60) on up, the PCM 80 is the one I'm aiming for at some point and can be had for 500 on up.
 
You can use any MIDI controller with the Lexicons. MIDI is a standard. The R1 was designed to make things easier with the MPX series as you can have the switches work for on/off of the single effects.
PCMs work in a different way as they don't use fx blocks. They are not designed as gtr stomps stringed in a signal route. You have to control voices and reverb levels to do on/off of them.
Lexi gear has always been slow at changing presets but there are reasons for that. QUALITY! Processor use all its power for what you load, without computing fx you are not using... so what you load sounds better.
BUT... there's no need to chnge presets all the time as one can use MIDI to turn them on/oof and to change the way they sound.... if you need a slow chorus with a lot of delay and a huge reverb, then a fast chorus with less delay and a shorter reverb... use MIDI CCs to control their parameters instead of changing preets.... that's he way people have been using the slow monsters for ages.... keep audio quality at top notch and work smart around the control. "Gtr designed" units never sounded great.
 
I still have a Yamaha REV7 in a rack of old crap in my storage unit. A classic piece of 80s studio gear. Can be found cheap as hell on ebay,if you have the rack space for it.

The lexicon pcm80 is another great classic.
 
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