Bogner Helios vs Helios Eclipse

skoora

skoora

Well-known member
Has anyone had a chance to compare the two. Curious if the Eclipse can still do the original Helios tones or is something sacrificed towards attaining the Eclipse voicing. Really dig the Helios but a higher gain version that could do the original tones too sounds pretty good.
 
Here are 2 posts I made over at TGP about the Helios/Eclipse:

I have had both the original 50 watt as well as the 100. Currently have the original 100 watt and the Eclipse.

The Helios is an exceptional amp *for what it is designed to be*. The complaints that you see from people are in wanting it to be something it is not. It is not a 2 channel amp that lets you switch from a pristine Fender/Marshall/etc clean to a high gain M style amp. It has 2 inputs that allow you 2 VERY different voicings. But they do not overlap.

Having said that, if you have played early Marshalls (original or modded), you will enjoy this amp. It is more flexible and has a greater feature set. The Plex input is just that, a Plexi style circuit. You won't get the Hot input tone from the Plex input. For my needs, Hot input, gain 2-3:00 and roll the volume down for clean. You're not going to get modern levels of gain out of the amp, regardless of the gain setting without an external boost or drive. Think 1967 - 1987.

The Eclipse addressed some of the early complaints about the Helios. It has a slightly quieter loop and and 2 dedicated gain channels along with a simple clean. Channel 2 will approximate the Helios Hot input but it is not the same. It's hotter and a bit smoother in the Hot 70's setting. The gain and compression goes up from there (80's/Eclipse settings). I find the Hot settings on channels 2/3 are plenty of gain for me. Eclipse mode is just way over the top. With the Gain control rolled down, you get closer to the Hot setting but the tone/feel is not the same. You do lose the Plex input on this amp. If you love the Plex setting from the original Helios, stick with that amp.

One other comparison - The Helios (either version) doesn't sound like a BE100 or SB50. With the Structure switch on the BE100, it is closer to the regular Helios but the Helios is still more raw.

YMMV....

Eclipse & Eclipse + add a s*^tload more gain. It still lies in the same tonal space as 70's/80's mode but is more compressed. I go for a more open sound, so I don't use them. The Eclipse mode gain down below 11:30 is somewhat workable.

The amp was a step up for me because I needed a true clean channel and a "lead" channel which the 3rd channel affords. You can use ch2 as your main rhythm and then just build on that for leads with ch3. Add the same gain levels, Ch3 in 70s will add a bit more gain and compression with the added ability to increase volume for solos. So it is a true 3 channel amp.

The noise floor on the Eclipse loop is a bit better as well. But the loop is optimized for pedal levels.
 
I like how raw and dynamic the Helios is and I’m cautious that the Eclipse loses some of that for the sake of more gain. It could be the Helios and then using a pedal for the OTT tones is the way to go. I do though like the idea of a 2nd Master and gain so you don’t have to sacrifice the loop as a lead boost like on the Helios.
 
memberzonly":2l72zjg1 said:
Here are 2 posts I made over at TGP about the Helios/Eclipse:

I have had both the original 50 watt as well as the 100. Currently have the original 100 watt and the Eclipse.

The Helios is an exceptional amp *for what it is designed to be*. The complaints that you see from people are in wanting it to be something it is not. It is not a 2 channel amp that lets you switch from a pristine Fender/Marshall/etc clean to a high gain M style amp. It has 2 inputs that allow you 2 VERY different voicings. But they do not overlap.

Having said that, if you have played early Marshalls (original or modded), you will enjoy this amp. It is more flexible and has a greater feature set. The Plex input is just that, a Plexi style circuit. You won't get the Hot input tone from the Plex input. For my needs, Hot input, gain 2-3:00 and roll the volume down for clean. You're not going to get modern levels of gain out of the amp, regardless of the gain setting without an external boost or drive. Think 1967 - 1987.

The Eclipse addressed some of the early complaints about the Helios. It has a slightly quieter loop and and 2 dedicated gain channels along with a simple clean. Channel 2 will approximate the Helios Hot input but it is not the same. It's hotter and a bit smoother in the Hot 70's setting. The gain and compression goes up from there (80's/Eclipse settings). I find the Hot settings on channels 2/3 are plenty of gain for me. Eclipse mode is just way over the top. With the Gain control rolled down, you get closer to the Hot setting but the tone/feel is not the same. You do lose the Plex input on this amp. If you love the Plex setting from the original Helios, stick with that amp.

One other comparison - The Helios (either version) doesn't sound like a BE100 or SB50. With the Structure switch on the BE100, it is closer to the regular Helios but the Helios is still more raw.

YMMV....

Eclipse & Eclipse + add a s*^tload more gain. It still lies in the same tonal space as 70's/80's mode but is more compressed. I go for a more open sound, so I don't use them. The Eclipse mode gain down below 11:30 is somewhat workable.

The amp was a step up for me because I needed a true clean channel and a "lead" channel which the 3rd channel affords. You can use ch2 as your main rhythm and then just build on that for leads with ch3. Add the same gain levels, Ch3 in 70s will add a bit more gain and compression with the added ability to increase volume for solos. So it is a true 3 channel amp.

The noise floor on the Eclipse loop is a bit better as well. But the loop is optimized for pedal levels.
Click to expand...
This is the best post I've seen yet on the Helios. A ton of shit I had no idea about is now fairly clear. The Eclipse may be more to my liking but I am still on the fence. Sounds like it got into the 2 channel amp with tons of options. I take it the Eclipse is turret board as is the Helios. I need to play one to know what I am missing after this post. Thanks!
 
I own the Eclipse and although I haven't owned the Helios I have had other marshall style amps like it. I think that review / comparison above by Memberzonly is spot on.

In general the Eclipse is one of my fav amps I've had . I play mostly hard rock to metal and it does that stuff great. It has a nice balance of attack and bite but yet still smooth organic with that sweet bogner chewiness ! Yum yum .
 
One other thing to add. Tube functions:

Clean/Ch2/Ch3 - V1
Ch2/Ch3 - V3
80's mode: Diodes
Eclipse mode - V2/V3
Eclipse + mode - Diodes + V2/V3
 
Tube rolling in my Eclipse made a BIG difference. Power tubes too ...I have KT77s in mine now that I like a little more than EL34s, scales the mids back a little and gives it a thick punchy bass. To each his own on tubes though, nice to experiment if you can.
 
the4thlast1":1qsrotse said:
Tube rolling in my Eclipse made a BIG difference. Power tubes too ...I have KT77s in mine now that I like a little more than EL34s, scales the mids back a little and gives it a thick punchy bass. To each his own on tubes though, nice to experiment if you can.
Click to expand...

What have you tried/liked in the pre slots?
 
I have a mix of JJ, EH and possibly one Chinese I forget

The JJ s are dark and smooth

The EH are bright and tight on the lows, (great sounding preamp tube that is often overlooked)

Chinese have a angry bark in the mids.

I have Gold Lion KT77s in the power section which work great in the Eclipse. The TAD EL34s also sound good in there for a fat lowend .
 
A more direct question about the Eclipse. Can it dial in the same as Hot input, 70’s mode on the Helios?
 
memberzonly":36mqki7j said:
Here are 2 posts I made over at TGP about the Helios/Eclipse:

I have had both the original 50 watt as well as the 100. Currently have the original 100 watt and the Eclipse.

The Helios is an exceptional amp *for what it is designed to be*. The complaints that you see from people are in wanting it to be something it is not. It is not a 2 channel amp that lets you switch from a pristine Fender/Marshall/etc clean to a high gain M style amp. It has 2 inputs that allow you 2 VERY different voicings. But they do not overlap.

Having said that, if you have played early Marshalls (original or modded), you will enjoy this amp. It is more flexible and has a greater feature set. The Plex input is just that, a Plexi style circuit. You won't get the Hot input tone from the Plex input. For my needs, Hot input, gain 2-3:00 and roll the volume down for clean. You're not going to get modern levels of gain out of the amp, regardless of the gain setting without an external boost or drive. Think 1967 - 1987.

The Eclipse addressed some of the early complaints about the Helios. It has a slightly quieter loop and and 2 dedicated gain channels along with a simple clean. Channel 2 will approximate the Helios Hot input but it is not the same. It's hotter and a bit smoother in the Hot 70's setting. The gain and compression goes up from there (80's/Eclipse settings). I find the Hot settings on channels 2/3 are plenty of gain for me. Eclipse mode is just way over the top. With the Gain control rolled down, you get closer to the Hot setting but the tone/feel is not the same. You do lose the Plex input on this amp. If you love the Plex setting from the original Helios, stick with that amp.

One other comparison - The Helios (either version) doesn't sound like a BE100 or SB50. With the Structure switch on the BE100, it is closer to the regular Helios but the Helios is still more raw.

YMMV....

Eclipse & Eclipse + add a s*^tload more gain. It still lies in the same tonal space as 70's/80's mode but is more compressed. I go for a more open sound, so I don't use them. The Eclipse mode gain down below 11:30 is somewhat workable.

The amp was a step up for me because I needed a true clean channel and a "lead" channel which the 3rd channel affords. You can use ch2 as your main rhythm and then just build on that for leads with ch3. Add the same gain levels, Ch3 in 70s will add a bit more gain and compression with the added ability to increase volume for solos. So it is a true 3 channel amp.

The noise floor on the Eclipse loop is a bit better as well. But the loop is optimized for pedal levels.
Click to expand...
Outstanding post...I was just wondering about these two amps, and the first thread I read has every question I wanted to know addressed. Thank you sir.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top